Interesting report on Hackenberg

[Namath12]

I know that many of you will dismiss this out of hand, but here is something I heard yesterday on the Anita Marks show on ESPN radio. For those of you who don't know of her, she played Quarterback for several years in a women's professional football league, and she has done talk shows in Miami and Baltimore before coming to NY. She has contacts and sources around the league and is good friends with Hue Jackson, for example. To further illustrate her credentials, she is a fantasy football expert, having joined something like 13 leagues last year. She's also a self-described degenerate gambler and golf junky. In other words, she's not just another pretty face.

On yesterday's show, she described a conversation she had at the combine (she attends every year) with a man named Jeff Christensen, a former NFL QB, who runs an academy called Throw It Deep. Anita asked him who he was working with now and he replied...Christian Hackenberg. He then proceeded to show Anita some tape and she was astounded. She said that she could not believe the difference in Hack's delivery and his accuracy. Before you skip the rest of this post, saying that anyone can look good when not throwing against a live pass rush, Anita brought up that point herself. Nevertheless, this former women's professional QB, felt that it was possible that the Hack who was considered the best QB prospect in the nation after his freshman year might have re-discovered the light that shined on him then. If I had to describe her reaction in one word, it would be somewhere between "intrigued" and"excited." By the way, she did ask the QB guru why the Jets had not been able to bring this out of him.

One last point about Anita's credibility. Last year at this time she was raving about the Eagles and Carson Wentz before anyone else was. She stated then that the team had responded to him as well as she had ever heard about a QB. I don't recall if she mentioned who her source was, but the point is that she has credible sources.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Hack looked pretty impressive during his Pro Day too. It's the mental aspect of the game that Hack can't overcome.

 

[Gramoah]

Hack looked pretty impressive during his Pro Day too. It's the mental aspect of the game that Hack can't overcome.

Right. It wasn't his throwing ability that was holding him back as much as it was his ability to read defenses, remember the plays, and make good, quick decisions. Bowles even alluded to that once or twice when asked about his progress.

 

[jetgreen13]

I know that many of you will dismiss this out of hand, but here is something I heard yesterday on the Anita Marks show on ESPN radio. For those of you who don't know of her, she played Quarterback for several years in a women's professional football league, and she has done talk shows in Miami and Baltimore before coming to NY. She has contacts and sources around the league and is good friends with Hue Jackson, for example. To further illustrate her credentials, she is a fantasy football expert, having joined something like 13 leagues last year. She's also a self-described degenerate gambler and golf junky. In other words, she's not just another pretty face.

On yesterday's show, she described a conversation she had at the combine (she attends every year) with a man named Jeff Christensen, a former NFL QB, who runs an academy called Throw It Deep. Anita asked him who he was working with now and he replied...Christian Hackenberg. He then proceeded to show Anita some tape and she was astounded. She said that she could not believe the difference in Hack's delivery and his accuracy. Before you skip the rest of this post, saying that anyone can look good when not throwing against a live pass rush, Anita brought up that point herself. Nevertheless, this former women's professional QB, felt that it was possible that the Hack who was considered the best QB prospect in the nation after his freshman year might have re-discovered the light that shined on him then. If I had to describe her reaction in one word, it would be somewhere between "intrigued" and"excited." By the way, she did ask the QB guru why the Jets had not been able to bring this out of him.[/B

One last point about Anita's credibility. Last year at this time she was raving about the Eagles and Carson Wentz before anyone else was. She stated then that the team had responded to him as well as she had ever heard about a QB. I don't recall if she mentioned who her source was, but the point is that she has credible sources.

that's quite the question to leave blowing in the wind..

after cousins let's the jets raise his market value they will pick a QB at 6, or trade up or maybe down to get one..

a new regime can't go into year 4 still without the present day/future starting QB not on the roster..

doesn't look like they think hackenberg is that guy.. at all..

 

[Namath12]

I can't disagree with what you gentlemen have posted. I felt that Hack just didn't know what he was looking at when he looked at defenses. But Anita also remarked that he did seem much more confident. Maybe more confidence = less of a feeling of panic. I know that it's a long shot. I do hope that Bowles keeps him on the team this year just to give him one more look. I go way back and remember that Johnny Unitas was cut from his first team. I understand that this is grasping at straws.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Right. It wasn't his throwing ability that was holding him back as much as it was his ability to read defenses, remember the plays, and make good, quick decisions. Bowles even alluded to that once or twice when asked about his progress.

That's my fear with Allen in this year's draft.
Im seeing alot of love for him post combine. His arm was never in question. But put him in pads with a live Defense and do you get the QB from Wisconsin or the kid who shined in underwear.
Does he revert to the bad tendencies under pressure?

 

[Gramoah]

That's my fear with Allen in this year's draft.
Im seeing alot of love for him post combine. His arm was never in question. But put him in pads with a live Defense and do you get the QB from Wisconsin or the kid who shined in underwear.
Does he revert to the bad tendencies under pressure?

To be honest Tony that's kinda my fear with all of these top draft QB's. They all have downsides that will have to be dealt with so we won't know what we have until we work them out in a real NFL scenario which is to late to find out that you picked wrong. That's why I'm so set on bringing in a vet to start this year. Hopefully the QB we draft, and we do still need to even if in round 2, will learn from the vet and actually become our guy. Geno had good throwing ability but by the time he figured out what the defense was going to do to him it was already done and that in a nutshell is what's wrong with Hack. I'm sure of it. It''s just a gamble and we need someone to carry the team until we find or develop that guy. We can afford to, and need to, put lots of talent around whoever that is.

 

[McJet]

Why not Hackenberg?? why can't he "get it"? All we hear about evaluators is, this kid's going to need a few years playing behind a vet till he's ready.
Watching the combine on saturday, that's what Mayock was saying about all the top draftable QB's.
Darold needs to sit, Allen needs to sit, Mayfield needs to sit, Jackson needs to sit, hell, he even said the most pro ready QB Rosen should sit.
Now, we all know how bad Hackenberg has looked the past two training camps, although he progressed from year 1 to year 2. Still couldn't see the field.
At least he still out there working hard, trying to get better.

In 5 seasons in the league this QB played in 26 games, had a completion % of 58.5, threw for 5,224 yds, 200 per game 24 TD's/ 20 int's rating average 78.6
This past season this same QB played in 15 games, had a completion % of 67.6 threw for 3,547yds, 234 per game 22 TD's, 7 int's QB rating of 98.3
That QB is Case Keenum. Why not Hackenberg?

 

[LIJETFAN]

If he figured it out, he's more physically talented than anyone in this draft class except perhaps Josh Allen. But the kid is a prototype NFL QB. He's also a high character kid. I'm actually rooting for him. The challenge is, can the Jets risk passing on a QB or signing a FA QB and take a chance that Hackenberg has figured it out. That's a tough one...I don't think they would do that. But if he has figured it out, it will show up in training camp.

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Why not Hackenberg?? why can't he "get it"? All we hear about evaluators is, this kid's going to need a few years playing behind a vet till he's ready.
Watching the combine on saturday, that's what Mayock was saying about all the top draftable QB's.
Darold needs to sit, Allen needs to sit, Mayfield needs to sit, Jackson needs to sit, hell, he even said the most pro ready QB Rosen should sit.
Now, we all know how bad Hackenberg has looked the past two training camps, although he progressed from year 1 to year 2. Still couldn't see the field.
At least he still out there working hard, trying to get better.

In 5 seasons in the league this QB played in 26 games, had a completion % of 58.5, threw for 5,224 yds, 200 per game 24 TD's/ 20 int's rating average 78.6
This past season this same QB played in 15 games, had a completion % of 67.6 threw for 3,547yds, 234 per game 22 TD's, 7 int's QB rating of 98.3
That QB is Case Keenum. Why not Hackenberg?

Keenum will never put up those numbers again.

 

[Elias]

I hope hackenberg can turn it around but I have little hope that he gets “it” when he faces game day competition. Did the guru answer why the Jets can’t get anything out of hack when Anita marks asked him?

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Why not Hackenberg?? why can't he "get it"? All we hear about evaluators is, this kid's going to need a few years playing behind a vet till he's ready.
Watching the combine on saturday, that's what Mayock was saying about all the top draftable QB's.
Darold needs to sit, Allen needs to sit, Mayfield needs to sit, Jackson needs to sit, hell, he even said the most pro ready QB Rosen should sit.
Now, we all know how bad Hackenberg has looked the past two training camps, although he progressed from year 1 to year 2. Still couldn't see the field.
At least he still out there working hard, trying to get better.

In 5 seasons in the league this QB played in 26 games, had a completion % of 58.5, threw for 5,224 yds, 200 per game 24 TD's/ 20 int's rating average 78.6
This past season this same QB played in 15 games, had a completion % of 67.6 threw for 3,547yds, 234 per game 22 TD's, 7 int's QB rating of 98.3
That QB is Case Keenum. Why not Hackenberg?

Keenum was a much better QB coming out of College than Hack. Hack had 48 TDs total in 3 seasons, Keenum had 48 his senior year to just 5 picks vs 31 for Hack.
Keenum's NCAA records :

• Most career pass completions: 1,546
• Most career passing yards: 19,217
• Most career passing touchdowns: 155
• Most career games with 300+ passing yards: 39
• Most games with 300+ passing yards in a single season: 14
• Most seasons passing for 5,000+ yards: 3
• Most seasons passing for 4,000+ yards: 3 (tied with four others)
• Most career total yards 20,114
• Most career touchdowns responsible for: 178

Hacks NCAA records:
None
Keenum - undrafted due to height. (6ft)
Hack - 2nd round pick (due to "prototypical build)
Keenum changed teams 5 times before getting to start due to multiple injuries
???( Bridgewater and Bradford)
Keenum got to start as a rookie, first game he had a 110.6 passer rating.
Not a great comparison.
But Hack is still young and maybe the light will come on for him. His draft position and pay as a result mean the clock is ticking for him though , and this off season will likely determine his future. If the Jets actually make a push for Cousins and sign him, Hack will not see the field barring injury to Cousins. If we go draft and Jag, Hack will get an opportunity to compete.
He has always been a hard worker and class act. I would love to see him have success, especially with the Jets.

 

[Namath12]

I hope hackenberg can turn it around but I have little hope that he gets “it” when he faces game day competition. Did the guru answer why the Jets can’t get anything out of hack when Anita marks asked him?

Yes, but my wife had the nerve to be talking to me, LOL, during that part of the conversation. I believe that the guru mentioned time and rep constraints for everyone but the first team QB and contractual restraints. I know that Pat Shurmer has said that he's seen Davis Webb in the building, but is not allowed to talk to him about football now due to NFL rules. However, to me this is an indictment of the Jets coaching staff. We can blame the lack of a breakthrough on the previous OC, but the new one, Bates, was the QB coach, so I have my doubts that anything will change. I wish that we had gotten the OC from the Eagles, John DeFillipi. I believe that he went to the Vikings. Coaching really does make a difference. Look at what McVay did for Jared Goff last year. The guru might also feel that poor coaching is to blame, but I don't think that he would say that to Anita.

 

[NewMFS62]

I hope hackenberg can turn it around but I have little hope that he gets “it” when he faces game day competition. Did the guru answer why the Jets can’t get anything out of hack when Anita marks asked him?

That is THE question we should be asking. Can he recapture that form once in the clutches of the Jets coaches? I don't know. How many times has Tiger Woods felt he "got it back" under a new tutor, then fail in a real tourney over the past three years?

I get itchy even contemplating the thought of him at QB.

Later

 

[cheaterhater]

So what is the common denominator in all of what you guys say? whoever the qb is, he needs time to throw. I have a solution for this, Get a good oline coach and build a good line. If we do this, then whoever the QB is, he will have a much better shot

here's something I wonder. How come Fitzpatrick came to our Jets and had his best season ever behind a not good oline? How come McCown, just did the same thing? I wonder what these guys could have done behind, say the cheatahs offensive line? I wonder if they would do well behind a good Jet offensive line? And before you guys tell me that they both stink, I'll say this. If these guys think and they still managed to each have a pretty good season on our team, imagine what a qb that you don't think stinks, could do on our team behind a great oline.

We had nothing on this team and Fitzpatrick took us within a game of the playoffs. This years, if we had won a couple of the close games that we lost, we would have been in the playoff hunt with less then nothing on this team. Give an average QB a line to stand behind and they will become an above average qb. Fitzpatrick and McCown just did it, albeit for 1 season each, behind a crap oline.

Hackenberg and Petty, in their small amount of playing time, were chased around the field like a fox in a hen house. That is no way to develop anyone. Again. the first time brady was hit in this past superbowl, he fumbled and btw, that is what cost him the game. that and the fact that his wife pointed out years ago, he can't throw the ball and catch it too

 

[NewMFS62]

So what is the common denominator in all of what you guys say? whoever the qb is, he needs time to throw. I have a solution for this, Get a good oline coach and build a good line. If we do this, then whoever the QB is, he will have a much better shot

You're preaching to the choir around here by saying the O Line should be a priority. Many of us have been posting about it for years.
Later

 

[TonyFtLaud]

So what is the common denominator in all of what you guys say? whoever the qb is, he needs time to throw. I have a solution for this, Get a good oline coach and build a good line. If we do this, then whoever the QB is, he will have a much better shot

here's something I wonder. How come Fitzpatrick came to our Jets and had his best season ever behind a not good oline? How come McCown, just did the same thing? I wonder what these guys could have done behind, say the cheatahs offensive line? I wonder if they would do well behind a good Jet offensive line? And before you guys tell me that they both stink, I'll say this. If these guys think and they still managed to each have a pretty good season on our team, imagine what a qb that you don't think stinks, could do on our team behind a great oline.

We had nothing on this team and Fitzpatrick took us within a game of the playoffs. This years, if we had won a couple of the close games that we lost, we would have been in the playoff hunt with less then nothing on this team. Give an average QB a line to stand behind and they will become an above average qb. Fitzpatrick and McCown just did it, albeit for 1 season each, behind a crap oline.

Hackenberg and Petty, in their small amount of playing time, were chased around the field like a fox in a hen house. That is no way to develop anyone. Again. the first time brady was hit in this past superbowl, he fumbled and btw, that is what cost him the game. that and the fact that his wife pointed out years ago, he can't throw the ball and catch it too

The Jets O line was ranked second in the league in 2015 when Fitz had his career year. They had a great ground game and one of the top recieving Corps in Marshall, Decker and Enunwa. The Pats O line ranked 19th in 2015.
Fitz did not have as great a season as you're remembering. The key stat is 31 dropped interceptions !!! It all caught up to him vs Buffalo in week 17. Fitz kept us from the playoffs to be honest.
McCown played well but was far from great. He had much less to work with than Fitz. The O line and D line both need to be addressed. Sadly all the draft resources that have gone to the D have not paid off.
Below are the o line rankings for 2015 from NFL.com note Fitz sacked 22 times hit 71 Brady sacked 38 times hit 97 times (16 more sacks 26 more hits)
Of course none of this has much to do with Hack looking good in shorts and a t-shirt. He looked just as good at his pro day and last off season when he worked with Palmer.
His issue is Mental, same as Petty. Put the pads on and add a live Defense and they revert to bad habits, poor decisions. The mental aspect can't be coached. Either it clicks and the game slows down for a QB or it doesn't. Guys like Fitz and McCown have the mental aspect but always lacked the physical tools, Hack,Petty and Geno all had the physcial tools but lack the mental aspect of the game.

		Rush Total	Rush Left	Rush Center	Rush Right
Team	Exp	Att	Yds	Avg	TDs	1st	Neg	+10Y	Pwr	1st	Neg	+10Y	Pwr	1st	Neg	+10Y	Pwr	Sacks	QB Hits
STL	106	429	1,956	4.6	16	32	17	22	14	18	10	10	86	42	31	24	73	18	95
NYJ	464	448	1,868	4.2	11	27	20	15	70	39	15	21	47	32	16	20	67	22	71
BAL	318	383	1,478	3.9	8	39	19	14	58	20	6	8	45	30	16	16	55	24	81
ARI	349	452	1,917	4.2	16	30	15	19	57	32	20	9	54	30	12	22	33	27	103
NYG	178	403	1,609	4.0	5	31	17	14	33	21	8	15	55	24	13	10	63	27	74
TB	340	455	2,162	4.8	12	39	17	22	60	20	13	9	75	40	23	19	83	27	109
WAS	142	429	1,566	3.7	9	39	27	15	69	11	10	3	67	30	16	14	60	27	81
ATL	314	420	1,606	3.8	13	39	23	19	50	12	5	5	86	44	21	24	64	32	89
CIN	371	467	1,805	3.9	18	35	19	23	50	25	5	8	75	39	12	15	78	32	58
NO	358	397	1,491	3.8	16	43	18	17	87	15	4	6	100	40	18	20	53	32	80
CAR	290	526	2,282	4.3	19	50	18	24	82	42	7	15	80	44	18	25	69	33	61
DAL	268	408	1,890	4.6	8	40	19	25	67	17	6	6	55	37	13	20	78	33	67
OAK	339	370	1,457	3.9	7	24	8	9	67	25	10	12	67	25	13	12	100	33	64
PIT	231	388	1,724	4.4	16	35	16	22	55	29	10	13	67	27	12	12	63	33	60
CHI	176	468	1,854	4.0	13	47	13	20	67	21	5	5	82	40	13	19	75	34	77
HOU	279	472	1,731	3.7	7	28	10	18	80	29	11	11	75	33	21	14	54	36	86
IND	192	396	1,438	3.6	6	23	16	11	50	27	14	12	62	27	7	14	62	37	118
PHI	293	442	1,743	3.9	15	35	24	16	89	38	7	12	94	37	17	19	73	37	97
NE	129	383	1,404	3.7	14	29	12	20	42	32	7	6	83	26	11	14	60	38	97
DEN	290	411	1,718	4.2	13	34	19	20	62	19	8	8	71	32	14	18	50	39	97
SD	210	393	1,358	3.5	4	25	11	12	100	42	15	13	71	12	14	3	50	40	107
BUF	312	509	2,432	4.8	19	48	24	34	67	33	12	16	63	41	21	20	89	42	79
DET	149	354	1,335	3.8	7	27	17	15	73	18	7	7	86	26	15	14	50	44	103
MIA	231	344	1,496	4.3	11	22	14	16	63	15	6	7	83	35	14	18	42	45	107
MIN	217	474	2,211	4.7	18	27	18	18	71	38	12	19	80	48	27	27	75	45	96
KC	124	436	2,044	4.7	19	38	13	21	70	40	7	19	69	38	16	13	75	46	78
SEA	183	500	2,268	4.5	10	50	20	29	70	37	5	9	84	41	17	23	29	46	114
GB	328	436	1,850	4.2	8	45	22	22	50	23	4	8	100	32	18	23	62	47	104
JAC	241	354	1,473	4.2	5	25	9	17	33	20	9	14	36	22	11	13	50	51	89
CLE	393	380	1,529	4.0	5	25	17	13	38	16	6	6	75	40	23	21	86	53	123
SF	326	390	1,544	4.0	7	41	16	23	88	21	12	11	45	21	18	8	86	53	94
TEN	219	371	1,485	4.0	10	30	19	15	44	16	7	5	45	20	20	13	14	54	105

 

[Namath12]

Tony, it's impossible to argue with your point about the necessity for the game to slow down. I'm just not sure if pocket presence can be taught or not. I think that some QBs, such as Johnny Unitas and Montana just had it right from the get-go. Most other good, or even great, QBs gradually acquire that poise over time. What I am pretty sure of is that this can't happen just from practice. At some point, you have to throw the QB into the fire in real games, not exhibition games, to at least see if the game slows down after several weeks. That is why I wish that Hack had been given a couple of starts at the end of last year.

I am very skeptical that Hack will thrive with the Jets. It is possible that he was wrecked by his last 2 seasons with Penn State, a la David Carr. I also agree with others who have stated that Bowles has made up his mind about Hack and will never change his opinion.

 

[butterscotch]

I say put a skirt on him & let him play in the girl league

 

[Gramoah]

Tony, it's impossible to argue with your point about the necessity for the game to slow down. I'm just not sure if pocket presence can be taught or not. I think that some QBs, such as Johnny Unitas and Montana just had it right from the get-go. Most other good, or even great, QBs gradually acquire that poise over time. What I am pretty sure of is that this can't happen just from practice. At some point, you have to throw the QB into the fire in real games, not exhibition games, to at least see if the game slows down after several weeks. That is why I wish that Hack had been given a couple of starts at the end of last year.

I am very skeptical that Hack will thrive with the Jets. It is possible that he was wrecked by his last 2 seasons with Penn State, a la David Carr. I also agree with others who have stated that Bowles has made up his mind about Hack and will never change his opinion.

Bowles remaining head coach of the Jets is dependent on him fixing the QB situation and developing a competitive team. I have issues with Bowles like many others so in light of that don't you think that if Hackenberg was the answer Bowles would play him ? I don't think Boles is what is holding Hack back. Some guys just can process the mental side of the game at the NFL level. Some just naturally have it to begin with and some develop it as they play, as you pointed out, and some don't ever get to that point. Apparently he does things in practice that lead them to believe that he falls into the last group. They may or may not be right. Another team might be able to get him to that point. Who knows really ? He's a standup guy. I wish he was the answer but it seems that they don't think he is.