Leonard Williams Coming for a visit with the Jets on Monday
- Thread starter Elias
- Start date
Yea - i agree.
+2
There are 2 safe picks in the draft this year, Leonard Williams who is a 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE stud, or Amari Cooper WR. If we drafted Williams, Big Mo would no longer have us by the nuts in re-negotiating. Williams is the best DL to come out since AJ Watt who was very good @ Wisconsin but not great like Williams @ USC.
This post is kind of silly, because there is no way he slides to 6 in any draft scenario, and if we trade up, it would be for Winston or Mariota.
Go Jets...Cyborg
This post is kind of silly, because there is no way he slides to 6 in any draft scenario, and if we trade up, it would be for Winston or Mariota.
Go Jets...Cyborg
Devil's advocate, but you wouldn't trade up for the next J. J. Watt?
I'm pretty certain Williams won't get past 4. Now way he lasts to 6.
I actually think he has a chance of lasting till 6
take 2 QBs and Fowler.....then anything can happen...
take 2 QBs and Fowler.....then anything can happen...
JJ Watt was a skinny walk on who was originally a TE, but kept working out and got bigger & better. He's much more dominate in the pro's than College.
Honestly to answer your question, NO I would not give up next years & this years # 1 for any player unless his last name was Luck.
Go Jets...Cyborg
He had 80 tackles last year and increased his tackle total every year. I think he will be more McCoy tha. such, but he will be a very good player. No way I draft him though. I trade the pick to a team that wants him and move back. We only have )6 picks in this draft. If live to move down and get an extra 2nd. I'd be happy with Ray, Dupree, or Perriman with 2 2nd Rdpicks still in front of us.
If I'm Mac I ask Todd Bowles if he's willing to switch to a base 4-Man Front for Leonard Williams, and if his heart would be 100% in it, if its not something he would do reluctantly or half-heartedly, but something he would be 100% enthused about if he can have a Super Unit on the D-line, but he has to be ALL IN, once we take him there's no going back?
If he says YES, I take Williams if he slides to 6, but if he's not ALL IN, I pass on Williams and try to trade down.
IOW's I give the HC the final say on this one, because the fit and success of the player is so scheme dependent.
If he says YES, I take Williams if he slides to 6, but if he's not ALL IN, I pass on Williams and try to trade down.
IOW's I give the HC the final say on this one, because the fit and success of the player is so scheme dependent.
I dont agree.
Wilkerson, Harrison, Richardson, and Coples...that's 3 DTs and 1 4-3 DE...Richardson at 298, Wilkerson at 315, and Harrison at 350 are far from 4-3 DEs...think John Abraham, Simeon Rice, Leonard Little, Dwight Freeney, and Hugh Douglas...we need a speed rushing DE and would be missing that key component.
Couple of things, Super.
First you don't need speed rushers to have a lethal pass rush in the 4-3. Its nice to have one, but its only essential in the 3-4, in the 3-4 you can never have a great pass rush without a pass rusher who explodes off the edge, but in the 4-3 thats not necessarily true, you can also have a great pass rush if you can out talent and over power the O-line.
Consider this, who was the speed rusher on the Steel Curtain?
They didn't have one. What they had was, a great inside rush from Mean Joe Greene and Ernie Holmes, and big, strong, athletic, powerful DE's outside with Dwight White and LC Greenwood.
The same was true of the Doomsday Defense. Great inside rush with Randy White, Jethro Pugh or John Dutton stuffing the run, and outside they had two athletic, over-powering DE's with Too Tall Jones and Harvey Martin.
The same was true of Buddy Ryan's Eagles. Great inside rush with Jerome Brown, Golic etc stuffing the run, and they would over-power you outside with Reggie White and Clyde Simmons, neither of which was a speed rusher.
I would argue the same was true of the Giants front four that mauled Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, pre JPP. Strahan was a power rusher, not a speed rusher, Tuck gave them a strong inside pass rush, Osi was like Dwight White or Clyde Simmons at the other end, a combination of speed and power, but not what we think of as a pure speed rusher.
My point is, you don't need a Lawrence Taylor, Charles Haley, Andre Tippett type edge rusher in the 4-3 to have a great pass rush. If you put four big, strong and athletic D-linemen on the field, all adept at rushing the QB, you can have a great pass rush without blinding speed off the edge.
That said, if we drafted Williams and switched to a 4-3, you could have the best inside pass rush in the league with Wilkerson and Sheldon, Coples playing the Simmons/Dwight White role at RDE, and Williams beating most of the plodding RT's like a drum at LDE. But this can only work if you switch to a base 4-3.
Snacks would be a run stuffing specialist on GL and SY, and the fifth man in the rotation.
At this point I think it's more of a philosophy issue than anything specific to Williams.
And personally I'm enjoying the debate/insight . . .
well i don't know if this thread is silly because he won't be there at 6 (i happen to agree that it's unlikely he is there at 6), but it seems the jets are interested enough in him to have him in for a workout.
Personally, I dont 100% disagree with you, but you make some really good points. You have a good example with Reggie White and Clyde Simmons...both both were smaller than Richardson and Wilkerson, who you're proposing opposite coples.
I would argue Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, and JPP were all speed rushers to play opposite Strahan's power.
Even look back to Parcells when he came here, didn't he draft the bigger, stronger Ellis for one side and the speed of Abraham for the other? Granted, it was for the 3-4, but I feel that's how defenses are built...like olines with a power side and a speed side.
Buddy and his bears and eagles defenses were bigger, stronger, and meaner...I guess we could go with that approach, but seeing what Bowles did with an aging Abraham...I think he wants a speed rusher to go with what we got...but i could be wrong.
I just dont see us building a 4-3 defense with 3 defensive tackles just to make it work...
Elias just posted a great article on the #Bowles thread with a question to Bowles about his defense. He said we will play some 4-3 but we can't play it too much because we have too many inside guys that can't play outside; as I also referenced, pretty sure he is talking about Big Mo, Richardson, and snacks...
Ah, good find guys, hopefully Williams is taken so its not an issue.