Guns and Gun Violent

[ucrenegade]

Your assumption is that if someone had a gun they could have stopped the shooting.... I don't doubt it, if that person was properly trained on responding to a terrorism attack.

Otherwise I somehow doubt that a civilian could quickly and effectively respond to a multiple shooter situation like they had in SB.

I would bet there would be just as likely be bystanders killed by those returning fire in a crowded and panicked auditorium.

Mandatory and high level gun training would be a good start for everyone who wants a concealed carry permit. I mean VERY rigorous training. The problem is that a lot of those who want to carry even see training as some sort of affront to their 2nd amendment rights.

There has to be a compromise between the insane gun lobby stance of zero control and that of outright banning. The problem is that the NRA is simply a mouthpiece for the gun industry and aren't really interested in changing anything that might slow down the purchase rate of weapons.

It's too bad gun owners line up behind an organization that represents the gun lobby and not the best interests of gun owners.

I looked up how to get a concealed permit and you have to pass a gun course so yes you do get training. It's not about gun-control it's about how easy it is to get guns illegally, while I do agree we could be stricter on our background checks for people buying legally that doesn't mean you need to take them away.

 

[ucrenegade]

They were pinned in so if someone had a gun they would not be shooting off into the crowd.

 

[Mugatu]

They were pinned in so if someone had a gun they would not be shooting off into the crowd.

You don't know that.... Have you been in a emergency scenario? I have, it wasn't a shooting, but a fire and natural gas explosion. It was 2003 and I can tell you that most people thought it was a bombing of some sort. It was pure chaos... People were crawling over each other to get away. I hit the deck behind a pop machine and was fine but there were as many people injured by the rush from the accident as there was in the incident itself.

You cannot expect that people will have the capacity to be able to respond to threats in an effective way.... The police are trained for years for these events and are experts and even then they don't get it right all the time.

There isn't an easy answer to counter these threats. In fact I think we are all deluding ourselves if we think we can do a damn thing to stop one of these attacks once they have begun.

They need to be stopped before they start. Better policing and more resources are the keys, not a dozen yokels with their six shooters ready to go at all times.

I think it's quite ironic that the only shooting that has been stopped recently was by three unarmed soldiers on that train in France.

 

[Mugatu]

I looked up how to get a concealed permit and you have to pass a gun course so yes you do get training. It's not about gun-control it's about how easy it is to get guns illegally, while I do agree we could be stricter on our background checks for people buying legally that doesn't mean you need to take them away.

Gun control doesn't mean taking guns away, it means implementing balances that allow responsible gun owners to preserve their rights to own a weapon, but also the concession that some sort of safeguards must be in place to monitor those who intend to do harm.

Right now the NRA is opposing controls on people on the no-fly list. Why would they do this? Because they benefit each time a tragedy happens....gun sales go through the roof.

 

[ucrenegade]

There are laws today that allow just about any loon walk into a gun show and purchase a weapon with no checks whatsoever.... So yes you need stronger gun control laws.

Sounds more like they need to enforce the gun shows better to me. If you purchase a gun in a gun shop or at say walmart you have to fill out a lot of paperwork and then it gets sent off to the DEA or another company that does the background checks and then if you pass they will let you know and you can call the customer and have him come pick-up the gun.

I am not sure about gun stores they may be able to get results faster I am not sure. It however is not a case of you or the average person walking in filling out your name and address only then paying and walking out with a gun that same day as these liberal democrats want people to believe.

 

[ucrenegade]

You don't know that.... Have you been in a emergency scenario? I have, it wasn't a shooting, but a fire and natural gas explosion. It was 2003 and I can tell you that most people thought it was a bombing of some sort. It was pure chaos... People were crawling over each other to get away. I hit the deck behind a pop machine and was fine but there were as many people injured by the rush from the accident as there was in the incident itself.

You cannot expect that people will have the capacity to be able to respond to threats in an effective way.... The police are trained for years for these events and are experts and even then they don't get it right all the time.

There isn't an easy answer to counter these threats. In fact I think we are all deluding ourselves if we think we can do a damn thing to stop one of these attacks once they have begun.

They need to be stopped before they start. Better policing and more resources are the keys, not a dozen yokels with their six shooters ready to go at all times.

I think it's quite ironic that the only shooting that has been stopped recently was by three unarmed soldiers on that train in France.

the mother who shot the guy who tried to break in says hi. You don't know your right how people will react but out of 5-10 people i doubt all will run. I am sure someone will stand up and that is what we need for that one person to not run and stop so that although a few may die in the initial attack it doesn't have to go on because people or even one guy can fire back that is all it will take for someone who is attacking is to have to worry about bullet's flying their way also rather than knowing they can stand up in the open and just fire away because everyone else is unarmed.

 

[Elias]

[MENTION=171]Mugatu[/MENTION] -- I agree completely with everything you said. Gun control is the answer for a lot of these issues.

Obviously bombs will be made but those things are much easier to track than someone buying a gun.

 

[mykcuz]

Gun control doesn't mean taking guns away, it means implementing balances that allow responsible gun owners to preserve their rights to own a weapon, but also the concession that some sort of safeguards must be in place to monitor those who intend to do harm.

Right now the NRA is opposing controls on people on the no-fly list. Why would they do this? Because they benefit each time a tragedy happens....gun sales go through the roof.

You may want to look into the no fly list, you will find that if you piss someone off, they can report you to the no fly list. The us approves 99% of those reported, and even dead people can't get off the list. So while you think it's a no brainer,is because you don't know what you're talking about.

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[mykcuz]

Gun control doesn't mean taking guns away, it means implementing balances that allow responsible gun owners to preserve their rights to own a weapon, but also the concession that some sort of safeguards must be in place to monitor those who intend to do harm.

Right now the NRA is opposing controls on people on the no-fly list. Why would they do this? Because they benefit each time a tragedy happens....gun sales go through the roof.

The nra in no way benefits from gun sales, I'd like you to explain that comment.

The issue with gun training, as it is here in nj, is that it is a de facto way to eliminate gun ownership. No one passes the test, no one gets a gun. Who makes the test?

Gun ownership is a constitutional right, there is no test to exercise a right. Where is the voting test, the free speech test, the religion test?

Look up shooting statistics, there were 4 mass shootings last year, and more people will die in car accidents today, then have been in mass shootings all year.

Every mass shooter except 2,since 1982, have been mentally ill males. Sb was terrorism, and only the 2nd female shooter in the same time frame. They got their guns legally in a highly gun controlled state. The wife also pledged allegiance to ISIS, and then was granted her visa by Obama. Obama eased visas since 2008,so that no face to face contact occurs to be approved. That's excellent vetting.

Also, could you please cite the last murder committed by a member of the nra?

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[mykcuz]

[MENTION=171]Mugatu[/MENTION] -- I agree completely with everything you said. Gun control is the answer for a lot of these issues.

Obviously bombs will be made but those things are much easier to track than someone buying a gun.

The shooters also had a"bomb factory"in their house. Taking away an American right of 300 million people, will not stop murders, or gun violence. The government doing their job in vetting immigrants, ending our open border policy, and getting a president who is serious with his responsibilities will go a long way.

I believe that immigrants are mandatory, give me your hungry and poor, because we are fat and lazy, and need hard workers to be competitive. But be vigilant in actually making an effort to let those who are well intentioned in.

Close the borders to illegal trafficking of drugs, guns, and people. And give border agents enough resources to properly run the entry points.

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[LGM]

I'm certain that the NRA supports bomb factories under the Second Amendment

Sadly no Presidents have the courage to declare it the Terrorist Organization it clearly is, freeze its funds, close its offices, declare LaPierre and the rest of its leadership enemy combatants and confiscate all donor records to begin rounding up and locking all of them up

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[mykcuz]

http://www.expressnews.com/news/us-...-more-transparency-on-no-fly-list-6687720.php

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[Mugatu]

N

The nra in no way benefits from gun sales, I'd like you to explain that comment.

The issue with gun training, as it is here in nj, is that it is a de facto way to eliminate gun ownership. No one passes the test, no one gets a gun. Who makes the test?

Gun ownership is a constitutional right, there is no test to exercise a right. Where is the voting test, the free speech test, the religion test?

Look up shooting statistics, there were 4 mass shootings last year, and more people will die in car accidents today, then have been in mass shootings all year.

Every mass shooter except 2,since 1982, have been mentally ill males. Sb was terrorism, and only the 2nd female shooter in the same time frame. They got their guns legally in a highly gun controlled state. The wife also pledged allegiance to ISIS, and then was granted her visa by Obama. Obama eased visas since 2008,so that no face to face contact occurs to be approved. That's excellent vetting.

Also, could you please cite the last murder committed by a member of the nra?

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The NRA doesn't benefit from gun sales? Who exactly do you think was the driving force behind the NRA the past 50 years? You can't possibly be naive enough to think it's regular day to day gun owners.

 

[Mugatu]

You may want to look into the no fly list, you will find that if you piss someone off, they can report you to the no fly list. The us approves 99% of those reported, and even dead people can't get off the list. So while you think it's a no brainer,is because you don't know what you're talking about.

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So the price for potential terrorists being unable to easily purchase a weapon is that a few people on the list mistakenly may have to clear up their status? Uhhhh. Yeah OK. Good trade

 

[WestCoastOffensive]

The sad thing is americans are going to be duped and blame GOD for the muslim religion but the GOD they serve is not the GOD of the bible but they want you to believe it is.

I agree that most Americans need to be informed. Public safety comes first. Can Americans be taught how to see these wolves, as they try to hide in their neighborhoods? How can we see these predators before they do damage?

That's on my mind.