Winston and Mariota are not planning to attend the NFL Draft

[flgreen]

Cy,
that's fine that you feel that way and if you're ever the #1 pick you can choose to fly to Chicago and be there. But to criticize Jameis because he now wants to AVOID the bright lights and just humbly stay home with his family and friends is beyond ridiculous. This kid can't win with some of you. You would rather him put on a ridiculous Sean John suit and parade around for the cameras? The Bucs could give a rat's ass about all that and I guarantee you that they are happy that Jameis has no interest in doing that. It just reinforces that they are NOT getting Johnny Football 2.0.

To me this is just finding a reason to be critical when one isn't there. I applaud Jameis for wanting no part of the spotlight and instead having his priorities in the right place. Good Lord, people.

Agree with 90% of what you said. I have been touting Winston on these boards as the most NFL ready QB in this draft for over a year hoping the Jets would find a way to draft him. And I'm a Canes fan. Winston IMO is the real deal.

With that said comparing Mariota to "Johnny Football" is also a major, major reach. Other then they both played out of a spread offense, there is 0 similarities between them. Mariota has a great chance to be a top flight QB. No guarantees, never having played under center is certainly a hurdle, but he has all the on field and off field tools to over come it.

 

[cysporsche]

John Elway

LOL, Within the last 40 years ! Back when Elway was deciding to go NFL or MLB, the total draft was one day, and no one gave a rats ass ! Today, it's a major sporting event. If you have never been, add it to your bucket list. It's a shame the Rockettes ruined the draft from staying in NYC. Now it will rotate with Chicago this year, and Dallas or L.A. the following year.

Go Jets...Cyborg

 

[Pointdexter]

With that said comparing Mariota to "Johnny Football" is also a major, major reach. Other then they both played out of a spread offense, there is 0 similarities between them. Mariota has a great chance to be a top flight QB. No guarantees, never having played under center is certainly a hurdle, but he has all the on field and off field tools to over come it.

I never mentioned Mariota in my post, not sure where you got that from. I only made the point that Winston is not interested in the spotlight and partying it up at all the draft events. He's way more conservative, and likes to stay out of all that. Manziel, on the other hand, loves the big events and nightlife. Winston is not Manziel 2.0.

I really believe Winston wants people to start talking about what he does on the football field. He only wants to win ballgames. TB is getting a good one and I don't think he will be trouble for them.

 

[flgreen]

I never mentioned Mariota in my post, not sure where you got that from. I only made the point that Winston is not interested in the spotlight and partying it up at all the draft events. He's way more conservative, and likes to stay out of all that. Manziel, on the other hand, loves the big events and nightlife. Winston is not Manziel 2.0.

I really believe Winston wants people to start talking about what he does on the football field. He only wants to win ballgames. TB is getting a good one and I don't think he will be trouble for them.

OK. Where I got it from was this statement "I guarantee you that they are happy that Jameis has no interest in doing that. It just reinforces that they are NOT getting Johnny Football 2.0" I interpreted (wrongly) it as you were saying that Mariota was Manziel because he wasn't a good player because of the Spread connection. A lot of Mariota detractors are making that comparison.

You have cleared up my flawed interpretation. Thank you

 

[Pointdexter]

No problem. So many times we've heard, "I want no part of Winston. He's Manziel 2.0." It was always pretty aggravating to me because they are very different people. They have some things in common (heisman as a freshman and bad decisions) but their personalities are so different. Manziel can found at the club a 3 in the morning. That is very unlikely with Winston.

Winston wants to be great. I really believe that. He loves to compete.

 

[maxmet]

you can spin this either way

is he selfish for not going?

or is he demonstrating humility and family values?

what if he says "I want to thank my family and God and my coaches and teammates for getting to this place. I want to thank [team name] and [GM, coach, owner] for their confidence in me. I decided not to come to Chicago for the draft, because I want to celebrate this turning point in my life quietly with my family and closest friends. I have a reservation to fly tomorrow to [city of team] where I look forward to thanking everyone in the XXXX organization in person. I want to thank the fans for welcoming me and I want them to know that I am committed to making them proud of me in every way."

 

[Pointdexter]

Max,

I will take what you said a step further. Who are any of us to say how Jameis should celebrate a day that HE worked hard over many years for? This is his day; not ours. He should spend it how he sees fit. He's earned that. To me, this is like trying to tell someone who want a simple family-only wedding that they're doing it wrong and it should be a lavish 250+ person event? Silly.

The bottom line is, should the Bucs pick him, they are expecting him to show up every day and on time for practice, be a leader and hard worker, stay out of the headlines for the wrong reasons, and put himself on the line on each and every Sunday. Maybe we should save our criticisms for if/when he fails to do those things.

The hypocrisy cracks me up, though. The man makes a decision to stay out of the glitz and glamour and feels no need to showboat, instead opting to be with his family and girlfriend. And we criticize him for it. I guarantee the same people, if he had chosen to go, would have been positing here the next day and putting Winston on blast for what he said, what he wore, and how this guy is nothing but Manziel 2.0.

He literally can't win with some of you.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

No problem. So many times we've heard, "I want no part of Winston. He's Manziel 2.0." It was always pretty aggravating to me because they are very different people. They have some things in common (heisman as a freshman and bad decisions) but their personalities are so different. Manziel can found at the club a 3 in the morning. That is very unlikely with Winston. Winston wants to be great. I really believe that. He loves to compete.

I think you are being way too dismissive of Winston's issues, which are real and serious and not imagined or fabricated, and to be honest I think you are being too dismissive about the presumptive #1 Pick choosing not to show up for the draft as well. You are acting like Cy has no point to make and I disagree. He asked if you can name one other #1 Pick who decided to stay home, and in the modern era (televised seven round draft) I can't think of any. Maybe its happened, but I follow the draft as closely as anyone and I can't think of any. That doesn't mean there can't be a first or that you can't try to see Winston's POV, but to act like Cy and those who think he should be there are being unfair and making outlandish demands is a little too dismissive and defensive in my view, and if you think Winston's rape accuser going on network TV and tearfully recounting her alleged assault doesn't scare the hell out of the NFL, especially after the beating the league has taken over domestic violence issues over the past year, and this is their presumptive #1 overall pick, again I think you are very mistaken. I get it that you like Winston and I understand people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but this guy has real problems in the court of public opinion and those problems are very serious. He'll probably still go #1 regardless and maybe the Bucs will never regret it, but you best believe the NFL is extremely uneasy about this, especially with his accuser now going public and putting a real (tearful) face on his alleged attack, and I wouldn't be surprised if they politely asked his reps to keep him away from the draft, thats why I'm not hammering him for it, he might be the first #1 Pick not to show up, but I suspect its the NFL's call.

 

[Pointdexter]

Lol, if you knew any of the facts of Miss Kinsman's case and the invalidity of her claims, then you wouldn't be taking this stance.

Cy has a right to his opinion. But we don't have a right to decide if Winston should be there or not. If he would rather be home and Tampa and the league commissioner is ok with it, which I'm sure they are or he wouldn't be doing it, then who are we to put him on blast for yet another nitpicking, non-story in this guy's life. People just need to give it a rest.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Lol, if you knew any of the facts of Miss Kinsman's case and the invalidity of her claims, then you wouldn't be taking this stance.

I know the story and its a classic case of he said/she said, which makes it so difficult to ascertain the truth in alleged rape cases, and no, his friends backing his story is of no effect too me. I understand that men can be falsely accused. I'm no feminist or liberal who presumes the woman is always telling the truth about sexual assault, but I don't presume she is always lying either, and I personally find this girls account to be credible, even if, like most rape cases, it lacks enough evidence to charge the accused with a crime. Other people will look at the same set of facts and conclude the opposite, that Winston is being unfairly accused, because there's enough ambiguity to go either way here. But thats not a good thing for the NFL, when half the population suspects that your presumptive #1 overall pick is a rapist, and its a lot worse now that his accuser has gone public and is out there giving tearful interviews. Dismiss that if you want too, but I can assure you, the NFL is not laughing about it, especially after the heat they've been taking on domestic violence.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

I don't want you guys to think I'm bailing on the conversation, but I'm late for a dentist appointment and I have to run!

 

[Pointdexter]

If you think her story is credible then you know very little about the facts of the case. such as

*Kinsman asking her friend to lie to the police claiming Kinsman's panties belonged to the friend instead. (it showed evidence of intercourse with multiple men that night)

*her aunt saying it couldn't have been consensual sex because she doesn't date "black boys", yet Miss Kinsman's boyfriend at the time was indeed black.

*The fact that Miss Kinsman's account of what happened changed 3 times, including account that she was hit over the head and/or drugged. Toxicology reports and physical exam at the hospital confirmed that neither of those things are accurate. If anything, she was quite sober and alert.

*The fact that Miss Kinsman initially told police that her attacker was approx a "5'11 black man". Jameis Winston is 6'4.

*The fact that Miss Kinsman was in a group among her friends that called themselves the "cleat chasers" and quickly tried to erase any evidence of that on facebook after the fact.

*The fact that eye witnesses account that Miss Kinsman was on top of Mr. Winston when they entered the room, hardly a position of submission.

Look, I could on. The fact that the Kinsman family is on a non-stop money grab and the national media is all too happy to oblige (just like Ferguson but don't get me started), doesn't mean there is any merit to her claim. It just means our media has lost all scruples. This is not a case of a poor gal who just can't gather up enough evidence to convict, this is a case of someone who is on a pretty clear mission for a pay day.

 

[flgreen]

I know the story and its a classic case of he said/she said, which makes it so difficult to ascertain the truth in alleged rape cases, and no, his friends backing his story is of no effect too me. I understand that men can be falsely accused. I'm no feminist or liberal who presumes the woman is always telling the truth about sexual assault, but I don't presume she is always lying either, and I personally find this girls account to be credible, even if, like most rape cases, it lacks enough evidence to charge the accused with a crime. Other people will look at the same set of facts and conclude the opposite, that Winston is being unfairly accused, because there's enough ambiguity to go either way here. But thats not a good thing for the NFL, when half the population suspects that your presumptive #1 overall pick is a rapist, and its a lot worse now that his accuser has gone public and is out there giving tearful interviews. Dismiss that if you want too, but I can assure you, the NFL is not laughing about it, especially after the heat they've been taking on domestic violence.

What's interesting about these rape allegations is in the end, and the beginning for that matter, the young ladies story was full of contradictions, changed statements, and out right deception. She didn't show up for police interviews, and just acted like an extremely unreliable witness. It struck me as a similar case as with the whores in the lacrosse BS case several years back.

The college hearing in the end, after the courts decided there was noting there, was ridiculous from a media, and federal standpoint. Federal observers, and mediators at a students disciplinary hearing? You got to be kidding me.

It also struck me as very interesting that Mark Sanchez when he was a freshman was accused of the exact same thing. He actually had some culpability in it, and was suspended briefly, and did community service. During the draft process, almost nothing was said about it, I actually didn't even her about it until after his first season, and I spend way more time on the draft then I should. LOL It wasn't an issue. This wasn't 1950, it was a few years ago.

Have the media and Americans being led by the nose by the media become so PC that the mere accusation, or suggestion of some wrong doing brands a person for life? Strange days indeed.

Winston is not a rapist. No one in the NFL is paying him any money right now, he doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to.

He doesn't owe any fans, or any franchise any explanation. He wants to spend the second biggest day of his life with his loved ones. Good for him

 

[cysporsche]

I honestly don't care about Winston or his rape case or whatever !

My only and last point here, as an ex player from pee-wee to College, it would be a total friggin honor to be asked to attend the NFL Draft as a draftee. I can't fathom not going and taking my family with me to the draft to celebrate. A CB from VA Tech must have had 30 family members on the stage with the Commish and everyone was loving it. I have nothing against staying home with my family, but this is my day as a player, and we're going to Chicago !

Go Jets...Cyborg

 

[maxmet]

I agree cy - in a world in which I were an NFL draftee, you have to work hard to keep me out of the room......but thats me.

 

[Jet Setter]

I honestly don't care about Winston or his rape case or whatever !

My only and last point here, as an ex player from pee-wee to College, it would be a total friggin honor to be asked to attend the NFL Draft as a draftee. I can't fathom not going and taking my family with me to the draft to celebrate. A CB from VA Tech must have had 30 family members on the stage with the Commish and everyone was loving it. I have nothing against staying home with my family, but this is my day as a player, and we're going to Chicago !

Go Jets...Cyborg

That's your opinion on the matter. And I'm fine that there's a choice here. Others see spending that special day with family in the privacy of their homes far more valuable. And you want to force them to be there. Isn't this a free country?
Keep in mind these guys are not yet under contract. How can many of them afford to fly their families out and accrue hotel and other expenses? Maybe the NFL pays for everything...I don't know. A multi-billion dollar corporation that hasn't paid taxes in its existence can certainly afford it and maybe they do. It's still not the point.
And, BTW, every tax-paying citizen should have their pitchforks out over that tax-exempt status. What, they're government? Unreal! They should pay back taxes. I know you and I would have to with a friendly IRS audit.

And what about the annual humiliations for the players that drop in the green room? You think they consider being watched every moment by every football fan in the US while they get passed over equates to an honor?
And all this so a handful of fans that are present get to see a player in person. Whoop-de-frickin'-do!
I couldn't be more against this opinion.

 

[Pointdexter]

I honestly don't care about Winston or his rape case or whatever !

My only and last point here, as an ex player from pee-wee to College, it would be a total friggin honor to be asked to attend the NFL Draft as a draftee. I can't fathom not going and taking my family with me to the draft to celebrate.

Go Jets...Cyborg

I respect that, Cy. I respect that you would love the once-in-a-lifetime experience of walking across that stage, putting on the ball cap, and shaking Goodell's hand. Just as I hope you would respect another person's wishes to be at home in the comfort of friends and family without 20 cameras and microphones in their face.

My only point here is that some (you included) have turned what should be a non-issue into yet another thing to nitpick Winston on.

 

[flgreen]

That's your opinion on the matter. And I'm fine that there's a choice here. Others see spending that special day with family in the privacy of their homes far more valuable. And you want to force them to be there. Isn't this a free country?
Keep in mind these guys are not yet under contract. How can many of them afford to fly their families out and accrue hotel and other expenses? Maybe the NFL pays for everything...I don't know. A multi-billion dollar corporation that hasn't paid taxes in its existence can certainly afford it and maybe they do. It's still not the point.
And, BTW, every tax-paying citizen should have their pitchforks out over that tax-exempt status. What, they're government? Unreal! They should pay back taxes. I know you and I would have to with a friendly IRS audit.

And what about the annual humiliations for the players that drop in the green room? You think they consider being watched every moment by every football fan in the US while they get passed over equates to an honor?
And all this so a handful of fans that are present get to see a player in person. Whoop-de-frickin'-do!
I couldn't be more against this opinion.

Yep. Geno Smith had so much fun with his family on National TV, that he wasn't going to come back for the second day.

His Mom had to force him. Ah good times, what an honor

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

If you think her story is credible then you know very little about the facts of the case. such as

*Kinsman asking her friend to lie to the police claiming Kinsman's panties belonged to the friend instead. (it showed evidence of intercourse with multiple men that night)

*her aunt saying it couldn't have been consensual sex because she doesn't date "black boys", yet Miss Kinsman's boyfriend at the time was indeed black.

*The fact that Miss Kinsman's account of what happened changed 3 times, including account that she was hit over the head and/or drugged. Toxicology reports and physical exam at the hospital confirmed that neither of those things are accurate. If anything, she was quite sober and alert.

*The fact that Miss Kinsman initially told police that her attacker was approx a "5'11 black man". Jameis Winston is 6'4.

*The fact that Miss Kinsman was in a group among her friends that called themselves the "cleat chasers" and quickly tried to erase any evidence of that on facebook after the fact.

*The fact that eye witnesses account that Miss Kinsman was on top of Mr. Winston when they entered the room, hardly a position of submission.

Look, I could on. The fact that the Kinsman family is on a non-stop money grab and the national media is all too happy to oblige (just like Ferguson but don't get me started), doesn't mean there is any merit to her claim. It just means our media has lost all scruples. This is not a case of a poor gal who just can't gather up enough evidence to convict, this is a case of someone who is on a pretty clear mission for a pay day.

PDex, you're right, I hadn't heard any of that in the accounts that I read, which pisses me off and only makes me distrust the media more than I already do, which was close to impossible, but if that stuff is even remotely true then it cast this case in a whole different light and I'm 100% prepared to say its a dead issue. If that stuff happened, this girl is clearly lying and trying to turn her regret for being a ho into rape so she can feel better about herself, either that or its a money grab, or both, but those facts, if true, makes a world of difference.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

What's interesting about these rape allegations is in the end, and the beginning for that matter, the young ladies story was full of contradictions, changed statements, and out right deception. She didn't show up for police interviews, and just acted like an extremely unreliable witness. It struck me as a similar case as with the whores in the lacrosse BS case several years back.

I'll tell you something, FLG, if all that stuff PDex said is true, or even partly true, I hope Winston is not being intimidated because the girl went public and I hope he tells Goodell to F-off if its the leagues idea that he stays away because Goodell doesn't want to deal with the blowback. Thats his problem. If this kid is innocent he shouldn't let nobody steal his draft day experience. If its his idea to say home, fine, but if its anybody else's idea, he should go.