Cromartie

[hobson54]

Umm, well, that immediately crosses the jets off the list...dude, the jets suck. maybe we wont next year, but no one knows about next year, so I am 100% sure the free agents look at this 4-12 team as a 4-12 team, aka, they suck.

Also, you think free agents WRs look at the Bears and say, "yes, I'm Torrey Smith and the bears have Jeffrey and marshall, who may be aging but still is going to start, and in my prime I want to sit behind those two until Marshall decides it's time to retire," or he says, "I can go start in Minnesota, play for Norv turner and a young upcoming QB, and make more money?" You think he picks the Bears in this scenario?

Dude, players want to play. No NFL starting CB is coming here to play nickel....you can think that if you want, but reality is, Maxwell is going from starting in Seattle and in the Super Bowl, to having to battle Milliner for a starting spot? Not going to happen. he's signing where he knows he's the man..not where he "might be the man." if you want to think that's possible, that's fine too...I'm just saying reality is, that is not how the scenario would play out.

well if the jets suck as much as you say (and the record speaks for itself, for better or worse), then we probably need to lower our FA expectations. unless we blow someone away with a crazy deal, why sign with the 4-12 jets when better teams will come calling? so you can want maxwell or jackson or franklin or a stud WR...but why exactly are they gonna come here?

as to your WR example, do you really think that's a like situation? are you comparing the threat to playing time posed by milliner and mcdougle to marshall and jeffrey???

 

[mykcuz]

Man that logic is out there

 

[SackExchange]

I don't understand your premise, maxwell Jackson would not be competing with Milner they would be guaranteed number 1's, and there's no way we're getting both. So the scenario is maxwell or Jackson 1,Cromartie 2,with 2nd year guys behind them.
Why are you so hung up on Milner? The guy can't play and won't be100%for another season. Nobody is coming here thinking, "I don't know, Milner might stay over me?" And comparing Milner to Brandon Marshall! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to insult you, but that's insane. Milner is a severely injured bust. He's a project at best, and maybe there's a20%chance he will recover, improve, and become a pro bowler.

When I say the team sucks I mean, maxwell looking at Milner and Mcdougle as our only cb's, vs them as reserves with cro at 2, and themselves becoming the 1.suddenly that's a great nfl defense combined with our d line.

Milliner doesn't need to be a Pro Bowler. There is a huge gray area between Pro Bowler and bust.

If he's healthy and can play at the level he played at when he finished his 2013 season (the last actual game action we have to judge him), he would be at worst a solid #2 CB across from a legit #1 . At worst.

So what is with all the "bust" talk? You have no idea if he's a bust, or what his health situation is.

 

[SackExchange]

well if the jets suck as much as you say (and the record speaks for itself, for better or worse), then we probably need to lower our FA expectations. unless we blow someone away with a crazy deal, why sign with the 4-12 jets when better teams will come calling? so you can want maxwell or jackson or franklin or a stud WR...but why exactly are they gonna come here?

as to your WR example, do you really think that's a like situation? are you comparing the threat to playing time posed by milliner and mcdougle to marshall and jeffrey???

No team can ever get better, I guess. If you have a bad year, that's it. Nobody will come to you. You will never get better, because no free agents will ever come to your team.

 

[hobson54]

No team can ever get better, I guess. If you have a bad year, that's it. Nobody will come to you. You will never get better, because no free agents will ever come to your team.

i'm sure we will be able to sign some players. but people should temper their expectations (not you, you are realistic) when making off-season wish lists that include the top CB (maxwell or jackson), the top G (franklin iupati), the top WR (dez or d thomas or maclin), the top OLB (houston or worldis), etc...

there are 32 teams in the nfl, most of which have more appealing rosters based on 2014. and while the jets have more cap space than most, other teams will be able to spend with the cap going up. and i'd rather not go redskins/cowboys/dolphins mode and buy up all the expensive toys, thinking our big wallet can buy long-term success.

 

[flgreen]

I recall Milliner finishing up very well in 2013, after a rough start. He was thrown into the fire, took his knocks, and played outstanding those final 3-4 games. I'm not counting him out by any means. I think he's gonna be a good one.

But the injury to the Achilles is nonetheless a concern. He has to bounce back from that first.

Milliner played 12 games his rookie season where he played poorly. Got benched a few times for JAG CB's. If he wasn't an early 1st round pick that probably would have been the end of him for the year.

Milliner had 3-4 games at the end of the 2013 season where he looked OK. Gave us some hope. Then he came into camp last year, and was being out played by a 3rd round pick. I remember reading he was being beaten on a daily basis by none other then Stephen Hill. I was thinking at the time that maybe Hill had finally turned the page. We all know how that turned out.

Not saying that Milliner is for sure a bust, I hope he's the next Revis, but things aren't looking good for him right now. No way the Jets can look at him, and say "He's our #1 guy, we only need 1 CB". That's what Idzik did, and one of the main reasons he is unemployed right now.

 

[mykcuz]

Milliner doesn't need to be a Pro Bowler. There is a huge gray area between Pro Bowler and bust.

If he's healthy and can play at the level he played at when he finished his 2013 season (the last actual game action we have to judge him), he would be at worst a solid #2 CB across from a legit #1 . At worst.

So what is with all the "bust" talk? You have no idea if he's a bust, or what his health situation is.

Yes I understand, maybe you should read what I was responding to to have context. In my opinion, Milner was terrible. Those last few games Milner was trying to keep his roster spot against opponents who had thrown in the towel. You can't base a future talent level on an abarition that lasted 3 Games. I'm not saying he's done, I'm saying at the least he has a lot to learn and now he has to over come a major injury before he is able to start improving his craft. And now he's entering injury prone territory. That's a lot to be concerned over.

But you can't sit there and say maxwell is going to refuse the jets because we have an injured cb who played 3 decent games in his career?
And let's be clear about Cromartie, I see him coming off a pro bowl reserve season after his hip injury. I see him making close to 3 million a year and being our starter at number 2 for one year, beyond that I would hope a younger guy takes over. That gives you a pro bowler in fa, a near pro bowl stop gap with familiarity to the team and system/coach who's a great locker room guy, and young guys with a chance to move up god willing. And should a young guy bump Cromartie, he's only making 3-4 million, so it doesn't come back to haunt you. I would offer Cromartie a3 year deal with 1 year gauranteed and 2 team option years.

 

[Superman55]

No team can ever get better, I guess. If you have a bad year, that's it. Nobody will come to you. You will never get better, because no free agents will ever come to your team.

Well, in 2013 the Jags finished the year with $39 mill cap space unspent, in 2014 they finished the year with $27 mill unspent, they head into free agency with $62 to spend this year...

I dont think players are beating their doors down to come there. i could be wrong, but somehow the Pats and Broncos signed every free agent last year and the Jags and their $40 mill to spend didnt find many takers, is all I am saying.

The Jets have $49 mill to spend on free agents...we could outspend everyone to land them; but truth is,

Jags have $62 to spend
Raiders have $52
Browns have $51
Jets have $49
Bengals $35
Colts $33
Bears $27
Broncos $26
Bucs $25
Chargers $25
Packers $24
Seattle $23
Eagles $19

...free agents have some teams with big cap numbers, and those teams in bold are a little more sexy than the 4-12 jets. You may not think so...but some players may like to join those teams over ours.

Im not comparing Milliner to Marshall, but if Peyton Manning was cut today, I don't think he'd look to sign with the Vikings because they have their young QB in progress. is he better than bridgewater, sure..but i dont think he goes there.

if the jets sign Cro...I think you draft a CB high to compete with Milliner, you don't assume after 16 total games of the #9 overall pick, it's time to replace him with Maxwell or Jackson because Milliner has no future...seems short sited, even for a new GM with no chips on the table as it applies to Milliner.

 

[Football51]

i'm sure we will be able to sign some players. but people should temper their expectations (not you, you are realistic) when making off-season wish lists that include the top CB (maxwell or jackson), the top G (franklin iupati), the top WR (dez or d thomas or maclin), the top OLB (houston or worldis), etc...

there are 32 teams in the nfl, most of which have more appealing rosters based on 2014. and while the jets have more cap space than most, other teams will be able to spend with the cap going up. and i'd rather not go redskins/cowboys/dolphins mode and buy up all the expensive toys, thinking our big wallet can buy long-term success.

The "Not Happening List".



http://turnonthejets.com/2015/02/new-york-jets-not-happening-list/

 

[Superman55]

Yes I understand, maybe you should read what I was responding to to have context. In my opinion, Milner was terrible. Those last few games Milner was trying to keep his roster spot against opponents who had thrown in the towel. You can't base a future talent level on an abarition that lasted 3 Games. I'm not saying he's done, I'm saying at the least he has a lot to learn and now he has to over come a major injury before he is able to start improving his craft. And now he's entering injury prone territory. That's a lot to be concerned over.

But you can't sit there and say maxwell is going to refuse the jets because we have an injured cb who played 3 decent games in his career?

As a GM that inherited that player, do you move on from the #9 overall pick after 16 career games played because he only played like the best CB in football for 3 of them?..or do you look at a sample size of 16 and say he showed for 3 of them that he can be a top 5 CB and see if the new coaching staff can get that level of play out of him consistently...with your head coach being a former NFL DB...scenario two seems more likely to me.

 

[McJet]

We're not talking about a high ankle sprain here, it's an Achilles. In most cases worst then a knee. For a skill position player that is pretty pessimistic. Certainly not saying that it means his career is over, just that at best an Achilles takes two seasons to get to 100%.

He wasn't playing real well before the injury. He may be on the Pro Bowl team in 2016, but for 2015 you can't COUNT on him for anything

I don't think Milner was healthy at all last year. I think Rex put him out there too soon from his injured knee. Anyone could see that when he was chasing Jordy Nelson in the Packers game, he wasn't close to 100%. The Jets being in the CB hole they were in, Ryan put in a not fully healthy Milner. I think the strain of playing on a bad knee is what actually caused Milners achilles to snap.
That being said, you're right. You cannot count on Milner going into this season rehabbing from that type of injury. If he's a fast healer and can actually provide some good CB play then that will be a bonus for Bowles going forward. Right now you can't put your eggs in his basket.

 

[Superman55]

The "Not Happening List".



http://turnonthejets.com/2015/02/new-york-jets-not-happening-list/

Im still hoping Houston hits the market...I had to update the probability myself: :smiley-score008:

 

[mykcuz]

Well, in 2013 the Jags finished the year with $39 mill cap space unspent, in 2014 they finished the year with $27 mill unspent, they head into free agency with $62 to spend this year...

I dont think players are beating their doors down to come there. i could be wrong, but somehow the Pats and Broncos signed every free agent last year and the Jags and their $40 mill to spend didnt find many takers, is all I am saying.

The Jets have $49 mill to spend on free agents...we could outspend everyone to land them; but truth is,

Jags have $62 to spend
Raiders have $52
Browns have $51
Jets have $49
Bengals $35
Colts $33
Bears $27
Broncos $26
Bucs $25
Chargers $25
Packers $24
Seattle $23
Eagles $19

...free agents have some teams with big cap numbers, and those teams in bold are a little more sexy than the 4-12 jets. You may not think so...but some players may like to join those teams over ours.

Im not comparing Milliner to Marshall, but if Peyton Manning was cut today, I don't think he'd look to sign with the Vikings because they have their young QB in progress. is he better than bridgewater, sure..but i dont think he goes there.

if the jets sign Cro...I think you draft a CB high to compete with Milliner, you don't assume after 16 total games of the #9 overall pick, it's time to replace him with Maxwell or Jackson because Milliner has no future...seems short sited, even for a new GM with no chips on the table as it applies to Milliner.

You're out there man, Milner is not even comparable to Bridgewater. You aren't comprehending what I'm saying, ill assume it's because I'm on a cell phone app.
I'm glad Milner showed a glimpse, right before shedding his Achilles, something he may never recover fully from. I hope he's lights out this year, in which case he would be starting 1b across from a pro bowl fa if we ate that lucky, with cro backing up. Worst case scenario a maxwell type starts across from Cromartie with Milner rehabbing/learning, and we actually have some depth. Without depth at cb you're toast.

In conclusion, I'm not declaring Milner dead, I'm saying as a gm, you have to prepare for reality. Milner is not our anointed number 1 cb, he was drafted in hopes of being our cb of the future, something that he has not earned YET!
And his being on the roster is not making anyone wiggly in the knees,a maxwell type would be complimented by a healthy Milner, especially when your coach is Bowles.

 

[mykcuz]

I don't think Milner was healthy at all last year. I think Rex put him out there too soon from his injured knee. Anyone could see that when he was chasing Jordy Nelson in the Packers game, he wasn't close to 100%. The Jets being in the CB hole they were in, Ryan put in a not fully healthy Milner. I think the strain of playing on a bad knee is what actually caused Milners achilles to snap.
That being said, you're right. You cannot count on Milner going into this season rehabbing from that type of injury. If he's a fast healer and can actually provide some good CB play then that will be a bonus for Bowles going forward. Right now you can't put your eggs in his basket.

Exactly my point

 

[mykcuz]

The "Not Happening List".



http://turnonthejets.com/2015/02/new-york-jets-not-happening-list/

Just because some writer posts it doesn't mean it's true. However I agree with every player except suh. Last year he got in trouble for having a friend and also insinuating that he wants to be in the nyc market, and honestly we have more cap than the Giants, also it doesn't fit the Giants mo. We can afford 14-15 to put suh between mo and Richardson with snacks backing up, and coples is not getting big money anywhere. Combine that with Cromartie and a maxwell type cb,and you have the best d in the league with depth. Harris will make less this year than last, pace will make veteran minimum as insurance if our young lbs don't develop. Combine that with important role player signings, and a punchers chance at marriota, and a reduced contact for Harvin or signing his replacement while drafting o line, qb,and wr. I would be happy as a pig in shit .

 

[Football51]

Just because some writer posts it doesn't mean it's true. However I agree with every player except suh. Last year he got in trouble for having a friend and also insinuating that he wants to be in the nyc market, and honestly we have more cap than the Giants, also it doesn't fit the Giants mo. We can afford 14-15 to put suh between mo and Richardson with snacks backing up, and coples is not getting big money anywhere. Combine that with Cromartie and a maxwell type cb,and you have the best d in the league with depth. Harris will make less this year than last, pace will make veteran minimum as insurance if our young lbs don't develop. Combine that with important role player signings, and a punchers chance at marriota, and a reduced contact for Harvin or signing his replacement while drafting o line, qb,and wr. I would be happy as a pig in shit .

Don't see Suh as a fit for 3-4 NT between Wilk & Sheldon. Suh is a three technique who could play the five technique if he had to. He would be wasted as a NT in a 3-4. Not to mention in your scenario, all three defensive lineman would be making $10+ mil per season in a couple of years. That's not a wise allotment of cap dollars. In our 3-4, Snacks is perfect at NT. He's a two down run stuffer who is young and can be resigned at a reasonable cost. Suh makes no sense for the Jets IMO.

 

[flgreen]

I don't think Milner was healthy at all last year. I think Rex put him out there too soon from his injured knee. Anyone could see that when he was chasing Jordy Nelson in the Packers game, he wasn't close to 100%. The Jets being in the CB hole they were in, Ryan put in a not fully healthy Milner. I think the strain of playing on a bad knee is what actually caused Milners achilles to snap.
That being said, you're right. You cannot count on Milner going into this season rehabbing from that type of injury. If he's a fast healer and can actually provide some good CB play then that will be a bonus for Bowles going forward. Right now you can't put your eggs in his basket.

Not arguing with you, but I think this is Milliner's 4th surgery. He had 3 during the offseason in college. Not sure he has ever been not hurt.

It was in all likely hood a bad pick that early. I hope he turns into a good player, but odds are he is always going to be banged up.

Not time to move on yet, but it's time to not depend on him

 

[NickSINYC]

It has to be for a cheap deal, and it has to be after the big names have already landed. I do not want Cromartie to be the "big upgrade" to the CBs this team makes.

I agree I want one of the big names but I have no problem signing him 1st right away if that is what Bowles wants. Signing him fast might actually help bringing in of of the big names. I think we can use 2 CBs.

 

[NickSINYC]

I think we'll add two corners this offseason Jackson or Maxwell and Cro. In regards to Cro, I'd offer him a one year deal(two max). His hip issue is reportedly chronic. It could be fine the whole year like it was in 2014, or it could act up in the preseason like it did in 2013, and he'd be useless for the season. I believe the hip is the real reason why he wasn't brought back for the 2014 season. He's shown a lot of maturity and leadership in recent years and obviously never wanted to leave. He needs to be used as a "bridge" player to developing, drafted talent.

Well said and with his knowledge of Bowles system he would be another coach on the field.

 

[Superman55]

I agree I want one of the big names but I have no problem signing him 1st right away if that is what Bowles wants. Signing him fast might actually help bringing in of of the big names. I think we can use 2 CBs.

I think we need 2 CBs, but I think we need to sign one and draft one high. I'd be okay with Co and the team drafting Rollins.