Four game suspension UPHELD

jets82

Curious George
Jet Fanatics
1. It's not about making the league look bad. It's about ensuring the integrity of the game. A guy hits a woman off the field, it's awful, but it does not endanger the integrity of the game. A guy doctors footballs, it's not nearly as bad an offense in the grand scheme, but it severely endangers the integrity of the game.

2. The deflated footballs had nothing to do with the Pats destroying the Colts. But you don't suspend the rules because a game is a blowout. And if the Pats have been doing this for a while, it may have impacted previous close games, including the close game the week before against Baltimore. What about the Jets? The Pats beat the Jets twice last year by a combined 3 points. Maybe one turnover each game, or one incompletion on a key third down, makes the difference. And on a larger scale, Tom Brady requested a rules change in 2006 that gave teams more control over game balls. As soon as that rule took effect, and to today, the Pats have had an UNPRECEDENTED run of avoiding fumbles. I'm talking statistics that simply don't just happen on their own.
I got you and can't argue or debate what your saying but riddle me this my good man, cheating or bending the rules has been in existence in all professional sports since they began. Especially in football, you have the players that wore stickem before they made the gloves that players wear now. O and D-line men that put Vaseline or cooking grease on their jerseys. You have defensive players till this day that will fake an injury when their tired going up against an hurry up offense. Is this cheating or is this just gamesmanship?

It all seems to be a chess game that the Pats push to the extreme limits and win from it. Guess their great at it but horrible at it at the same time because they seem to get caught more then other teams do. As for the other games they cheated or pushed the envelope with deflated balls and won. Even against our beloved Jets, I say step up and stop them so they can't score and beat you. Easier said then done I realize. If not that then his about this, if you can't beat em then join em and beat their asses at their own damn game.
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Rules exist to protect fair players from unscrupulous people. When someone intentionally does something that they know is against the rules to gain a competitive advantage, that's cheating. The rules are what they are; there may be grey areas in the interpretation of some rules, but I don't accept that there's some unknown area that is outside the limit of the rule technically, or which violates the spirit of the rule, but is still considered acceptable, as long as it doesn't go "too far." That's just anarchy. Either the rules are enforced or they aren't. But the idea that cheating is acceptable in any way because it helps you win is bunk. That's the whole point of cheating.

The rules exist to ensure a fair competition and when certain competitors don't value a fair competition, it is a problem. The rules exist to protect fair players from cheaters. The whole point of rules is to ensure a fair competition. If Woody was even more unscrupulous, and even less concerned about hurting people, he could pay someone off to pay a "visit" to Tom Brady and maybe Tom would have broken legs after that. That would help the Jets win the upcoming Patriots game! Would anyone think that was OK? Of course not. Of course, it would be way worse than anything the Patriots have done. But the point is the same, that there may always come along someone willing to cheat harder than you, or who is even more unscrupulous than you, and then the whole thing becomes a race to the bottom where only cheaters can possibly win (see Professional Cycling). That's why rules are so important and why even minor transgressions can't be let to slide, especially if they're done knowingly, and why there certainly can't be a policy that a certain amount of action that violates the rules is in any way acceptable.
 

Bronx

Repeat Offender Pro Bowler
Jet Fanatics
From espn

From espn

Brady, NFLPA likely to come up short in federal court challenge

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New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, the National Football League Players Association and their lawyers say they will ask a federal judge for an injunction that will prevent the NFL from enforcing the four-game suspension that commissioner Roger Goodell confirmed Tuesday in a detailed decision. Brady's threat of litigation and Goodell's decision raise questions about a court's role in a collectively-bargained arbitration process:

Question: Will Brady succeed in court and stop the NFL from suspending him for four games?

Answer: No, Brady will not succeed. Although he enjoys top-of-the-line legal representation and his lawyers will file a brilliantly written lawsuit, his effort to stop the suspension is doomed. There are two reasons why: First, federal judges are reluctant to reconsider the rulings of arbitrators; second, Goodell produced a decision on Brady that is brilliantly reasoned, meticulously detailed, and well-written. Goodell's recitation of the evidence of the tampering with game balls is powerful, and his description of Brady's attempt at a cover-up is persuasive.

Q: Why are federal judges reluctant to reconsider an arbitrator's decision?

A: If federal judges were to offer reviews of arbitrator decisions made throughout the nation, their dockets soon would be filled with arbitration cases. Throughout American business and industry, there are agreements to submit disputes to arbitration. It is viewed as a less-costly and more-efficient way to resolve issues. It avoids the expense and the endless delays of litigation. An essential element of any arbitration is that it is final and cannot be reviewed.

Federal judges understand the theory behind arbitration, and they are already inundated with criminal cases and thousands of civil lawsuits. They know that an arbitrator has considered the evidence, and the judges do not want a second look at the evidence. Even when the arbitrator is totally wrong, most federal judges will not reconsider the ruling. In a notorious case involving former Los Angeles Dodgers baseball player Steve Garvey at the U.S. Supreme Court in 2001, the high court ruled that even when the arbitrator's decision is "improvident or even silly," it does "not provide a basis for a court to refuse to enforce" the arbitrator's decision.

Q: But didn't a federal judge recently reverse an NFL arbitration ruling for Adrian Peterson?

A: Yes. U.S. District Court Judge David Doty in Minneapolis, who has presided over NFL litigation for 25 years, reversed the punishment imposed on Peterson. He based his ruling on what he thought was an egregious error by the NFL arbitrator -- the application of a new and harsher penalty to an incident that occurred before the adoption of the new penalty. The case is on appeal, and the NFL is likely to prevail in the appeal with the high court reminding Doty that federal judges should stay away from reviews of arbitrators' rulings.

Q: Bloomberg is reporting that the NFL filed a lawsuit in New York on Tuesday, beating the NFLPA and Brady to the punch. What's this about?

A: The NFL is clearly worried that Brady and his lawyers will file their lawsuit in Minneapolis, where NFL players have achieved historic triumphs over the NFL, including several decisions by Doty. The league attorneys filed their lawsuit first in New York, hoping that the league would have a greater chance of success. The league used a procedure known as a declaratory judgment lawsuit in its effort to win the race to choose the ultimate courthouse.

Q: What will Brady's lawyers argue in their attempt to reverse Goodell's ruling?

A: Led by the estimable Jeffrey Kessler, the Brady legal team will argue that Brady did nothing wrong, that the Wells report failed to establish that Brady had a role in the inflation of the game balls, that the penalty is too harsh, and that Goodell was not a neutral arbitrator. None of these arguments offers a compelling reason for a judge to reverse Goodell's decision. All of the arguments were raised in detail in the arbitration hearing, and Goodell answered each one of them in exquisite and persuasive detail in his 20-page opinion. It is difficult to imagine a judge reconsidering any of them. The players gave away the idea of a neutral arbitrator when they voluntarily agreed in collective bargaining that the commissioner would make the final decision in conduct detrimental cases.

Q: What evidence led Goodell to confirm the four-game suspension?

A: Goodell relied on evidence the Wells investigation, the 300 exhibits offered in the daylong hearing, and 450 pages of testimony. He also relied heavily on information that he did not learn during the hearing. Kessler and the NFLPA said there was no need for testimony from John Jastremski and James McNally, the Patriots employees who were involved in the machinations that led to the deflated game balls. The NFL attorneys argued, according to the Goodell opinion, that Goodell was entitled to make an "adverse inference" from Brady's failure to present key witnesses. Goodell went beyond the adverse inference and made a finding that both men lacked credibility in the statements they made to Wells. The Brady legal team also admitted that McNally had "more than enough time" during his famous 100-second visit into a locked bathroom to do what was necessary to deflate the balls.

Q: Was there other evidence that was important to Goodell?

A: Yes. Brady's refusal to cooperate with the Wells investigators and his destruction of his cell phone on the same day that he was to be interviewed by Wells were extremely important in Goodell's decision. Goodell said that the destruction of the cell phone was "very troubling." He added that it was clear that Brady made an "affirmative effort to conceal relevant evidence and to undermine the investigation." And Goodell took his reasoning one step further when he wrote that Brady's destruction of the phone "gives rise to an inference that information from his cellphone, if it were available, would further demonstrate [Brady's] direct knowledge of and involvement with the scheme to tamper with the game balls, just as he concealed for months the fact that he had destroyed the cellphone requested by the investigators."

Q: What was Brady's biggest mistake?

A: There was more than one. There is little doubt that Brady blundered when he refused to cooperate with the Wells investigators by turning over his phone and his text messages. He made it even worse when he destroyed the phone. And then, incredibly, after he had destroyed the phone, he and his lawyers suggested to Goodell that Brady routinely destroyed his old phones when he purchased a new one. The problem was that the Wells investigators had already found an old phone that Brady had not destroyed. But the worst mistake was a series of phone calls and text messages on the day after the Indianapolis game with Jastremski and a visit with him in the "QB Room." Goodell, in a brilliant passage in his masterly opinion, explained that the frantic calls in the three days after the game showed that Brady "was undermining efforts by game officials to ensure compliance with league rules."
 
M

Mainejet

Guest
How many times do the these fags from NE need to hear the same thing........

INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE

If Brady truly was innocent, he would have handed over his cell phone. If the Patsies were innocent, they would have cooperated with the league investigation. They would have allowed the equipment guys to speak to investigators.

However, they did the complete opposite and that is a clear sign of GUILT. On top of that, they were idiots about the whole thing. Smug, arrogant ******bags about the whole thing.

So whatever happens to them?


THEY HAD IT COMING.
 

Elias

The Invisible Man
Big Fish
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Mark Cuban on Tom Brady. I agree with him

“Here are my thoughts on Tom Brady and his suspension being upheld...
As far as 4 games being upheld, the NBA owner in me is surprised it wasn’t extended. The old saying ‘the cover up is always worse than the crime’ applies here. Once he destroyed his phone this all went from did he break the rules of the game, to ‘can he get away with deceiving the commissioner.’
We can argue whether 4 games was too much for deflating the ball. You can’t argue whether 4 games is enough for trying to make a fool out of the commissioner of the NFL. The NFL can’t have players, their agents and Lawyers thinking that if you do wrong and just destroy the evidence it will all be OK. That can undermine the integrity of the league.
If this was the NBA, I truly think the suspension would have been more than 25pct of the season. So while the Pats fans I’m sure will disagree, I think the punishment of 4 games for trying to destroy evidence is actually lite.”
It seems safe to assume that Cuban won't be invited to be the guest of Robert Kraft at Gillette Stadium anytime soon after these comments.
 

Elias

The Invisible Man
Big Fish
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Brady, NFLPA likely to come up short in federal court challenge

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Print
New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, the National Football League Players Association and their lawyers say they will ask a federal judge for an injunction that will prevent the NFL from enforcing the four-game suspension that commissioner Roger Goodell confirmed Tuesday in a detailed decision. Brady's threat of litigation and Goodell's decision raise questions about a court's role in a collectively-bargained arbitration process:

Question: Will Brady succeed in court and stop the NFL from suspending him for four games?

Answer: No, Brady will not succeed. Although he enjoys top-of-the-line legal representation and his lawyers will file a brilliantly written lawsuit, his effort to stop the suspension is doomed. There are two reasons why: First, federal judges are reluctant to reconsider the rulings of arbitrators; second, Goodell produced a decision on Brady that is brilliantly reasoned, meticulously detailed, and well-written. Goodell's recitation of the evidence of the tampering with game balls is powerful, and his description of Brady's attempt at a cover-up is persuasive.

Q: Why are federal judges reluctant to reconsider an arbitrator's decision?

A: If federal judges were to offer reviews of arbitrator decisions made throughout the nation, their dockets soon would be filled with arbitration cases. Throughout American business and industry, there are agreements to submit disputes to arbitration. It is viewed as a less-costly and more-efficient way to resolve issues. It avoids the expense and the endless delays of litigation. An essential element of any arbitration is that it is final and cannot be reviewed.

Federal judges understand the theory behind arbitration, and they are already inundated with criminal cases and thousands of civil lawsuits. They know that an arbitrator has considered the evidence, and the judges do not want a second look at the evidence. Even when the arbitrator is totally wrong, most federal judges will not reconsider the ruling. In a notorious case involving former Los Angeles Dodgers baseball player Steve Garvey at the U.S. Supreme Court in 2001, the high court ruled that even when the arbitrator's decision is "improvident or even silly," it does "not provide a basis for a court to refuse to enforce" the arbitrator's decision.

Q: But didn't a federal judge recently reverse an NFL arbitration ruling for Adrian Peterson?

A: Yes. U.S. District Court Judge David Doty in Minneapolis, who has presided over NFL litigation for 25 years, reversed the punishment imposed on Peterson. He based his ruling on what he thought was an egregious error by the NFL arbitrator -- the application of a new and harsher penalty to an incident that occurred before the adoption of the new penalty. The case is on appeal, and the NFL is likely to prevail in the appeal with the high court reminding Doty that federal judges should stay away from reviews of arbitrators' rulings.

Q: Bloomberg is reporting that the NFL filed a lawsuit in New York on Tuesday, beating the NFLPA and Brady to the punch. What's this about?

A: The NFL is clearly worried that Brady and his lawyers will file their lawsuit in Minneapolis, where NFL players have achieved historic triumphs over the NFL, including several decisions by Doty. The league attorneys filed their lawsuit first in New York, hoping that the league would have a greater chance of success. The league used a procedure known as a declaratory judgment lawsuit in its effort to win the race to choose the ultimate courthouse.

Q: What will Brady's lawyers argue in their attempt to reverse Goodell's ruling?

A: Led by the estimable Jeffrey Kessler, the Brady legal team will argue that Brady did nothing wrong, that the Wells report failed to establish that Brady had a role in the inflation of the game balls, that the penalty is too harsh, and that Goodell was not a neutral arbitrator. None of these arguments offers a compelling reason for a judge to reverse Goodell's decision. All of the arguments were raised in detail in the arbitration hearing, and Goodell answered each one of them in exquisite and persuasive detail in his 20-page opinion. It is difficult to imagine a judge reconsidering any of them. The players gave away the idea of a neutral arbitrator when they voluntarily agreed in collective bargaining that the commissioner would make the final decision in conduct detrimental cases.

Q: What evidence led Goodell to confirm the four-game suspension?

A: Goodell relied on evidence the Wells investigation, the 300 exhibits offered in the daylong hearing, and 450 pages of testimony. He also relied heavily on information that he did not learn during the hearing. Kessler and the NFLPA said there was no need for testimony from John Jastremski and James McNally, the Patriots employees who were involved in the machinations that led to the deflated game balls. The NFL attorneys argued, according to the Goodell opinion, that Goodell was entitled to make an "adverse inference" from Brady's failure to present key witnesses. Goodell went beyond the adverse inference and made a finding that both men lacked credibility in the statements they made to Wells. The Brady legal team also admitted that McNally had "more than enough time" during his famous 100-second visit into a locked bathroom to do what was necessary to deflate the balls.

Q: Was there other evidence that was important to Goodell?

A: Yes. Brady's refusal to cooperate with the Wells investigators and his destruction of his cell phone on the same day that he was to be interviewed by Wells were extremely important in Goodell's decision. Goodell said that the destruction of the cell phone was "very troubling." He added that it was clear that Brady made an "affirmative effort to conceal relevant evidence and to undermine the investigation." And Goodell took his reasoning one step further when he wrote that Brady's destruction of the phone "gives rise to an inference that information from his cellphone, if it were available, would further demonstrate [Brady's] direct knowledge of and involvement with the scheme to tamper with the game balls, just as he concealed for months the fact that he had destroyed the cellphone requested by the investigators."

Q: What was Brady's biggest mistake?

A: There was more than one. There is little doubt that Brady blundered when he refused to cooperate with the Wells investigators by turning over his phone and his text messages. He made it even worse when he destroyed the phone. And then, incredibly, after he had destroyed the phone, he and his lawyers suggested to Goodell that Brady routinely destroyed his old phones when he purchased a new one. The problem was that the Wells investigators had already found an old phone that Brady had not destroyed. But the worst mistake was a series of phone calls and text messages on the day after the Indianapolis game with Jastremski and a visit with him in the "QB Room." Goodell, in a brilliant passage in his masterly opinion, explained that the frantic calls in the three days after the game showed that Brady "was undermining efforts by game officials to ensure compliance with league rules."

Great article. Thanks for sharing. It has educated me a lot on Deflategate and in US Law.

Also is making me very happy knowing that Goodell's decision will stick no matter what Bradys legal team decides.
 

maxmet

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
one element required to obtain a preliminary injunction is likelihood of success on the merits. Another is "irreparable harm". If all you would lose is money, you cant get an injunction.

Does Brady meet the irreparable harm test? If he litigates and ultimately wins that he should not have been suspended he can surely recover his lost salary as damages against the NFL.

What other irreparable harm? The opportunity to play those four games. How exactly is he harmed by that? Reduces the chances of his team winning? is that irreparable harm to Brady - keep in mind the Patriots are not parties to the lawsuit.

Legal beagles - is there irreparable harm?
 
F

flgreen

Guest
Maybe so, but it would be a fairer rendition if it ended with "knowing full well the company deleted the messages long before we asked about them."

Well that's howBrady found that out.

"Hello, cell phone Company?. This is Larz Silverstien. I dropped my cell phone into the blender. Anyway I can retrieve my texts?"

"No Tom, your safe"
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
1. It's not about making the league look bad. It's about ensuring the integrity of the game. A guy hits a woman off the field, it's awful, but it does not endanger the integrity of the game. A guy doctors footballs, it's not nearly as bad an offense in the grand scheme, but it severely endangers the integrity of the game.

2. The deflated footballs had nothing to do with the Pats destroying the Colts. But you don't suspend the rules because a game is a blowout. And if the Pats have been doing this for a while, it may have impacted previous close games, including the close game the week before against Baltimore. What about the Jets? The Pats beat the Jets twice last year by a combined 3 points. Maybe one turnover each game, or one incompletion on a key third down, makes the difference. And on a larger scale, Tom Brady requested a rules change in 2006 that gave teams more control over game balls. As soon as that rule took effect, and to today, the Pats have had an UNPRECEDENTED run of avoiding fumbles. I'm talking statistics that simply don't just happen on their own.

Yes. And I've been wondering why Wells did not include some analysis of fumble rates, re-done of course by independent investigators, in the deflategate report. But now I think I know why: The league does not want to be part of proving that the rules have been broken systematically for many years to the Pats' advantage. And they did not need that in order to be able to punish the Pats and Brady, so Goodell, I think, directed Wells not to go there.
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
Great article. Thanks for sharing. It has educated me a lot on Deflategate and in US Law.

Also is making me very happy knowing that Goodell's decision will stick no matter what Bradys legal team decides.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say it makes me think it is "more likely than not" that the decision will be upheld. But once a case is in the legal system, pretty much anything can happen. One piece of good news though is that I just read this AM that Judge Doty, the judge in Minnesota that always rips the league on player appeals, was not assigned to the lawsuit the NFLPA just filed. To which all I can say is:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 

Elias

The Invisible Man
Big Fish
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say it makes me think it is "more likely than not" that the decision will be upheld. But once a case is in the legal system, pretty much anything can happen. One piece of good news though is that I just read this AM that Judge Doty, the judge in Minnesota that always rips the league on player appeals, was not assigned to the lawsuit the NFLPA just filed. To which all I can say is:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I just don't get why it's the same judge a lot of the times, Doty. Can't the league file something that would help them get a different judge.

I thought the legal system calls for alternating judges so there's no conflict of interest.
 
U

ucrenegade

Guest
Q: What was Brady's biggest mistake?

A: There was more than one. There is little doubt that Brady blundered when he refused to cooperate with the Wells investigators by turning over his phone and his text messages. He made it even worse when he destroyed the phone. And then, incredibly, after he had destroyed the phone, he and his lawyers suggested to Goodell that Brady routinely destroyed his old phones when he purchased a new one. The problem was that the Wells investigators had already found an old phone that Brady had not destroyed. But the worst mistake was a series of phone calls and text messages on the day after the Indianapolis game with Jastremski and a visit with him in the "QB Room." Goodell, in a brilliant passage in his masterly opinion, explained that the frantic calls in the three days after the game showed that Brady "was undermining efforts by game officials to ensure compliance with league rules."


wow sersly how can you still scream he is innocent patsie land
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
I just don't get why it's the same judge a lot of the times, Doty. Can't the league file something that would help them get a different judge.

I thought the legal system calls for alternating judges so there's no conflict of interest.

That does look suspicious. But I wonder, can judges be selected based on familiarity with the particular situation, in this case an NFLPA lawsuit regarding an adverse league ruling? Also, is it possible for judges to request assignment to particular cases? If something along these lines isn't what's happening, it strains credulity to think Doty is assigned to these cases either by some random process or even with cases going in sequence to each judge as they come up.
 

SackExchange

Jet Fanatic
The Mod Squad
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
I got you and can't argue or debate what your saying but riddle me this my good man, cheating or bending the rules has been in existence in all professional sports since they began. Especially in football, you have the players that wore stickem before they made the gloves that players wear now. O and D-line men that put Vaseline or cooking grease on their jerseys. You have defensive players till this day that will fake an injury when their tired going up against an hurry up offense. Is this cheating or is this just gamesmanship?

It all seems to be a chess game that the Pats push to the extreme limits and win from it. Guess their great at it but horrible at it at the same time because they seem to get caught more then other teams do. As for the other games they cheated or pushed the envelope with deflated balls and won. Even against our beloved Jets, I say step up and stop them so they can't score and beat you. Easier said then done I realize. If not that then his about this, if you can't beat em then join em and beat their asses at their own damn game.

Gamesmanship is bending the rules. I played OL in college, and you made sure defensive linemen had nothing to grab onto. Sometimes, you would even doctor a jersey to make it tighter, or have it barely cover your shoulder pads.

The problem with the Patriots is that they systematically seek out ways not to just bend rules, but to break them and see exactly how far they can go. It's a part of their culture, and it goes WAY beyond gamesmanship.

I used to look back with remorse at the day Belichick left the Jets. I regretted his leaving, and wished he had stayed, even after Spygate. But this latest incident was the final straw. This was the first time I was glad, actually happy, Belichick did not end up coaching the Jets. The systemic culture of cheating he created in that building and for that franchise, and the pathetic righteous indignation they show every time they are caught, has made them and their fan base an absolute embarrassment to the game. I would put up with a lot to be able to call the Jets Super Bowl champions, especially multiple Super Bowl champions. But I would not be able to tolerate my organization repeatedly acting the way the Patriots do.
 

SackExchange

Jet Fanatic
The Mod Squad
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/dkaplanSBJ/status/626743701394616324[/TWEET]

This is huge for the league. The only reason the Pats and the union went to Minnesota is because the bench there has been particularly favorable to players, and unfavorable to the league.

Goodell had a legitimate reason for filing in NY, as the league offices are there. The Pats and the NFLPA had no legitimate reason to file in Minnesota. It was all a sham to try to get a favorable judge.
 

Bronx

Repeat Offender Pro Bowler
Jet Fanatics
BRADY IS F@CKED




A Minnesota judge has transferred the NFLPA's Tom Brady lawsuit back to New York.
The NFLPA filed the suit in Minnesota in an effort to get Judge David Doty, who has historically sided with the Player's Association. U.S. District Judge Richard Kyle saw through that, kicking the case back to Manhattan where the NFL preemptively filed. "The Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York." It's a win for the NFL as the real legal battle gets going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jetkwondo

5th Year Team Option
Jet Fanatics
Beyond the joy I find in seeing Brady held accountable :thanksgiving-leaves :happy-feet-penguin-for his part of breaking the rules I'm really looking forward to see if Brady's numbers take a dip as well as the fumbling stats returning to the league norm which Sack reminded us of ...

Of course, should that happen, Pats fans will claim it's just his age showing and new running backs added in the system... always an excuse!
 
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