Hopeful for Geno Smith for 2015 season (Long read)

Elias

The Invisible Man
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There's no doubt watching Geno Smith QB in the last two seasons has been extremely frustrating. If you go back and read some of the posts I made here, I am on the record saying that Geno didn’t pass the eye test but now that I had some time to think about next year, I do not think I am ready to give up just yet. I have hopes for him heading into next year because he will be under the tutelage of Chan Gailey. A man that has gotten career years out of Kordell Stewart, Jay Fiedler, Tyler Thigpen and Ryan Fitzpatrick, why wouldn’t he be able to do the same with Geno?

The first thing that Geno has on his side is his age. He is still only 24 years old. Since his rookie year he has been thrown into the fire and this blame could be placed onto no other than the Rex Ryan/John Idzik regime. I always laugh at how adamant [MENTION=82]sg3[/MENTION] is with his WRECKS talk every five minutes but I think when it comes to QBs that nickname is warranted and well deserved. I love Rex Ryan by the way but he was a flawed head coach.

Coming out of college, everyone knew that Smith was not supposed to start right away. For that matter, the Jets were not even looking to suit him up but have him as the third string/emergency QB for 2013. The extreme couponer himself, Idzik, found David Garrard in the garbage somewhere and brought him in to compete with Geno and Mark Sanchez. Unfortunately, Garrard was unable to make the comeback and retired before the 2013 preseason. This left Geno to compete against Sanchez for the starting nod. As expected, he was losing the QB battle but then, against the Giants, Rex got cute and put Sanchez in with second and third stringers. We all remember what happened next, Sanchez hurt his shoulder and was deemed out for the year.

Geno was forced into the starting line up as an unpolished rookie (who didn’t know how to play under center) with a receiving core of Stephen Hill, Jeremy Kerley, Santonio Holmes and David Nelson. Hill was invisible, Holmes was oft-injured and barely had a presence on the field and Nelson came onto the team mid-year. The only bright spot on our receiving core was Kerley. He impressed many of us but after looking at his stats he was ranked 86th in receiving yards. Truth be told, Kerley is nothing more than a third wide receiver, if that.

In 2014, the Jets tried to address the WR issue by acquiring Decker but the team still lacked a second wide receiver until Idzik realized his mistake (not drafting an impact WR in the draft or signing DeSean Jackson when he was available in the offseason) and traded for Percy Harvin. Smith finally had another decent weapon to throw the ball to. Many would argue that Harvin is not a true WR but he did in fact help Smith. With Harvin plugged in at the second WR slot, Geno threw the ball at a 60% clip vs. 57% prior to the trade. Not that big of a difference but it helped open up the field a bit.

Geno is very streaky. When things are going well they go very well and when they are not, they go real bad. In the final four games of the season, Geno threw for a 65% completion rate, 6 TDs and Two Interceptions. Overall in 2014, compared to 2013, Geno threw for more TDs and threw less interceptions despite playing in less games. To quote one of our posters [MENTION=79]Little John Flowers[/MENTION] (his post inspired this):

Believe it or not, Geno Smith showed improvement in QB Rating (77.5 vs 66.4), accuracy % (67.4% to 72.3%), interception % (4.7 to 3.5) and completion % (55.8 to 59.7).

After the benching, his improvement was even better. Anyone have any numbers showing his performance with and without Harvin on the field? I also noticed that when Smith gets rid of the ball within 2.5 seconds, his rating is astonishingly ... among the top five NFL QBs. After that ... not so good. He needs to improve under pressure. Replacing Winters with Aboushi obviously helped because he was under pressure less.

In any event, Smith's improvement was significant.

Let's all hope he spends his off season practicing football and keeping his penis off the internet.

Little John is right, Geno is good when not under pressure, unfortunately, according to PFF he was under pressure 40% of his dropbacks -- the third highest in the league last season. (Disclaimer: I think I am reading these stats correctly. I feel like PFF's stats could be presented better. I am not a numbers guy)

Continuing on that point, take a look at the stats below from PFF. When Geno is not under pressure, he has a QB rating of 89.8. I do wish his TD:INT was a bit better but at least he is throwing the ball like a QB here and moving the chains.

Geno Smith Under Pressure.jpg

View attachment 314

Based off the table above, it's clear that if Geno doesn't have to think as much and process the defense, he can have some success (don't see this as a knock, he is young). So now this is where I think Gailey and the Spread Offense would work wonders. Geno is pretty mobile for a QB and has used his legs as a weapon before. I believe Gailey will more than likely use Geno's mobility to his advantage roll him out often, whether it's in the pistol formation or out of shotgun. This will essentially take away half of the field, so he isn't forced to think as much. This is where it will be up to Geno to improve and make the right decision, if it's there, throw it. If not, make the smart play and either run it for a gain or throw the ball away.

In my opinion, Geno's strength is in the short and intermediate passing game. He excelled doing that in college and with the right weapons, I can see him exceling in the pros. If we sign Spiller and utilized our other weapons in the short passing game (Amaro, maybe Harvin), I can see the streaky Geno getting in a rhythm and succeeding.

There is no denying Smith is a hard worker. Everything I read about him shows me that he wants to succeed. Now he just needs to put it all together on the field. Only QB I want from this years crop of prospects is Winston. If Winston doesn’t fall in our lap, I am prepared to battle with Geno at least for one more year. I would still bring on a veteran, whether it's Locker, Fitzpatrick or Hoyer to try to give Geno a run for his money. But the point is, I think we are heading in the right direction with the Gailey Hire and do not think it is the end of the world if we stick with Smith and develop the rest of the team albeit WR, OLB, CB, S, OL, etc.

Am I on crack?:stoned-smiley:
 

BlindsideD'Brick

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
No, you're not on crack.

That was a lengthy read, but a well-reasoned one. I agree. Geno should have competition. A rookie and a veteran. May the best man win. I'm a Jets fan first. And I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong about a player. Geno gets one more year with a new OC and hopefully another weapon or two on offense. And who knows? Maybe even some better protection from a few additions to the OL.

If Geno falls on his face, I'll admit he's a bust. But I'm still holding out some hope for the kid.
 

NickSINYC

Veteran
Jet Fanatics
No, you're not on crack.

That was a lengthy read, but a well-reasoned one. I agree. Geno should have competition. A rookie and a veteran. May the best man win. I'm a Jets fan first. And I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong about a player. Geno gets one more year with a new OC and hopefully another weapon or two on offense. And who knows? Maybe even some better protection from a few additions to the OL.

If Geno falls on his face, I'll admit he's a bust. But I'm still holding out some hope for the kid.

this
 
S

sg3

Guest
Hopeful??

Probably closer to HOPELESS

vet FA, draft pick, Simms....the Jet QBS for 2015
 
U

ucrenegade

Guest
I agree with the post very much but only because we have gailey, I still don't think geno is anywhere near a franchise QB but I do see him having more success if he starts under gailey than not.
 

jets82

Curious George
Jet Fanatics
Give Geno or any QB a roster like Decker, Kerley a rookie WR like Cooper, White or Parker and HOPEFULLY a cut but then signed Harvin at around $4-5 mil and Geno will improve. He has to, who wouldn't with WRs like that! Also lets not forget Amaro, Cumberland, Ivory, a beefed up o-line (however they get it and another RB they get from the draft or FA). Geno is very capable of improving with the new regime and Gailey working with him and hopefully these kinds of weapons with him and he will improve.
 

soj

retired Veteran
Jet Fanatics
E, well thought out post and reasonable. But I lost faith in him ..his decision making is terrible, foot work is still a problem and most of all his ball security is as bad or worst then Mark S.

He may - key phase here - get better and I hope your right about Gaily using him effectively but call me jaded because I have no faith in him.
 

Elias

The Invisible Man
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E, well thought out post and reasonable. But I lost faith in him ..his decision making is terrible, foot work is still a problem and most of all his ball security is as bad or worst then Mark S.

He may - key phase here - get better and I hope your right about Gaily using him effectively but call me jaded because I have no faith in him.

I can't blame you for being jaded at this point. His turnovers are killers. I just hope that he could improve at the same rate that he did in 2013 vs. 2014.
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
Your post Elias made me think of something. In the past, QB's used to have to hold a clipboard on the sidelines for 3-4 years. In the current era, they are now more often than not rushed in within less than a season. Lots of those who are rushed in quickly fail. I am wondering how many of the old QB's of the past would have also failed if they had been rushed in quickly. I also wonder how many of the guys who were rushed in quickly and failed would have succeeded if they had been given more time to mature on the sideline.

And then we come to the case of a guy like Geno. Who certainly seems to fall into into the category of having been rushed in and failing, and many are wondering if he should be dumped right now or given another season to succeed. How many QB's can you think of who fall into that category? That is, who can you name (if anybody) who was rushed in, did very poorly for a year or two, then turned it around and succeeded later on?
 

Elias

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Your post Elias made me think of something. In the past, QB's used to have to hold a clipboard on the sidelines for 3-4 years. In the current era, they are now more often than not rushed in within less than a season. Lots of those who are rushed in quickly fail. I am wondering how many of the old QB's of the past would have also failed if they had been rushed in quickly. I also wonder how many of the guys who were rushed in quickly and failed would have succeeded if they had been given more time to mature on the sideline.

And then we come to the case of a guy like Geno. Who certainly seems to fall into into the category of having been rushed in and failing, and many are wondering if he should be dumped right now or given another season to succeed. How many QB's can you think of who fall into that category? That is, who can you name (if anybody) who was rushed in, did very poorly for a year or two, then turned it around and succeeded later on?

I will look into this tonight. I agree on this though. What has changed over the past few years that these young guys are being thrusted into the starting role? It's all about the $. Many QBs coming out of college play the spread, which is not an NFL style offense. They of course need the time to develop.

Blaine Gabbert is a QB that comes to mind. He was a spread QB and then was asked to carry the crappy Jags team. Impossible task.
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
I will look into this tonight. I agree on this though. What has changed over the past few years that these young guys are being thrusted into the starting role? It's all about the $. Many QBs coming out of college play the spread, which is not an NFL style offense. They of course need the time to develop.

Blaine Gabbert is a QB that comes to mind. He was a spread QB and then was asked to carry the crappy Jags team. Impossible task.

The $ is a major factor of course. But then there are also QB's that did work out pretty quick. I don't remember the timings, but I do seem to recall Flacco and Matt Ryan were pretty good from the start. Some others as well. So other teams probably wondered "what are we waiting for?" Unfortunately, so much of a QB's success depends on the players around him, it's hard to draw general conclusions from a few special cases.
 
S

sg3

Guest
The days of QBS hanging around for multiple seasons before playing are pretty much long gone in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers is the rare exception because he fell to the back half of round one and GB had Favre. The highly ranked QBS in the draft generally go early and usually to teams that need a QB

I expect Winston to start for the Bucs and Mariota to start for, hopefully, the Jets sometime early in 2015, backed up by a FA vet and Matt Simms
 

Bronx

Repeat Offender Pro Bowler
Jet Fanatics
I have no problem with Geno competing with a Glennon or Foles next season
 

OCCH

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
I agree with the post very much but only because we have gailey, I still don't think geno is anywhere near a franchise QB but I do see him having more success if he starts under gailey than not.

I want to be hopeful with Gailey, but I thought Morningwheg was a good OC hire too -- then he comes here and continues the string of inept Jet offenses.

Did MM forget how to coach, or was he limited to what Geno was able to comprehend? And if it's the latter, Gailey might be limited as well. Which is why we HAVE to give the ball to whoever is the best option on the roster -- I don't need another season's worth of 3-and-outs before Oct. 1 . . .
 
G

GreenReaper

Guest
Geno is still in the Mix for this season. But that's about it for me. You have to bring in through the draft another QB prospect. Be it at #6 pick of draft with Mariota or in the 2nd round with Petty or Hundley.

Then get a veteran that can beat out Geno for that starting job. If Geno plays light out in TC-preseason and earns to start the season. It will be his last shot to prove himself. IMO...he won't hold on to it.
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
I will look into this tonight. I agree on this though. What has changed over the past few years that these young guys are being thrusted into the starting role? It's all about the $. Many QBs coming out of college play the spread, which is not an NFL style offense. They of course need the time to develop.

Blaine Gabbert is a QB that comes to mind. He was a spread QB and then was asked to carry the crappy Jags team. Impossible task.

Couldn't help but notice you have not mentioned any QB's who had a rough first couple years after being rushed to start as a rookie but then went onto succeed. Don't know whether you have not had a chance to look into it or whether you did look into it and could not find anybody. If that's the case, it appears we may be expecting the never-been-done-before to happen with Geno.
 

Elias

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Couldn't help but notice you have not mentioned any QB's who had a rough first couple years after being rushed to start as a rookie but then went onto succeed. Don't know whether you have not had a chance to look into it or whether you did look into it and could not find anybody. If that's the case, it appears we may be expecting the never-been-done-before to happen with Geno.

Didnt look into it yet but god, I hope you're not right that we are asking Geno to do the unthinkable...

What about Alex Smith? Does he fit in that group? I know he isn't a good player but he is serviceable after being written off as a bust.

Kurt Warner? Trent Green? These two might fall under the undiscovered category though.
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
Didnt look into it yet but god, I hope you're not right that we are asking Geno to do the unthinkable...

What about Alex Smith? Does he fit in that group? I know he isn't a good player but he is serviceable after being written off as a bust.

Kurt Warner? Trent Green? These two might fall under the undiscovered category though.

Don't recall much of the early history of Alex Smith or Trent Green, but I do recall the history of Kurt Warner. He was actually playing in arena football before coming back to win a SB with the Rams. So he's more like Jim Plunkett who really didn't do much with his original team (Pats) but then won a SB for the Raiders many years later. We sure don't want Geno to fail with the Jets then win a 'Bowl with some other team in 10 years.

I also hope we aren't asking the impossible of Geno.
 

Elias

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[MENTION=205]Jet Fan RI[/MENTION]:

I found an article that answers this question. It was written in defense of Manziel who has had an epic disaster of a first season. I don't think everyone on the list makes sense but Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Fran Tarkenton, John Elway. Take a look and let me know your thoughts.

Below -- presented in alphabetical order -- is a list of seven top-tier quarterbacks who endured ignominious beginnings to their respective NFL careers:

Troy Aikman

Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Dallas Cowboys in 1989.

First start: Loss (28-0) to the Saints in Week 1 of 1989; 17 of 35 (48.6 percent) for 180 yards, zero touchdowns, two interceptions, two sacks and a passer rating of 40.2.

Aikman -- whom I helped scout and draft -- was thrown right into the mix as a rookie. While he didn't seem lost or overwhelmed at all in that first game, he finished his first season -- which was interrupted by a broken finger that cost him five games -- with nine touchdowns against 18 interceptions while averaging just 5.9 yards per pass. Those are not very good numbers. In fact, it wasn't until his third year in the NFL that he managed to throw more touchdowns (11) than picks (10).


So what -- aside from playing for a team that finished 1-15 a year after going 3-13 -- held Aikman back in that first start and the rest of Year 1? I think, in general, a lot of rookie quarterbacks are surprised by the complexity of the game at the pro level and the sophistication of their opponents -- how well people disguise coverages and how effectively they exploit weaknesses. Even while he struggled, though, Aikman still threw a big ball and showed excellent accuracy. Norv Turner -- Aikman's offensive coordinator from 1991 to 1993 -- will tell you he's never seen a quarterback as accurate as this guy.

John Elway

Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Baltimore Colts in 1983 (traded to Denver Broncos).

First start: Win (14-10) over the Steelers in Week 1 of 1983; 1 of 8 (12.5 percent) for 14 yards, zero touchdowns, one interception, four sacks and a passer rating of 0.

Elway's debut was marred by an elbow injury that forced him out of the game, but his second start (9 of 21 for 106 yards, zero touchdowns and three sacks) wasn't much better. He went on to have a relatively rough rookie season -- 7:14 TD-to-INT ratio and 28 sacks in 11 games -- in which he was benched after three consecutive losses. But he also was part of a team that made the playoffs that year, and he ended up leading the Broncos to three Super Bowl appearances, five playoff berths and six winning seasons over the next nine years. Still, in many ways, the jury was still out on the quarterback, who threw just one more touchdown pass (158) than he did picks (157) from 1983 to 1992. He was kind of like a wild colt, so to speak, in that he would run around and scramble somewhat recklessly and make risky throws across his body.

In 1993, he seemed to turn a corner, and he really took off in 1995, when Mike Shanahan -- who spent two previous stints on Denver's staff during Elway's career -- became the Broncos' head coach. In the final four years of his career, Elway posted a record of 43-16, threw 101 touchdown passes against 49 picks and, of course, won two Super Bowls.

Andrew Luck

Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Indianapolis Colts in 2012.

First start: Loss (41-21) to the Bears in Week 1 of 2012; 23 of 45 (51.1 percent) for 309 yards, one touchdown, three interceptions, three sacks and a passer rating of 52.9.

Luck struggled some initially with the speed of the game and maybe tried to force the ball more than he should have. But he seemed to compress the normal timeframe of development for a rookie quarterback, bouncing back from a 1-2 start to lift Indy to an 11-5 record and a playoff berth. The Colts' relatively easy schedule and roster -- which, though it lacked some pieces, was better than what most No. 1 picks have to work with in Year 1 -- helped. But Luck also showed a knack for winning games, compiling seven game-winning drives as a rookie. It couldn't have hurt that his father, Oliver Luck, and his college coach, Jim Harbaugh, were both former NFL quarterbacks.

Peyton Manning

Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Indianapolis Colts in 1998.

First start: Loss (24-15) to the Dolphins in Week 1 of 1998; 21 of 37 (56.8 percent) for 302 yards, one touchdown, three interceptions, four sacks and a passer rating of 58.6.

Manning has, of course, become one of the premier quarterbacks in the game, earning 13 Pro Bowl nods and five MVP awards in 14 years with the Colts and two-plus years with the Denver Broncos. And though he set what was then a rookie record with 3,739 yards, he also went 3-13 in his first year with Indy -- and believe me when I tell you that a lot of people were asking whether he was good enough to hack it. In fact, after a less-than-stellar performance in a Week 5 victory over Ryan Leaf's Chargers that season, there were even some folks hollering that Indy should've taken Leaf instead of Manning with the first overall pick in the 1998 NFL Draft.


That Manning -- who was very well coached at Tennessee and has such a great understanding of the game -- stumbled out of the gate like that just illustrates how hard it is to start right away as a rookie, especially with the competitive balance being so great in the NFL. Of course, Manning was a tireless worker even then, and, with the help of assistant Tom Moore, grew into the all-time talent we know today.

Alex Smith

Drafted: No. 1 overall by the San Francisco 49ers in 2005.

First start: Loss (28-3) to the Colts in Week 5 of 2005; 9 of 23 (39.1 percent) for 74 yards, zero touchdowns, four interceptions, five sacks and a passer rating of 8.5.

Smith is very smart, but it took time for that to translate to the NFL gridiron. He had a horrifically bad rookie year, taking 29 sacks and throwing 11 picks in just nine games (seven starts) while posting a sub-40 passer rating four times. Smith didn't find the end zone until the final game of the season, a 20-17 win over Houston. He seemed reluctant to throw downfield and didn't break out of checkdown mode for years.

It wasn't that Smith, who was neck and neck with Aaron Rodgers in my pre-draft scouting as a prospect, lacked talent. I think a key factor was that he just didn't get as lucky as other guys did in terms of the kind of coaching he received as a rookie. When Jim Harbaugh arrived in 2011, he turned Smith into a good quarterback, and the signal-caller has continued to thrive with the Chiefs under Andy Reid. Just look at his numbers since '11: 38-15-1 record with a TD-to-INT ratio of 71:23.

Fran Tarkenton

Drafted: No. 29 overall (third round) by the Minnesota Vikings in 1961.

First start: Loss (21-7) to the Cowboys in Week 2 of 1961; 8 of 24 (33.3 percent) for 117 yards, zero touchdowns, two interceptions, three sacks and a passer rating of 15.5.

Tarkenton's first official start paled in comparison to what he accomplished in his true debut the week before, when he came off the bench to complete 74 percent of his passes for 250 yards and contribute five touchdowns (four in the air and one on the ground) to a 37-13 win over the Bears -- the first ever victory for the Vikings franchise. The rest of his season was a bit rockier, as he went 2-8 in 10 starts while posting a TD-to-INT ratio of 18:17 over 14 games. He had mixed results over the next few years before being traded to the Giants in 1967. This, he recently told me in a conversation on the phone, is when he turned his career around, installing the offense himself and calling the plays in New York as a 27-year-old quarterback; he credits himself as being the person most responsible for his ascension.

After a successful stint in New York, Tarkenton was traded back to the Vikings in 1972 -- and proceeded to make the playoffs from 1973 to 1978, going on a run that included three Super Bowl appearances and saw him win the MVP award in 1975. He was a scrambler who overcame a lack of height -- he was 6 feet if you stretched him out -- and learned how to complement his scrambling ability with his arm.

Steve Young

Drafted: No. 1 by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the 1984 supplemental draft.

First start: Win (19-16, OT) over the Lions in Week 12 of 1985; 16 of 27 (59.3 percent) for 167 yards, zero touchdowns, zero interceptions, six sacks and a passer rating of 77.2; 10 carries for 60 yards.

Young wasn't exactly a rookie when he entered the NFL, having spent two years with the Los Angeles Express of the USFL before going to Tampa Bay. Perhaps Young became used to the lesser competition he saw in his first pro league, because he struggled with the Bucs, compiling a record of 3-16 as a starter while throwing nearly twice as many interceptions (21) as he did touchdown passes (11). Tampa Bay shipped him to San Francisco for a second- and a fourth-round pick in 1987 -- laying the groundwork for his career to take off into the stratosphere.

Even that took time, of course, as Joe Montana was entrenched at quarterback when Young joined the Niners. But ultimately, coach Bill Walsh and his West Coast system shaped Young into the man who won two MVP awards and helped San Francisco score the third-most points in Super Bowl history in a 49-26 win over San Dieg

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000445192/article/troy-aikman-peyton-manning-among-qbs-with-bad-first-starts
 

cysporsche

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
Assuming that Simms is done, I'd draft Petty @ 37 and sign on the cheap Jake Locker. That would create better competition @ QB.
1) Geno Smith
2) Jake Locker
3) Bryce Petty

Go Jets...Cyborg
 
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