McShay: 2015 NFL Mock Draft 2.0

lounap23

Legend
Jet Fanatics
honestly i wouldn't be swayed one way or the other if oregon went 32-0 over the last two seasons.. it's college football.. whatever you want to call what mariota ran at oregon it wasn't a traditional pro style offense.. i would rather take a flyer on a guy like bryce petty in the middle rounds than one on mariota with the 6th pick..

I wasn't referring to Oregon... I was referring to the Philadelphia Eagles... an NFL team that is winning in that offense with QBS that aren't built for that system..

My reference to Urban Meyer and Spurrier were supporting your college gimmick offense reference cause they run the gimmick spread offense that won't fly in the NFL.
 
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flgreen

Guest
I thought it was going to be another hatchet job on the kid, but it actually was a good article. For those of you who are like me and don't like clinking on links, here's the article. It's worth reading




Jason La Canfora
CBS Sports NFL Insider




2015 NFL Draft: Combine will be hell for Jameis Winston, but he will rise

February 13, 2015 12:14 pm ET

Come with me while I gaze into a crystal ball. I'm about to glimpse the future. Only it's a story, sadly, from the past, that will be retold. For some things never really change, especially when it comes to the odious pre-draft process in the NFL, which often remains a slog through negativity, a slow trudge through the lowest-common denominator of anonymous character assassinations of 20-year old kids and thinly-veiled racism.

It's an ugly ride, for sure, but one that we'll all be a party to, at least to some degree, with the NFL combine now just a few days away and the inevitable circus of questions and cameras and inquiries about to begin. Jameis Winston, to be sure, will be at the center of all of this -- a human target, unfortunately about to be flogged by scouts and quasi-scouts and Internet-wannabe-scouts and Twitter-scouts -- and someone who undoubtedly brought this inquisition upon himself at least to some degree by getting entangled in various off-field situations.







But a kid, still, who just turned 21 last month, who will be a human pincushion the next few months as "adults" try to gain exposure or notoriety at his expense, and a kid who will be at the epicenter of the under-side of the big business that the pre-draft process has become. And, most importantly, he's a young man who, when all is said and done, will rise above.

But it will get worse before it gets better for Winston.

Soon enough, everyone will want a piece of him, the hordes of cameras and press at the combine, the teams interviewing him and asking uncomfortable questions of him in hotel suites in Indianapolis. It's part of the process, alas, but it can become quite unprofessional and fairly brutal all the way around. So let me clue you in on how it's going to go, because I believe there will be a silver lining, at the end, for Winston, though he will absorb much before then.

A week from now, the knives will be out. It will be like Cam Newton and Michael Sam and Johnny Manziel and Ryan Mallet and so many others who came before him in recent years. A tidal wave of humanity will try to follow Winston around Lucas Oil Stadium and he will be under intense scrutiny and it will be open season upon the young man. He will have little recourse to fight back and he will be caught up in the undertow of what is swirling around him. Every two-bit faux scout who ever lived will be able to find someone who claims to have known or scouted Winston to rip the kid and attack him on every level possible - mental, physical, spiritual, you name it.

That's how it goes in this pre-draft charade.









Next week in Indianapolis, and the few weeks to follow will be bad. Character assaults will be the norm and Winston's legal problems at Florida State and his high interception totals and him being suspended for the season opener will create a climate of anything goes. And, I believe, in the end, ultimately, hopefully, none of what is uttered or written by those on the periphery will amount to nothing much. So much of the crap that's slung around eventually gets peeled away, layer by layer, as the face-to-face elements of this process play out and owners get to know these players and deeper dives into their makeup and background get completed.

Then, eventually this spring, Winston will get through his pro day and he will start making individual visits to teams, and he will begin to create his own reality with these decisions makers, away from and beyond the scope of the petty low swings that will have been taken at him. And this is when he will shine.

Too many people who I know and trust who know him too well -- the real him; the behind-the-scenes him; the meeting-room him and the practice field him and the locker-room him -- have vouched for him for me to believe Winston is not a franchise-wrecker.

What he is, I've been told, is a driven leader, a gym rat, a football lover who has been steeped in an NFL-style offense. He reads defenses well and he's asked to run Jimbo Fisher's demanding pro style offense where nothing less than excellence is tolerated. And Fisher will be a tremendous advocate for him, and has already told any NFL type who asks exactly what he thinks of this kid and his ability to win games at the next level.




Jameis Winston has no bigger advocate than demanding Jimbo Fisher. (USATSI) Jameis Winston has no bigger advocate than demanding Jimbo Fisher. (Getty Images)




Winston has been a man among boys since the moment he got on campus -- someone who some in that program believe may have found a way to unseat an upper-classman EJ Manuel had the timing been different – and someone who has exuded the kind of performance, production, intangibles and perseverance that comes with a prospect worthy of being the first-overall pick in the draft.

He isn't perfect, far from it, but his potential and upside are startling, and he's the closest thing, by far, to a can't-miss quarterback in this draft, from what I hear.

He threw too many picks this season and made his share of mistakes. He is goofy and immature in some of the same ways that Newton was, but without the moodiness. His biggest distraction is, honestly, baseball, and a belief he could be a two-sport star. That might give some teams trepidation, but in the big picture, is a momentary blip, one that will be overcome once he gets in the huddle for the first time in a preseason game with the fortunes of an NFL franchise in his hands and men depending on him for their financial wherewithal surrounding him.

As coaches put Winston on the board, and make him diagram film and draw up plays and dissect opposing schemes and explain why he threw this ball there or that ball there, he will impress. He will be prepared, mentally and physically, for this challenge. As owners spend time having dinner with him in five-star restaurants and being around him socially, they will find that while he is young and far from fully polished, he is a kid they can relate to, one who has a certain charisma and gravitas to him, one who they are comfortable with.

Winston will begin to tell his own tale, create his own narrative as the boundary between amateur and professional becomes increasingly blurred, and he will rise in esteem. His film will show him to be better evolved and more pro-ready than anyone else playing his position in this limited quarterback draft class. He will look, as March turns to April and April turns to May, more and more like the consensus pick for the first-overall pick.

He will be, I strongly suspect, the player that Tampa Bay selects with that very selection, and one who, once off the board, makes Tennessee, with the second-overall pick, even more open to trading down rather than taking Marcus Mariota, Oregon's quarterback, with that spot.

Winston will rise and shine the deeper teams get into exploring what he is all about. He will look, more and more, the part. And he will have a strong rookie season with the Bucs, with some decent offensive talent around him, and he will save Lovie Smith's job and engender some positivity and hope in a franchise that has been fairly dormant for quite some time. (And we can debate whether or not the Bucs should use that first pick or even use it on a quarterback, but in the end, job security generally reigns and Smith knows that a promising rookie quarterback has bought many a coaching staff another year or two on the job even despite another losing season.)

Winston will rise above a process that so many will utilize to drag him down, and then a year from now, another glorified teenager will find himself in a similar scenario, the story of the combine, and it will all begin anew. And, I sincerely hope, in the end it will end up being more a function of the folly of those on the outside -- those jealous and jaded and jaundiced -- than a reflection of what decisions the teams and their executives will make when we eventually survive this early stage of the now-endless draft period and thankfully reach a point where players are walking to the stage and donning hats and jerseys.
 

njimport

5th Year Team Option
Jet Fanatics
Great article. A lot can happened between now and the draft. I honestly feel that Mac is going to look to trade with another team for a QB. We have to remember that he is a scout at heart and has scouted most of the QB’s under 27. I hope he finds a gem hidden somewhere like Wolf traded for Favre and the rest was history for Green Bay.
 
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GratefulJet

Guest
Great article. A lot can happened between now and the draft. I honestly feel that Mac is going to look to trade with another team for a QB. We have to remember that he is a scout at heart and has scouted most of the QB’s under 27. I hope he finds a gem hidden somewhere like Wolf traded for Favre and the rest was history for Green Bay.

That's more or less where I'm at as well. The draft doesn't seem to hold much promise for us at QB this year.
 

NickSINYC

Veteran
Jet Fanatics
Great article. A lot can happened between now and the draft. I honestly feel that Mac is going to look to trade with another team for a QB. We have to remember that he is a scout at heart and has scouted most of the QB’s under 27. I hope he finds a gem hidden somewhere like Wolf traded for Favre and the rest was history for Green Bay.

I am all for finding a young vet at this time. Foles is on top of my list.
 
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flgreen

Guest
That's more or less where I'm at as well. The draft doesn't seem to hold much promise for us at QB this year.


Think Mariota has a pretty good chance to fall to the Jets if some one doesn't trade up right in front of the Jets to get him
 
M

Matriculator

Guest
:hand-clapping-smile


Yep, exactly how I feel. Every wart told to us about Geno before we drafted him, is squarely on Mariotta as well. I feel the only difference is Mariotta will have a better 40 time. he may be an inch taller too, but in terms of what he's missing to be a franchise QB, mariotta is Geno Smith. People will say maybe he's smarter than Geno...show me how you measure that and dont tell me a wonderlic test...learning how to play QB all over again isn't covered on that test...

I'm with both of you which is why if we don't get one of those guys, I'm fine. I'm not at all sold on Mariota and while I am sold on Winston, he could be a disaster and besides that, it's moot as he's going to be a Buc. I'd much rather pass on Mariota and get a nice pick at #6 and if Philly, Houston, Chicago, or St Louis comes calling, I'm immediately picking up the phone.
 
M

Matriculator

Guest
Think Mariota has a pretty good chance to fall to the Jets if some one doesn't trade up right in front of the Jets to get him

With the Redskins at #5 , this is very possible especially with McCloughan in as new GM and with the notion that we are in need of a QB. The Jets better be prepared to make that pick with the very likelihood of Winston, Mariota and Cooper all off the board. Maybe this prevents the Jets from going after a pass rusher in FA. Lot of ways to look at this offseason.
 

Football51

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
Adam Schein questions Tampa's thinking heading into the draft and takes his shots at Jameis Winston. It looks like it's going to be a rough few months ahead for Winston. Hopefully he can bring some clarity to the many questions people have about his maturity. If he was there at #6 , I'd have to take him unless something really disturbing come out about him. I know that people bring up Manziel, but he has issues with alcohol which compound his maturity issues. I've never heard anything like that with Winston.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ston-in-draft?campaign=Twitter_writers_schein
 

SackExchange

Jet Fanatic
The Mod Squad
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
I'm with both of you which is why if we don't get one of those guys, I'm fine. I'm not at all sold on Mariota and while I am sold on Winston, he could be a disaster and besides that, it's moot as he's going to be a Buc. I'd much rather pass on Mariota and get a nice pick at #6 and if Philly, Houston, Chicago, or St Louis comes calling, I'm immediately picking up the phone.

I'm exactly the opposite. I'm sold on Mariota, but not on Winston. And it's not something I can state absolutely why. I just really don't like his throws. His decisions off the field concern me, as well, but it has more to do with me seeing him make bad throws repeatedly.

As for Mariota, I think he could be exactly like Geno, but with a better ability to read. Now, this is entirely speculative, as he has been in a system that has not required him to make reads. But his physical attributes are as good as Geno's, probably a bit better. Geno's biggest problem is his inability to make the reads and go through his progressions. The jury is still out as to whether Mariota can, but if he can, the Jets would be passing on a surefire franchise QB in the sixth spot.
 
M

Matriculator

Guest
I'm exactly the opposite. I'm sold on Mariota, but not on Winston. And it's not something I can state absolutely why. I just really don't like his throws. His decisions off the field concern me, as well, but it has more to do with me seeing him make bad throws repeatedly.

As for Mariota, I think he could be exactly like Geno, but with a better ability to read. Now, this is entirely speculative, as he has been in a system that has not required him to make reads. But his physical attributes are as good as Geno's, probably a bit better. Geno's biggest problem is his inability to make the reads and go through his progressions. The jury is still out as to whether Mariota can, but if he can, the Jets would be passing on a surefire franchise QB in the sixth spot.

Those are valid reasons. Winston has no conscience but he can make all the throws and will be able to step in from day one. If he goes number one in spite of all his issues, among which many have not gone public, you might want to look closer as to why him and not Mariota as top pick.

We've seen a lot of struggles from QB's coming from these college offenses and a few in the pros who can't seem to adapt to what NFL defenses are throwing them - I'm talking about RGIII, Geno and Kaep. Conversely, you see guys like Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr and until he got hurt, Mettenberger all progressing nicely as they hail from more pro-set offenses. A far bigger learning curve for Mariota.

As for Mariota over Geno, keep in mind that Geno accumulated a 42 TD to 6 INT ratio which was considered fantastic. It wasn't really, considering the offensive scheme masking all the mechanics he would need in the pros. I'd caution you from reading too much into the success these guys had in college (how many Heisman winners have flopped?).

We'll agree to disagree for now. Maybe Mariota wins me over yet.
 
J

JetBlack

Guest
Fortunately our new HC and front office aren't driven by emotions like most fans. They will evaluate Geno and bring in quality competition and have a real qb competition and let the best man win. I hate to break it to some of you but don't be surprised if after the smoke clears, Geno, coming into his third year and working with a OC known for helping sub par qbs excel, is starting in 2015.
 

Bigmoe

Happily Confused
The Mod Squad
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
I hate to break it to some of you but don't be surprised if after the smoke clears, Geno, coming into his third year and working with a OC known for helping sub par qbs excel, is starting in 2015.

Welcome on your 1st post
But I disagree
If Geno is starting come opening day plan on a shitstorm
No way does this new staff take a " chance " on the the worst QB of the last 2 years in the NFL to start their reign.
Been a fan and ticket holder of this team for more than 40 years and " hate to break it to you " but these last two with Geno rank at the bottom.
Yea, worse than he 70s and worse than Richie Kotite
If Geno's the starter it shows the new staff is as incompetent as the previous
 

SackExchange

Jet Fanatic
The Mod Squad
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Those are valid reasons. Winston has no conscience but he can make all the throws and will be able to step in from day one. If he goes number one in spite of all his issues, among which many have not gone public, you might want to look closer as to why him and not Mariota as top pick.

We've seen a lot of struggles from QB's coming from these college offenses and a few in the pros who can't seem to adapt to what NFL defenses are throwing them - I'm talking about RGIII, Geno and Kaep. Conversely, you see guys like Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr and until he got hurt, Mettenberger all progressing nicely as they hail from more pro-set offenses. A far bigger learning curve for Mariota.

As for Mariota over Geno, keep in mind that Geno accumulated a 42 TD to 6 INT ratio which was considered fantastic. It wasn't really, considering the offensive scheme masking all the mechanics he would need in the pros. I'd caution you from reading too much into the success these guys had in college (how many Heisman winners have flopped?).

We'll agree to disagree for now. Maybe Mariota wins me over yet.

You make some good points. And you are right about Heisman winner QBs who have done nothing in the NFL.

I am not ready to write off Mariota yet, because what others perceive as his biggest flaw, to me is undetermined. We have heard that the kid is smart, so hopefully he would be smart enough to adjust to a multi-read pro offense. But again, it's an unknown. What I have seen of him, I've liked.

And while some rave about Winston's arm, I have seen more awful throws from him than I would have expected from a legit QB in that offense.

Reasonable people can disagree, and do so amicably. This bodes quite well for the merging of our two communities.
 
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