I can go with this. This is a very fair and unbiased statement.
Veteran WR's being rumored to be talking to the Jets !!
- Thread starter NYJDraftKing
- Start date
Im with you, I see no reason to bring in a vet unless management is having issues with kerley. Blindside on another thread, or maybe earlier in this thread before the geno debate, pointed out we have 3 young Wrs form last year carrying over...and we'll likely bring some more to camp one way or another (draft or UDFAs)...I like the 4-5 Wrs playing special teams, so I hope we dont bring in Jennings, Shorts, or any other on their last leg WRs...Short got beat out by 3 rookies last year, not interested in even him (again, unless its to replace Kerley because they think he's better). I doubt shorts plays special teams but someone can correct me if they know his game better.
I would sign on for Stevie Johnson for a reasonable contract in a NY second. I think he could be very effective working from the slot with the two big WR's on the edge.
He may not be in his heyday with the Bills but he quietly had an excellent year last season with the 49ers. He caught 35 out of 50 targets for a fantastic 70% efficiency mark. It wasn't his fault the niners were a mess and he didn't get more targets. Playing with a team with a competent passing game, it's not a stretch to say he would be still be a 1,000 yard guy.
He may not be in his heyday with the Bills but he quietly had an excellent year last season with the 49ers. He caught 35 out of 50 targets for a fantastic 70% efficiency mark. It wasn't his fault the niners were a mess and he didn't get more targets. Playing with a team with a competent passing game, it's not a stretch to say he would be still be a 1,000 yard guy.
It's just one less need going into the draft when you can fill these spots with proven FA's. It's really setting up for our 1st round pick to be either Mariota, Beasley, or Gregory. If I were doing the v-betting, that would be where the smart money is.
i wouldn't take a WR in the 1st because of need. i would consider taking a WR like cooper or white in the 1st because they are excellent players who will help the franchise over the long-term.
now i'm not saying to take a WR over a pass rusher. i'm also not arguing the contrary. just that to me, a WR should very much be in the discussion with the #6 pick given the high-end talent at the position available this year. realistically, marshall is a 2-3 year player for the jets. taking a guy like cooper and having a WR corps of marshall, decker, cooper and kerley would give our WR (whoever it is) weapons we've lacked in a long, long time. the draftee can slowly be worked into the lineup, and when guys like marshall, and even decker, are let go in a few years, will be primed to be our #1 WR. and while i like kerley, he isn't the reason to pass on a top tier WR.
so my decision on signing a veteran WR isn't about whether that takes the WR position out of consideration at #6 . they should be discrete decisions. if the team feels that cooper (e.g.) is the best player in the long-term interests of the franchise, they should take him. stevie johnson, at least the 2015 version of him, shouldn't impact that decision.
What about White? A 6'2 220lbs 4.3 40 WR who could work with Decker and Marshall for a year (and Gaily) who seems to have no off the field issues? I saw you referenced Cooper a lot, but what if White is there at #6 , would you consider him?
Im glad you feel this way, actually. Because while I "love" the pass rush prospects in this draft...I dont know if I'd score any, other than DT Williams, with a draft grade higher than White (his ceiling is enormous, IMO)...so in my heart, I've been thinking we should take White if he falls to us somehow...but my head says we dont need a WR so we'll take a flyer on one of these pass rushers (Im leaning towards Dupree and Fowler these days I think because of their natural build...and I think gregory will be gone, they're by 1a and 1b/cs...I'd be happy with any of these 3).
i kind of assume white will be off the board (seems like an obvious pick for the raiders). but he is up their in consideration for me wrt the WRs along with cooper. i've seem more of cooper so i'm more familiar with him. but white definitely seems like a great prospect.
So with what Mac & Bowles have done in FA I think we can comfortably say that they will be going BPA whatever position that may be. I would love to get White or Cooper on the roster but if they are gone or a better piece is available I think that is the direction they will go.
We addressed the blaring need in FA which was the secondary. Now it's time to start adding young talent to the team.
We addressed the blaring need in FA which was the secondary. Now it's time to start adding young talent to the team.
J
Jet Setter
Guest
55, you seem to know the talent. Have you watched White on game film? Do you see him gaining separation very often? I think he could be a bust. I do. Based on your glowing reports, you'll laugh at this but I'm basing my opinion on his game film. He's not that good. He doesn't really get away from anyone. A couple of CB's basically shut him down. He doesn't run routes very well and has relied (not unlike Sammy Watkins) on a lot of fly patterns against inferior college CB's. A ton of contested balls.
And many will point to his 40 and athleticism. We all know that's not enough.
I don't think the comparisons with Cooper are even remotely close and I think these mock draft boards are wrongly jacked up over this guy in the same light as Mariota. But that's just me.
I disagree on that. We have 3 blaring needs still staring us in the face: QB (most important), OLB (this team is still without an edge rusher), RB (need the 3rd down do-everything back).
While I have always been on board with Cooper and White, there is compelling data showing the dominant WR doesn't translate to jack-squat in today's NFL. Having a corps of Marshall, Decker, Stevie Johnson, Kerley, and Amaro should be formidable.
You guys can think Cooper and White are still on the board, but I have already scratched them off my potential picks at #6 . Not because I wouldn't do it, but to me Macc and Bowles are clearly not thinking that way.
I think it boils down to getting the QB first (Mariota very much in play) or the athletic LB that can rush the passer AND cover in space. That's why I don't have guys like Fowler, Ray, and probably Dupree on my board. I think our need is more for an athlete like Beasley who can rush but who also can cover backs out of the backfield.
While I have always been on board with Cooper and White, there is compelling data showing the dominant WR doesn't translate to jack-squat in today's NFL. Having a corps of Marshall, Decker, Stevie Johnson, Kerley, and Amaro should be formidable.
You guys can think Cooper and White are still on the board, but I have already scratched them off my potential picks at #6 . Not because I wouldn't do it, but to me Macc and Bowles are clearly not thinking that way.
I think it boils down to getting the QB first (Mariota very much in play) or the athletic LB that can rush the passer AND cover in space. That's why I don't have guys like Fowler, Ray, and probably Dupree on my board. I think our need is more for an athlete like Beasley who can rush but who also can cover backs out of the backfield.
J
Jet Setter
Guest
The problem is Cooper is ready now. There is no need to groom him. Just give him game experience and let him adapt to the game and work his opponents with his superior balance and route running that he doesn't tip off and his speed is good enough to command a cushion from CB's and even if the play up, he has strength to fight it off.
well i don't disagree with you on the 3 glaring needs. and if mariota is there at 6, unless we can swing a great trade, i'd absolutely take him if the scouts and coaches think he can be a franchise QB. as to RB, i think you would agree there is no RB worth the #6 pick, especially with gurley coming off the ACL injury. and me personally, unless i'm sure he's the next AP, i don't take ANY RB that high, not in today's nfl where RBs are devalued (as both draft picks and free agents).
i am not ruling out taking an OLB. i just would not pigeonhole my pick on one position (if we assume mariota is gone). if the scouts think a WR is the BPA, then you take him. if they think an OLB (who can rush the passer and cover) is the BPA, then you take him. i just don't exclude one position or force another based on need. i'm also weary of the converted DE who becomes a top OLB. spending the #6 pick on a player who in all likelihood will be switching positions (not many college teams run a 3-4) is risky.
also, for all the talk of the jets lack of a pass rush, we were tied for 6th in the league with 45 sacks, and that was with a garbage secondary. 5 more sacks (call them coverage sacks attributable to revis, cro and skrine) and we would be #2 in the league.
you are right. poor choice of words on my behalf to say slowly work him in. what i meant is that he doesn't need to be thrust into the lineup and feel the pressure of being a #1 WR right away. obviously you hope he produces to OBJ did for the giants last year. but he doesn't need to be looked at as the savior.
But would you take them if they are there? Not Bowles or Mac, IMO, but would you take them? Also, Point, for your big board, how do you rank (in order) Cooper, White, Fowler, Gregory, Beasely, Dupree, and Ray?
1 thing we cna probably agree on is the offense is missing is speed. We have ZERO speed. Whether it comes from Wr or RB, this offense needs a game breaker of any kind, heck, the Bills have 3 of them compared to our 0 (McCoy, Watkins, and Harvin).
I dont know if WR is or is not off the board at #6 , but I know if we go offense in this draft, it better be a big play threat, IMO, because despite all our additions, we're still missing that, IMO.
I live in Maryland. Oddly enough, he played Towson and Maryland back-to-back weeks here. Seriously, i couldn't care less what he does against Towson (just outside of Baltimore for those that dont know), but against Maryland he tore them a new one...and this is before anyone really knew who he was (he didnt do much his first year for WVU).
In the 2 games I saw him, he combind for 350 yards receiving. No one could cover him. Im a little surprise you say the above, I believe he only had 3 games he was held under 5 catches this entire year, and he shred Texas, Texas A&M, texas tech, Baylor, and Oklahoma in those nationally televised games...
I dont know, on the big stages, White never came up small. Pretty sure the kid almost had 20 catches in the loss at Texas. I didnt see any of the issue you described, but I guess you may have focused on his 2-3 average games...
BTW, if you're scouting report turns out accurate, it makes more sense for the raiders to draft him
Hobson,
I wasn't advocating a RB at #6 . My only point was that we still have 3 pretty big holes on the roster. I think 2 of those needs will be in play at #6 : QB or OLB. I fully expect our pick to be at one of those 2 positions based on the way Macc has conducted his offseason to this point.
Superman55,
I would have been very interested in Cooper or White. That doesn't appear to be in Macc or Bowles plans though. If we add someone like Stevie Johnson, I would still add a young WR like Conley, Green, Lockett, or Diggs in round 4, but wouldn't consider addressing the position at #6 now.
Regarding speed, that could be addressed with the 3rd to 4th round WR's mentioned above as well as Duke Johnson at RB who I have advocated since day one. Duke/Lockett would be a nice speed addition to go along with the strength of Marshall/Decker on the outside.
Regarding the question of how rank the players you mentioned:
1) Cooper/Beasley 3) White 4) Ray 5)Dupree 6) Fowler
Fowler is someone I think we would be wise to stay away from.
I think drafting a WR in first will be tempting....but I still think they go OLB?EDGE rusher...and this is why...
part of the draft process is figuring out...which position WR or OLB would you better have a chance to address in 2nd or later....I think there are a plethora of WR, all of which in the right system can be difference makers....I think after the top 4-5 edge rushers...there is a little drop off..and not that some others arent some diamonds in the rough..just think logically. How many playoff games has Megatron, Julio Jones, AJ Green, even Dez Bryant won? not too many...plus with the lingering QB situation..the WR is still dependent on the QB for the most part..so get a monster rusher..that can help all the other guys in the defense..by taking less attention to Sheldon, Mo, Snacks, and since the secondary should be better..QB's will have to potentially hold the ball longer looking for guys and more time for sacks.....just my take.....
this of course goes out window..if they love Mariota
part of the draft process is figuring out...which position WR or OLB would you better have a chance to address in 2nd or later....I think there are a plethora of WR, all of which in the right system can be difference makers....I think after the top 4-5 edge rushers...there is a little drop off..and not that some others arent some diamonds in the rough..just think logically. How many playoff games has Megatron, Julio Jones, AJ Green, even Dez Bryant won? not too many...plus with the lingering QB situation..the WR is still dependent on the QB for the most part..so get a monster rusher..that can help all the other guys in the defense..by taking less attention to Sheldon, Mo, Snacks, and since the secondary should be better..QB's will have to potentially hold the ball longer looking for guys and more time for sacks.....just my take.....
this of course goes out window..if they love Mariota
if mariota is off the board, that basically means you are pigeonholing the pick to one position (OLB). i would not expect a veteran scout like macc to focus solely on one position with a prime pick. that said, i am not ruling out the position. just that i personally would not take WR off the board at #6 - stevie johnson or no stevie johnson.
fwiw - i do not expect the jets to sign any of these veteran WRs, at least until after the draft.