Dual Threat QBs

[maxmet]

It is settled that an NFL QB has to be capable of running an offense from the pocket. If he can also run, great. But with possible exception of rare guys who for a few seasons are dual threat QBs, the settled wisdom is that that is a bad idea. Defenses will adjust. The QB will get hurt. It wont work at this level

But, college has tons of rather talented dual threat QBs. Some of them have okay - - not great - ability to throw downfield with strength and accuracy.

What if an NFL team - especially a team that plays in a cold and windy environmnt - decided to buck the trend. What if one went out and got over a period of time four guys who are very good dual threat QBs

The QB has to be able to hit long passes now and then - when a receiver gets separation against man coverage. Needs to be accurate enough to hit short and mid range passes

Where gonne go run/pass option often. Read option. Bootlegs. Spread formations. Our QB will get hit - but we will have four of these guys on the roster because other NFL teams dont value this skillset.

Can a team win in the NFL running that sort of offense? I'm thinking that the ability to cover the QB position at lower cost - in picks or $$ - might let you have big talent elsewhere. And if you have 3 or 4 guys who can run the offense, maybe you dont take the standard NFL - we cant let our QB get hit, he might get hurt. AND with the rules changes, the NFL protects the QB - even the running QB - a lot....

Lamar Jackson and then find some lesser but capable dual threat guys?

 

[SackExchange]

I understand the thinking. Right now, there is a disconnect between the college and NFL game. College football is producing a lot of spread QBs, dual threats who run a lot of read option. The reality is, the NFL is producing better QBs for the CFL than it is for the NFL.

As a result, there is a dearth of NFL pro-style QBs being developed. Now, the logical step would be for NFL teams to adapt to what is being developed in college. The problem is that because of the personnel on the edge in the NFL, DEs and OLBs, that game is not sustainable at the pro level. You can't really run a college-type spread system in the NFL and have sustained success. The new norm is to get someone who is suited at being a pocket QB in a pro system, but also has the mobility to exploit defenses when they rush and make something out of nothing. Think Wentz, Mariota, Cam.

 

[Mainejet]

It is settled that an NFL QB has to be capable of running an offense from the pocket. If he can also run, great. But with possible exception of rare guys who for a few seasons are dual threat QBs, the settled wisdom is that that is a bad idea. Defenses will adjust. The QB will get hurt. It wont work at this level

But, college has tons of rather talented dual threat QBs. Some of them have okay - - not great - ability to throw downfield with strength and accuracy.

What if an NFL team - especially a team that plays in a cold and windy environmnt - decided to buck the trend. What if one went out and got over a period of time four guys who are very good dual threat QBs

The QB has to be able to hit long passes now and then - when a receiver gets separation against man coverage. Needs to be accurate enough to hit short and mid range passes

Where gonne go run/pass option often. Read option. Bootlegs. Spread formations. Our QB will get hit - but we will have four of these guys on the roster because other NFL teams dont value this skillset.

Can a team win in the NFL running that sort of offense? I'm thinking that the ability to cover the QB position at lower cost - in picks or $$ - might let you have big talent elsewhere. And if you have 3 or 4 guys who can run the offense, maybe you dont take the standard NFL - we cant let our QB get hit, he might get hurt. AND with the rules changes, the NFL protects the QB - even the running QB - a lot....

Lamar Jackson and then find some lesser but capable dual threat guys?

it will work just fine so long as your dual threat QB learns to be a pocket passer first and foremost. This is why I always said Vick is overrated? He was never a good pocket passer. He resorted to running the ball way too soon.

Now take Steve McNair on the other hand or say Steve Young? Both were very talented and dangerous running the ball, but was always second to their ability to stay in the pocket and complete all of the passes necessary for a pro QB to complete. That's what made them superior QB's to Vick.

 

[maxmet]

that is the standard NFL mantra, exactly - must learn to be primarily a pocket passer

But, could some team be the Amazon of the NFL? change the model?

 

[Mainejet]

that is the standard NFL mantra, exactly - must learn to be primarily a pocket passer

But, could some team be the Amazon of the NFL? change the model?

I doubt it? As far as I'm concerned, McNair and Young are the two best dual threat QB's I've ever seen. They weren't able to change the game.

Besides, you become too predictable that way. The defense loads the box and challenges you to do what you've shown you can't.

 

[jets82]

it will work just fine so long as your dual threat QB learns to be a pocket passer first and foremost. This is why I always said Vick is overrated? He was never a good pocket passer. He resorted to running the ball way too soon.

Now take Steve McNair on the other hand or say Steve Young? Both were very talented and dangerous running the ball, but was always second to their ability to stay in the pocket and complete all of the passes necessary for a pro QB to complete. That's what made them superior QB's to Vick.

Gotta agree with this post here. McNair and Young were both special. Rear breeds and there are a few QBs that seem to follow that mode these days. Wilson and Rodgers come to mind. Two running QBs that are excellent in the pocket. Rodgers being the best or most talented of the four IMO. They all are excellent in the pocket. As good or as close as you can get to a Brady, Manning or Breez but can also kill you on the run. Boy would it be nice for the Jets to find a QB like that in this draft. In any round or undrafted, just find him please.

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

The fucking Jets can't even find a single threat QB and now we are looking for a dual threat. SMH @ Jet fans.

 

[jets82]

The fucking Jets can't even find a single threat QB and now we are looking for a dual threat. SMH @ Jet fans.

Good, no great point!

 

[SackExchange]

that is the standard NFL mantra, exactly - must learn to be primarily a pocket passer

But, could some team be the Amazon of the NFL? change the model?

Not with the speed on the edge at the NFL level.

 

[Gramoah]

It is settled that an NFL QB has to be capable of running an offense from the pocket. If he can also run, great. But with possible exception of rare guys who for a few seasons are dual threat QBs, the settled wisdom is that that is a bad idea. Defenses will adjust. The QB will get hurt. It wont work at this level

But, college has tons of rather talented dual threat QBs. Some of them have okay - - not great - ability to throw downfield with strength and accuracy.

What if an NFL team - especially a team that plays in a cold and windy environmnt - decided to buck the trend. What if one went out and got over a period of time four guys who are very good dual threat QBs

The QB has to be able to hit long passes now and then - when a receiver gets separation against man coverage. Needs to be accurate enough to hit short and mid range passes

Where gonne go run/pass option often. Read option. Bootlegs. Spread formations. Our QB will get hit - but we will have four of these guys on the roster because other NFL teams dont value this skillset.

Can a team win in the NFL running that sort of offense? I'm thinking that the ability to cover the QB position at lower cost - in picks or $$ - might let you have big talent elsewhere. And if you have 3 or 4 guys who can run the offense, maybe you dont take the standard NFL - we cant let our QB get hit, he might get hurt. AND with the rules changes, the NFL protects the QB - even the running QB - a lot....

Lamar Jackson and then find some lesser but capable dual threat guys?

I wouldn't want Jackson at all. Even if you used him, like you seem to be suggesting, a running back, which by the way is how I think of him anyway, sooner or later he is going to have to make some tough throws and Jackson is not a very good passing QB.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

I understand the thinking. Right now, there is a disconnect between the college and NFL game. College football is producing a lot of spread QBs, dual threats who run a lot of read option. The reality is, the NFL is producing better QBs for the CFL than it is for the NFL.

As a result, there is a dearth of NFL pro-style QBs being developed. Now, the logical step would be for NFL teams to adapt to what is being developed in college. The problem is that because of the personnel on the edge in the NFL, DEs and OLBs, that game is not sustainable at the pro level. You can't really run a college-type spread system in the NFL and have sustained success. The new norm is to get someone who is suited at being a pocket QB in a pro system, but also has the mobility to exploit defenses when they rush and make something out of nothing. Think Wentz, Mariota, Cam.

Funny you mentioned Wentz, I was going to post how the Eagles have been playing a college style offense this year much like the Chiefs. The NFL really has been changing to play more like the college game. Think about the fullback position. Most teams don't even carry one on the roster. Teams are running more options then in the past. It's going to come down to adapting your system to fit the players available to have success.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

I wouldn't want Jackson at all. Even if you used him, like you seem to be suggesting, a running back, which by the way is how I think of him anyway, sooner or later he is going to have to make some tough throws and Jackson is not a very good passing QB.

Jackson has greatly improved this season as a Passer, has great arm strength and can make some very impressive throws. His o line is terrible , often forcing him to throw on the run. I think he will impress with his arm during the combine and move up most draft boards.
I believe his completion pct was over 60% threw for close to 3500 yards , 25 TDs to 6 picks
I think the 17 rushing TDs are actually detracting from the improvement he made in the pocket. He won't be asked to run nearly as often in the NFL, but if Defenses fail to account for him, he will have long gains.

 

[Gramoah]

I agree, that he has improved some, and in 2016 he beat out some thought to be impressive players, including Mayfield for the Heisman Trophy. I just think he isn't as inclined to stay in the pocket and send it down field as he is to tuck it and run. Sometimes that's a good thing but in a passing league it usually isn't because too many teams are getting good at stopping the run. I don't think he will be available anyway because the Giants have been mentioned as an interested team. At any rate we should be in a position to get one of the top 5 QBs in the draft so let's hope the Jets are smart enough to get one of them.

 

[SackExchange]

Funny you mentioned Wentz, I was going to post how the Eagles have been playing a college style offense this year much like the Chiefs. The NFL really has been changing to play more like the college game. Think about the fullback position. Most teams don't even carry one on the roster. Teams are running more options then in the past. It's going to come down to adapting your system to fit the players available to have success.

I happen to love the I. When I played OL in college, we ran it, and did a lot of triple option out of it. I am a big fan of the option game, and of using a FB in the pro game.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

I happen to love the I. When I played OL in college, we ran it, and did a lot of triple option out of it. I am a big fan of the option game, and of using a FB in the pro game.

Unfortunately, the FB is a dying position. Its become a pass happy league and team will use a TE as an H back more often. Even the teams who carry FBs are using them less often.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

I agree, that he has improved some, and in 2016 he beat out some thought to be impressive players, including Mayfield for the Heisman Trophy. I just think he isn't as inclined to stay in the pocket and send it down field as he is to tuck it and run. Sometimes that's a good thing but in a passing league it usually isn't because too many teams are getting good at stopping the run. I don't think he will be available anyway because the Giants have been mentioned as an interested team. At any rate we should be in a position to get one of the top 5 QBs in the draft so let's hope the Jets are smart enough to get one of them.

I think his running is more by design then his choice. That o line leaves little choice most plays. I have posted before, I think the Browns are very interested in him. Hue Jackson loves him . Still a lot of time before the draft. It will be interesting to see who rises and falls between now and April.
The QB position has to be addressed, either through free agency or the draft. Can't go with McCown , hack and another project next year.

 

[SackExchange]

Unfortunately, the FB is a dying position. Its become a pass happy league and team will use a TE as an H back more often. Even the teams who carry FBs are using them less often.

What's odd is that fullbacks have fallen out of fashion, yet tight ends are in right now. It is a similar skill set on some levels.

 

[Mainejet]

Unfortunately, the FB is a dying position. Its become a pass happy league and team will use a TE as an H back more often. Even the teams who carry FBs are using them less often.

There isn't a huge emphasis on getting a FB right now, but it will never completely die. They might have RB's that serve as both a RB and FB? They might have an H back? However, I don't believe the FB job will ever completely go away even if it outwardly appears that teams do not have a FB position on their roster.........

 

[Mainejet]

What's odd is that fullbacks have fallen out of fashion, yet tight ends are in right now. It is a similar skill set on some levels.

And I think that will turn around in time? Remember the run and shoot offenses? They exploded all over the league because the NFL is such a copycat league. I remember during that time that like 6 teams didn't even carry TE's on their roster? But it became a passing fad. My belief is what is going on right now is another passing fad?

 

[Gramoah]

I think his running is more by design then his choice. That o line leaves little choice most plays. I have posted before, I think the Browns are very interested in him. Hue Jackson loves him . Still a lot of time before the draft. It will be interesting to see who rises and falls between now and April.
The QB position has to be addressed, either through free agency or the draft. Can't go with McCown , hack and another project next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns snatched him up before the Giants make their pick because they have come right out and said they don't want Rosen who is ranked #1. On another note I watched Lock play last night. He made some good passes, most of which were catchable but dropped. It was hard to evaluate him because the "O" line absolutely sucked. I'll be watching college games again today.