JFU Breakdown: Defense

[gmf1369]

The Mystery: Secondary

CB
a) Morris Claiborne
b) Juston Burris
c) Buster Skrine

DB
1) Dexter McDougle
2) Marcus Williams

FS
a) Doug Middleton
b) Ronald Martin

SS
a) Calvin Pryor
b) Rontez Miles

IR
1) Marcus Gilchrist

Regardless if we draft one or two defensive backs it will have to be at least one safety and one corner, being that this draft is deep we will be capable of improving this unit... Is Doug Middleton ready to take the reigns, is Ronald Martin on the bubble and is Calvin Pryor on the trade block... Marcus Gilchrist recovery is a question mark at this point... We do know this Marcus Williams has potential at corner but also showed versatility at safety, this gives the coaching staff the ability to match-up well against opponents...

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The Inconsistent: Linebackers

Edge
a) Corey Lemonier
b) Lorenzo Mauldin

LB
a) Freddie Bishop
b) Frank Beltre

Weak
a) Jordan Jenkins
b) Randall Johnson

Mike
a) David Harris
b) Julian Stanford

Will
a) Darron Lee
b) Jeff Luc

Like the secondary the linebackers are very important in tying both the secondary coverage to the pressure from the defensive line... Looking at this unit there is promise but there is some uncertainty with a few players... Debate all you want but we can not criticize who Darron Lee may become until at least year three of his young career... Lemonier got a new contract just from the promise he showed in his limited play, he could be the answer we have been seeking for awhile as that edge linebacker... We should be in the market for a run defender "Mike LB" not only to be the understudy to career Jet David Harris but become his near future replacement (1 year)... Players like Jeff Luc, Randall Johnson and Frack Beltre are vying for roster spots and all three should be considered on the bubble this off season/preseason... Even Lorenzo Mauldin who has showed glimpses could also be considered his boom or bust year, durability is his issue...

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Unsuccessful Marriage: Defensive Line

Bull
a) Muhammad Wilkerson
b) Claude Pelon

Nose
a) Leonard Williams
b) Deon Simon

Rush
a) Sheldon Richardson
b) Lawrence Thomas

DL
1) Steve McClendon
2) Mike Pennel
3) Julian Obioha
4) Brandin Bryant
5) Kenny Anunike
6) Anthony Johnson

Really didn't realize how deep we are at this position, well group... Going to be interesting on if players like Obioha, B. Bryant, Anunike can push to make the roster... Expect these three to be long shots... Another player Anthony Johnson who showed he can be a solid situational player could end up being on the bubble this upcoming preseason... Have to expect former USC Trojan and team mate of Leonard "Big Cat" Williams in Claude Pelon should be in line to make the active 53... If we do trade GodForShort, hopefully Lawrence Thomas whose first season showed immense potential can step in and replace him with Pelon as his role player... Another player in question is Steve McClendon with the signing of former Packer Mike Pennel... Will be a very interesting off season, training camp and preseason... This unit needs to play together to not only anchor but set the tone of our defensive presence...

 

[Mainejet]

A few things.......

1) It's hard to imagine the way the secondary in general fell off last season? They went from an assumed strength of the team to god awful in one season. That's a direct reflection of poor coaching.

2) Ultimately, you are correct about Darron Lee. He cannot be judged until year 3. But there are a few things we know already. He cannot play inside. He got owned consistently this season playing inside. Even having so much talent at DL in front of him, he would always get consumed by lead blockers. The very second he got engaged by a lineman? It was all over. They are going to either get him to gain weight and try him again on the inside or they are going to have him tested at OLB. Either way he's going to have to add weight, if he hasn't already? That's just simple physics.

Or maybe they'll decide that he's best suited playing Safety? I figure either way the CS still has a LOT of work to do with him.

The linebackers overall is an area that Mac has invested a lot of picks and money into. Meanwhile, not getting very good returns at all. This unit should be FINISHED by now. Completely overhauled and really no ideas to have to tweak that unit? Instead they have been a major disappointment, especially last season. As fans we should EXPECT to see major improvements in this unit, regardless of whether Mac decides to take another linebacker in this draft? Right now they are almost as disappointing as the secondary.

There's really nowhere for these units to go but UP. But I still doubt the CS can get the best out of the players? Do any of the defensive coaches, including Toilet, inspire confidence in you?

 

[gmf1369]

A few things.......

1) It's hard to imagine the way the secondary in general fell off last season? They went from an assumed strength of the team to god awful in one season. That's a direct reflection of poor coaching.

2) Ultimately, you are correct about Darron Lee. He cannot be judged until year 3. But there are a few things we know already. He cannot play inside. He got owned consistently this season playing inside. Even having so much talent at DL in front of him, he would always get consumed by lead blockers. The very second he got engaged by a lineman? It was all over. They are going to either get him to gain weight and try him again on the inside or they are going to have him tested at OLB. Either way he's going to have to add weight, if he hasn't already? That's just simple physics.

Or maybe they'll decide that he's best suited playing Safety? I figure either way the CS still has a LOT of work to do with him.

The linebackers overall is an area that Mac has invested a lot of picks and money into. Meanwhile, not getting very good returns at all. This unit should be FINISHED by now. Completely overhauled and really no ideas to have to tweak that unit? Instead they have been a major disappointment, especially last season. As fans we should EXPECT to see major improvements in this unit, regardless of whether Mac decides to take another linebacker in this draft? Right now they are almost as disappointing as the secondary.

There's really nowhere for these units to go but UP. But I still doubt the CS can get the best out of the players? Do any of the defensive coaches, including Toilet, inspire confidence in you?

Again until there is stability and consistency from the defensive line can we really see what the linebackers can accomplish...

Darron Lee is a Inside "Spur" LB basically a safety playing in the box, his role is suppose to be coverage sideline to sideline while partially being one part of the pass rush (blitz).... David Harris still a thumper but is losing quickness quickly each year, but do expect this to be his final season with the team no matter how he feels about it (contract year)... As for the other MIA linebackers, injuries have plagued a few of the invested picks... Mauldin showed some oomph, we claimed Lemonier and in his brief stint showed some promise....

Actually can't wait to see what the position coaches like Kevin Greene, Dennard Wilson will bring... Wilson coming from the Rams who statistically were among the best last season... Juston Burris, Marcus Williams are the two I want to see take the next step... Would be okay seeing Buster Skrine, exit... As for the newcomer Claiborne he just has to prove not only stay healthy but he continue his career year last year here with us this upcoming season... Having these two in the fold will allow our DC Rodgers to focus on the front 3 and get the most out of them...

As for the safety situation, it isn't a mess as most say it is... Rontez Miles and Calvin Pryor could be a solid tandem as long as the corners do their jobs... Could see Marcus Williams line up more at safety as well..

 

[lounap23]

Leonard Williams doesn't play nose. Marcus WIlliams is a natural outside CB

 

[gmf1369]

Leonard Williams doesn't play nose. Marcus WIlliams is a natural outside CB

Leonard Williams is an interior lineman and played nose tackle last season...

Marcus Williams doesn't have the long speed to cover deep, and last year he played a lot of safety...

 

[lounap23]

Leonard Williams is an interior lineman and played nose tackle last season...

Marcus Williams doesn't have the long speed to cover deep, and last year he played a lot of safety...

Leonard Williams is an interior Lineman if we play a 4-3 he is not a Nose. He is a 3-4 DE. And he played 896 snaps last year 85% were at DE. M. Williams was a disaster at slot and Safety. Also he didn't play a lot of S. actually he played maybe 4-5 series at safety over 2 games... The idea of moving Skrines outside and Williams inside was a mistake....Williams may not have the long speed but his play is suited for Outside CB and Bowles has already said they will move him back to the outside where he is much more successful.. His best games have come on the outside.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

This defense has enough talent to play much better than they did last season. The coaching was subpar. There were so many times the defense was so far away from the play being made that it had to be poor coaching and poor schemes. Also, this defense desperately needs a leader. In 1980 the Giants had some talented players on defense but were lacking a true leader. LT was drafted and the defense had it's identify. He made everyone better. Mac needs to get his LT with the #6 pick. Jamal Adams is the guy.

 

[Elias]

This defense has enough talent to play much better than they did last season. The coaching was subpar. There were so many times the defense was so far away from the play being made that it had to be poor coaching and poor schemes. Also, this defense desperately needs a leader. In 1980 the Giants had some talented players on defense but were lacking a true leader. LT was drafted and the defense had it's identify. He made everyone better. Mac needs to get his LT with the #6 pick. Jamal Adams is the guy.

Great post. We were horribly coached last season and I was hoping that Kacy Rogers gets fired but obviously, he is Bowles's boy and he didnt want to get rid of him.

 

[gmf1369]

Leonard Williams is an interior Lineman if we play a 4-3 he is not a Nose. He is a 3-4 DE. And he played 896 snaps last year 85% were at DE. M. Williams was a disaster at slot and Safety. Also he didn't play a lot of S. actually he played maybe 4-5 series at safety over 2 games... The idea of moving Skrines outside and Williams inside was a mistake....Williams may not have the long speed but his play is suited for Outside CB and Bowles has already said they will move him back to the outside where he is much more successful.. His best games have come on the outside.

never said moving Skrine outside and Williams inside I said if we need too we can play Williams at safety... Skrine needs to be the nickel nothing else or we need to cut him which is not going to happen at least this off season... TB is going to try to make Juston Burris the starter across from Claiborne doesn't mean they won't draft someone just means they are focusing on this position as a high pick (1st and 2nd round)...

 

[lounap23]

never said moving Skrine outside and Williams inside I said if we need too we can play Williams at safety... Skrine needs to be the nickel nothing else or we need to cut him which is not going to happen at least this off season... TB is going to try to make Juston Burris the starter across from Claiborne doesn't mean they won't draft someone just means they are focusing on this position as a high pick (1st and 2nd round)...

No my point was that's what we did last year and it was a bad idea. The defensive scheme was awful last year. Skrines is a slot guy, keep him there as stated. M Williams is an Outside ball hawking CB.. You are right he doesn't have the long speed but neither does Sherman. Scheme is very important with Williams on the outside and we played Press Single coverage with him and that's nothis strong suit and neither is safety. I liked what I saw from Burris.. I think he is gonna be solid opposite Claiborne. I like Claiborne when healthy but he is injury prone so we need to be prepared to adjust for that and Williams can be a good player when the schemes is right. Same with Roberts but I also agree with you we will take a CB early for insurance on the what if's of Burris maybe not working out or Claiborne getting injured...

So all in all I think you and I are on the same page moving forward LOL

 

[gmf1369]

Leonard Williams is an interior Lineman if we play a 4-3 he is not a Nose. He is a 3-4 DE. And he played 896 snaps last year 85% were at

then you weren't paying attention because there were lineups with Mo at LE, Sheldon at RE and Leo at NT...

no Leo is not a true nose tackle in this league BUT in TB's defense he is the perfect specimen to make that transition...

if we don't trade Sheldon the lineup should and could be

LE Mo backup Mike Pennel or Claude Pelon
RE Sheldon backup Lawrence Thomas and/or Anthony Johnson
NT Leo backup Deon Simon

depending on how many we want to keep at this position, the more versatile the better...

in TB's system Mo being a run stopper first and foremost makes the better option at NT... but because Leo was a 4-3 NT in college, his experience playing over Center Guard and over the Center allows TB to utilize him as a nose tackle in his 3-4... Looking at the player personnel on the team Steve McClendon, Deon Simon, Mo Wilkerson, Mike Pennel, and Leonard Williams are all built the same but only Williams over those are true pass rushers...

if we do trade Sheldon Richardson then we could run with this defense

LE Mo, and Pennel or Pelon
NT McClendon or Leonard Williams with backup being Simon (Simon could take the starting job)
RE Lawrence Thomas or Leonard Williams with Anthony Johnson the backup (opening the door for Kenny Anunike or Julian Obioha to steal the backup job...

Remember what they said the analyst for Pro Bowl voting Leonard Williams should of been tagged as DT not DE because he played a lot inside then out... And yes we did play some 4-3 last year but we played more 3-4 where he did stay inside almost all year long...

 

[gmf1369]

No my point was that's what we did last year and it was a bad idea. The defensive scheme was awful last year. Skrines is a slot guy, keep him there as stated. M Williams is an Outside ball hawking CB.. You are right he doesn't have the long speed but neither does Sherman. Scheme is very important with Williams on the outside and we played Press Single coverage with him and that's nothis strong suit and neither is safety. I liked what I saw from Burris.. I think he is gonna be solid opposite Claiborne. I like Claiborne when healthy but he is injury prone so we need to be prepared to adjust for that and Williams can be a good player when the schemes is right. Same with Roberts but I also agree with you we will take a CB early for insurance on the what if's of Burris maybe not working out or Claiborne getting injured...

So all in all I think you and I are on the same page moving forward LOL

the defensive scheme last year ended up being to compensate the secondary, meaning they tried to roll coverage over the top and everyone looked confused doing it... Injuries had a big factor into the execution of the defensive scheme and trying to get more out of the backups who played more snaps then they are built for was punishing to the overall of this defense... We have talent but some weren't prepared for that type of workload...

Darryl Roberts has the speed, this off season it is imperative he works on technique and he could contend for vying playing time especially if Claiborne does what he is best gets injured...

Marcus Williams he is best in off man coverage, his bump n run press coverage needs work... If he can gain more twitchyness in his change of direction he can improve his press...

Buster Skrine, would actually like to see him move to free safety with his eyes already majority of the time peaking in at the quarterback he won't have to explain why he is doing it from this position... He is a capable tackler (willing) and he has ball skills, why not?

 

[lounap23]

then you weren't paying attention because there were lineups with Mo at LE, Sheldon at RE and Leo at NT...

no Leo is not a true nose tackle in this league BUT in TB's defense he is the perfect specimen to make that transition...

if we don't trade Sheldon the lineup should and could be

LE Mo backup Mike Pennel or Claude Pelon
RE Sheldon backup Lawrence Thomas and/or Anthony Johnson
NT Leo backup Deon Simon

depending on how many we want to keep at this position, the more versatile the better...

in TB's system Mo being a run stopper first and foremost makes the better option at NT... but because Leo was a 4-3 NT in college, his experience playing over Center Guard and over the Center allows TB to utilize him as a nose tackle in his 3-4... Looking at the player personnel on the team Steve McClendon, Deon Simon, Mo Wilkerson, Mike Pennel, and Leonard Williams are all built the same but only Williams over those are true pass rushers...

if we do trade Sheldon Richardson then we could run with this defense

LE Mo, and Pennel or Pelon
NT McClendon or Leonard Williams with backup being Simon (Simon could take the starting job)
RE Lawrence Thomas or Leonard Williams with Anthony Johnson the backup (opening the door for Kenny Anunike or Julian Obioha to steal the backup job...

Remember what they said the analyst for Pro Bowl voting Leonard Williams should of been tagged as DT not DE because he played a lot inside then out... And yes we did play some 4-3 last year but we played more 3-4 where he did stay inside almost all year long...

I get your point and I agree with the principle and the insight. But the fact is Leo played either a bulk of his snaps at DE in the 3-4 or DT in 4-3... Very few snaps were at the nose in a 3-4... And McClendon and Simon are not the same as WIlk, Thomas (FYI I loved what we saw from this kid in the 3 games he played last year till the injury)Pennel, Williams and Richardson, they are true 3-4 NT's.. The rest of them are 3-4 DE's or 4-3 DT's

As small time football coach and you, from what I can tell from this board, a really knowledgeable football fan, playing DT and playing Nose are 2 completely different animals... There is no real NT in a 4-3. You can scheme a 4-3 for one of the DT to play a NT type technique but that would completely neutralize what Leo does best and same putting him as a NT in a 3-4.

Our defense needs to look like this

DE's - Wilk, Williams, Thomas, Pelon and Pennel
NT - Simon and McClendon

They key is getting the edge rusher... With the DL being Wilk - Simon - Williams and an elite edge rusher... You will see a huge improvement in the secondary..

Also trading Richardson is a must.. We can't play all these stupid schemes that don't fit our players...

 

[lounap23]

the defensive scheme last year ended up being to compensate the secondary, meaning they tried to roll coverage over the top and everyone looked confused doing it... Injuries had a big factor into the execution of the defensive scheme and trying to get more out of the backups who played more snaps then they are built for was punishing to the overall of this defense... We have talent but some weren't prepared for that type of workload...

Darryl Roberts has the speed, this off season it is imperative he works on technique and he could contend for vying playing time especially if Claiborne does what he is best gets injured...

Marcus Williams he is best in off man coverage, his bump n run press coverage needs work... If he can gain more twitchyness in his change of direction he can improve his press...

Buster Skrine, would actually like to see him move to free safety with his eyes already majority of the time peaking in at the quarterback he won't have to explain why he is doing it from this position... He is a capable tackler (willing) and he has ball skills, why not?

Yep totally agree with this 100%