Four game suspension UPHELD

[maxmet]

decision to keep this in NY is big - home field advantage for the NFL

see this interesting further discussion

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sn5vdt

 

[Elias]

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say it makes me think it is "more likely than not" that the decision will be upheld. But once a case is in the legal system, pretty much anything can happen. One piece of good news though is that I just read this AM that Judge Doty, the judge in Minnesota that always rips the league on player appeals, was not assigned to the lawsuit the NFLPA just filed. To which all I can say is:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Looks like the courts figured out what the NFLPA was trying to do by judge-shopping and called them out on it.

"The Court strongly suspects the Union filed in Minnesota because it has obtained favorable rulings from this Court in the past on behalf of its members," Judge Kyle wrote."

"Indeed, the Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Judge Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York."

 

[SackExchange]

There was zero logical reason to file in Minnesota. To me, it's just another underhanded Patriots/Brady tactic.

 

[maxmet]

Giselle accused of violating French law....and where was Tom?

http://pagesix.com/2015/07/29/franc...isguise/?_ga=1.14040116.2082321086.1438263314

 

[Jet Fan RI]

Looks like the courts figured out what the NFLPA was trying to do by judge-shopping and called them out on it.

"The Court strongly suspects the Union filed in Minnesota because it has obtained favorable rulings from this Court in the past on behalf of its members," Judge Kyle wrote."

"Indeed, the Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Judge Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York."

Yep. Think the Minnesota court is getting tired of being played like a fiddle.

 

[jets82]

Gamesmanship is bending the rules. I played OL in college, and you made sure defensive linemen had nothing to grab onto. Sometimes, you would even doctor a jersey to make it tighter, or have it barely cover your shoulder pads.

The problem with the Patriots is that they systematically seek out ways not to just bend rules, but to break them and see exactly how far they can go. It's a part of their culture, and it goes WAY beyond gamesmanship.

I used to look back with remorse at the day Belichick left the Jets. I regretted his leaving, and wished he had stayed, even after Spygate. But this latest incident was the final straw. This was the first time I was glad, actually happy, Belichick did not end up coaching the Jets. The systemic culture of cheating he created in that building and for that franchise, and the pathetic righteous indignation they show every time they are caught, has made them and their fan base an absolute embarrassment to the game. I would put up with a lot to be able to call the Jets Super Bowl champions, especially multiple Super Bowl champions. But I would not be able to tolerate my organization repeatedly acting the way the Patriots do.

I hear where your coming from and can't argue anything your saying. I played organized football also but not to that extent or as long as you did, so I will stand down to your expertise. Guess its just a matter of opinion I guess. I can understand where your coming from but I'm still having a hard time looking at this as straight up cheating and not gamesmanship or extreme gamesmanship.

In my opinion gambling is straight cheating and a integrity issue to the league. I'm not a baseball guy but if I'm correct in my analogy of what Pete Rose did, then that would be straight up cheating. Betting on games and coaching or playing to throw or alter games is totally unacceptable to me. Now that's cheating and a integrity violation all the way.

All this deflated footballs, docturing the jerseys, stickem and faking injuries falls in the same boat to me as gamesmanship. Now the spy gate, intentionally not provided an acurrate injury report prior to the required time needed and pumping extra noise from a sound machine in the stadium to effect the opposing team is going a bit to far. I say this because this isn't what the players are actually doing on the field during the game but extra shit the coaches or management are doing.

Now back in the days and I dont think teams do this anymore but making players play injured has really gone to far. Because now your dealing with how a man supports his family and his health for the future. But if a player is dumb enough to let a team force him to play injured then I would say that's on him.

Side Note: I'm glad Belibitch isn't our HC either.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

I hear where your coming from and can't argue anything your saying. I played organized football also but not to that extent or as long as you did, so I will stand down to your expertise. Guess its just a matter of opinion I guess. I can understand where your coming from but I'm still having a hard time looking at this as straight up cheating and not gamesmanship or extreme gamesmanship.

In my opinion gambling is straight cheating and a integrity issue to the league. I'm not a baseball guy but if I'm correct in my analogy of what Pete Rose did, then that would be straight up cheating. Betting on games and coaching or playing to throw or alter games is totally unacceptable to me. Now that's cheating and a integrity violation all the way.

All this deflated footballs, docturing the jerseys, stickem and faking injuries falls in the same boat to me as gamesmanship. Now the spy gate, intentionally not provided an acurrate injury report prior to the required time needed and pumping extra noise from a sound machine in the stadium to effect the opposing team is going a bit to far. I say this because this isn't what the players are actually doing on the field during the game but extra shit the coaches or management are doing.

Now back in the days and I dont think teams do this anymore but making players play injured has really gone to far. Because now your dealing with how a man supports his family and his health for the future. But if a player is dumb enough to let a team force him to play injured then I would say that's on him.

Side Note: I'm glad Belibitch isn't our HC either.

I think you are focusing too heavily on the actual deflation of footballs. Much, if not most, of Brady's suspension was based on his failure to cooperate with the investigation. Much of the upholding of the suspension on appeal was based on the destruction of his cell phone,

 

[flgreen]

I think you are focusing too heavily on the actual deflation of footballs. Much, if not most, of Brady's suspension was based on his failure to cooperate with the investigation. Much of the upholding of the suspension on appeal was based on the destruction of his cell phone,

Yep your right. As usual the cover up is worst then the crime.

if Brady just came out and said "In my heart I didn't intend to break any rules, but I informed the equipment guys i wanted the balls as low as I could. I will take full responsibility. for any misunderstanding."

he probably gets away with out a suspension

 

[jets82]

I think you are focusing too heavily on the actual deflation of footballs. Much, if not most, of Brady's suspension was based on his failure to cooperate with the investigation. Much of the upholding of the suspension on appeal was based on the destruction of his cell phone,

It appears the covering up of the offense and blantent disregard and disrespect from Brady is what has the NFL all over his ass. The offense in itself doesn't really seem to be the issue. The cover up is why he got the four games in the first place IMO. As far me I guess I am focusing more on the offense then the cover up.

 

[jets82]

Yep your right. As usual the cover up is worst then the crime.

if Brady just came out and said "In my heart I didn't intend to break any rules, but I informed the equipment guys i wanted the balls as low as I could. I will take full responsibility. for any misunderstanding."

he probably gets away with out a suspension

Agreed, plus 2, 3 and 4.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

It appears the covering up of the offense and blantent disregard and disrespect from Brady is what has the NFL all over his ass. The offense in itself doesn't really seem to be the issue. The cover up is why he got the four games in the first place IMO. As far me I guess I am focusing more on the offense then the cover up.

I think we are in agreement, but I am unsure. If you realize the punishment was primarily for the cover-up, why focus on the offense and compare it with other offenses that did not receive similar punishments? The punishments in those other cases would only have been similar if there had been similar sorts of cover-ups, which there weren't.

 

[jets82]

I think we are in agreement, but I am unsure. If you realize the punishment was primarily for the cover-up, why focus on the offense and compare it with other offenses that did not receive similar punishments? The punishments in those other cases would only have been similar if there had been similar sorts of cover-ups, which there weren't.

My whole issue is there shouldn't be a punishment period. Its all gamesmanship to me. The Colts got their asses handed to them and that's that. They should have stepped and played a better game. So should have the Jets and every other team the Pats beat.

Gamesmanship IMO is the players finding whatever angle they can on the field to get that edge to win. Whether its deflated balls, stickem on the hands, faking injuries or doctored jerseys. Its all the same shit to me and has been going on since the NFL existed. So why stop and start punishing players now?

 

[Mugatu]

My whole issue is there shouldn't be a punishment period. Its all gamesmanship to me. The Colts got their asses handed to them and that's that. They should have stepped and played a better game. So should have the Jets and every other team the Pats beat.

Gamesmanship IMO is the players finding whatever angle they can on the field to get that edge to win. Whether its deflated balls, stickem on the hands, faking injuries or doctored jerseys. Its all the same shit to me and has been going on since the NFL existed. So why stop and start punishing players now?

Ummm i think the Pats knew that their "gamesmanship" was illegal, and if you're going to engage in that sort of activity, you can't cry when you're caught. You suck it up and take your penalty

 

[Mainejet]

This still makes no sense to me.

1) Didn't Wells get the information necessary off of the equipment managers phones? They essentially had Brady's replies already, didn't they?

2) What difference does it make that Brady destroyed his cell phone? Can't the courts go directly to the wireless provider and get Brady's texts off the server?

In my mind, Brady is guilty as sin. First of all, and I have hammered this many times before, innocent people have nothing to hide. If Brady truly is innocent he'd be handing over anything in his power to make the NFL and Ted Wells go away.

Destroying your cell phone all the while knowing that Ted Wells wanted to review it are NOT the actions of the innocent. That's what people when they are attempting to cover up something.

However, if this case goes to court, I believe the courts with legally binding subpoenas and whatnot will be able to confiscate evidence of his texts. Then my hope is that the world gets to see just how truly guilty Brady was. There's NO way he is innocent. His phone will tell the truth behind hid ongoing attempts to cheat for much longer than just one game.

 

[Mainejet]

This still makes no sense to me.

1) Didn't Wells get the information necessary off of the equipment managers phones? They essentially had Brady's replies already, didn't they?

2) What difference does it make that Brady destroyed his cell phone? Can't the courts go directly to the wireless provider and get Brady's texts off the server?

In my mind, Brady is guilty as sin. First of all, and I have hammered this many times before, innocent people have nothing to hide. If Brady truly is innocent he'd be handing over anything in his power to make the NFL and Ted Wells go away.

Destroying your cell phone all the while knowing that Ted Wells wanted to review it are NOT the actions of the innocent. That's what people do when they are attempting to cover up something.

However, if this case goes to court, I believe the courts with legally binding subpoenas and whatnot will be able to confiscate evidence of his texts. Then my hope is that the world gets to see just how truly guilty Brady was. There's NO way he is innocent. His phone will tell the truth behind hid ongoing attempts to cheat for much longer than just one game.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

This still makes no sense to me.

1) Didn't Wells get the information necessary off of the equipment managers phones? They essentially had Brady's replies already, didn't they?

2) What difference does it make that Brady destroyed his cell phone? Can't the courts go directly to the wireless provider and get Brady's texts off the server?

In my mind, Brady is guilty as sin. First of all, and I have hammered this many times before, innocent people have nothing to hide. If Brady truly is innocent he'd be handing over anything in his power to make the NFL and Ted Wells go away.

Destroying your cell phone all the while knowing that Ted Wells wanted to review it are NOT the actions of the innocent. That's what people do when they are attempting to cover up something.

However, if this case goes to court, I believe the courts with legally binding subpoenas and whatnot will be able to confiscate evidence of his texts. Then my hope is that the world gets to see just how truly guilty Brady was. There's NO way he is innocent. His phone will tell the truth behind hid ongoing attempts to cheat for much longer than just one game.

As it turns out, providers of texting services wipe out the texts themselves in a very short time, a few months or less. So the only places the texts would exist would be on the devices that sent or received them. Only records of sender and receiver are kept long term, I believe.

 

[SackExchange]

Is this any different than a pitcher conspiring to doctor up baseballs? Maybe get an equipment manager to sew a piece of sandpaper in the glove?

MLB would sure go after the offending pitcher. It's not gamesmanship, it's cheating.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

Is this any different than a pitcher conspiring to doctor up baseballs? Maybe get an equipment manager to sew a piece of sandpaper in the glove?

MLB would sure go after the offending pitcher. It's not gamesmanship, it's cheating.

I would say this is even worse than that. Umpires don't inspect gloves before games. In this case the doctoring of the balls happened after officials already checked them. A flagrant undermining of the officials' authority.

 

[mykcuz]

The ump inspects the balls every couple of pitches. That's when you see them throb a fresh ball instead of the catcher.

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[mykcuz]

By your definition, the nfl shouldn't punish any cheating, because it's done in a competitive spirit?
The outcome of the game doesn't dictate if you cheated or not.

Again, if they beat the Colts so badly, why did they risk cheating? It's absolutely stupid.

Regardless, if you fail a steroids test, you are suspended. You don't say, well I would have won without the steroids so therefore I shouldn't get in trouble.

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