Interesting report on Hackenberg

[cheaterhater]

The Jets O line was ranked second in the league in 2015 when Fitz had his career year. They had a great ground game and one of the top recieving Corps in Marshall, Decker and Enunwa. The Pats O line ranked 19th in 2015.
Fitz did not have as great a season as you're remembering. The key stat is 31 dropped interceptions !!! It all caught up to him vs Buffalo in week 17. Fitz kept us from the playoffs to be honest.
McCown played well but was far from great. He had much less to work with than Fitz. The O line and D line both need to be addressed. Sadly all the draft resources that have gone to the D have not paid off.
Below are the o line rankings for 2015 from NFL.com note Fitz sacked 22 times hit 71 Brady sacked 38 times hit 97 times (16 more sacks 26 more hits)
Of course none of this has much to do with Hack looking good in shorts and a t-shirt. He looked just as good at his pro day and last off season when he worked with Palmer.
His issue is Mental, same as Petty. Put the pads on and add a live Defense and they revert to bad habits, poor decisions. The mental aspect can't be coached. Either it clicks and the game slows down for a QB or it doesn't. Guys like Fitz and McCown have the mental aspect but always lacked the physical tools, Hack,Petty and Geno all had the physcial tools but lack the mental aspect of the game.

		Rush Total	Rush Left	Rush Center	Rush Right
Team	Exp	Att	Yds	Avg	TDs	1st	Neg	+10Y	Pwr	1st	Neg	+10Y	Pwr	1st	Neg	+10Y	Pwr	Sacks	QB Hits
STL	106	429	1,956	4.6	16	32	17	22	14	18	10	10	86	42	31	24	73	18	95
NYJ	464	448	1,868	4.2	11	27	20	15	70	39	15	21	47	32	16	20	67	22	71
BAL	318	383	1,478	3.9	8	39	19	14	58	20	6	8	45	30	16	16	55	24	81
ARI	349	452	1,917	4.2	16	30	15	19	57	32	20	9	54	30	12	22	33	27	103
NYG	178	403	1,609	4.0	5	31	17	14	33	21	8	15	55	24	13	10	63	27	74
TB	340	455	2,162	4.8	12	39	17	22	60	20	13	9	75	40	23	19	83	27	109
WAS	142	429	1,566	3.7	9	39	27	15	69	11	10	3	67	30	16	14	60	27	81
ATL	314	420	1,606	3.8	13	39	23	19	50	12	5	5	86	44	21	24	64	32	89
CIN	371	467	1,805	3.9	18	35	19	23	50	25	5	8	75	39	12	15	78	32	58
NO	358	397	1,491	3.8	16	43	18	17	87	15	4	6	100	40	18	20	53	32	80
CAR	290	526	2,282	4.3	19	50	18	24	82	42	7	15	80	44	18	25	69	33	61
DAL	268	408	1,890	4.6	8	40	19	25	67	17	6	6	55	37	13	20	78	33	67
OAK	339	370	1,457	3.9	7	24	8	9	67	25	10	12	67	25	13	12	100	33	64
PIT	231	388	1,724	4.4	16	35	16	22	55	29	10	13	67	27	12	12	63	33	60
CHI	176	468	1,854	4.0	13	47	13	20	67	21	5	5	82	40	13	19	75	34	77
HOU	279	472	1,731	3.7	7	28	10	18	80	29	11	11	75	33	21	14	54	36	86
IND	192	396	1,438	3.6	6	23	16	11	50	27	14	12	62	27	7	14	62	37	118
PHI	293	442	1,743	3.9	15	35	24	16	89	38	7	12	94	37	17	19	73	37	97
NE	129	383	1,404	3.7	14	29	12	20	42	32	7	6	83	26	11	14	60	38	97
DEN	290	411	1,718	4.2	13	34	19	20	62	19	8	8	71	32	14	18	50	39	97
SD	210	393	1,358	3.5	4	25	11	12	100	42	15	13	71	12	14	3	50	40	107
BUF	312	509	2,432	4.8	19	48	24	34	67	33	12	16	63	41	21	20	89	42	79
DET	149	354	1,335	3.8	7	27	17	15	73	18	7	7	86	26	15	14	50	44	103
MIA	231	344	1,496	4.3	11	22	14	16	63	15	6	7	83	35	14	18	42	45	107
MIN	217	474	2,211	4.7	18	27	18	18	71	38	12	19	80	48	27	27	75	45	96
KC	124	436	2,044	4.7	19	38	13	21	70	40	7	19	69	38	16	13	75	46	78
SEA	183	500	2,268	4.5	10	50	20	29	70	37	5	9	84	41	17	23	29	46	114
GB	328	436	1,850	4.2	8	45	22	22	50	23	4	8	100	32	18	23	62	47	104
JAC	241	354	1,473	4.2	5	25	9	17	33	20	9	14	36	22	11	13	50	51	89
CLE	393	380	1,529	4.0	5	25	17	13	38	16	6	6	75	40	23	21	86	53	123
SF	326	390	1,544	4.0	7	41	16	23	88	21	12	11	45	21	18	8	86	53	94
TEN	219	371	1,485	4.0	10	30	19	15	44	16	7	5	45	20	20	13	14	54	105

That's why Donte Scarnechia was brought out of retirement after the 2015 season I guess.

Unfortunately that table is all jumbled together but those kind of rankings don't always work out. Fitzpatrick is more mobil, brady drops back way more, the Jets offense is almost never on the field... I don't ever remember feeling like we had a #2 ranked oline and even with the cheatah line clearly on the downslide without Scarnechia, I never felt that ours was better then theirs. Did you? Not since Parcells.

I have never watched a Jet game and thought to myself, "Plenty of time wide open " like I do during a cheatah game. look at the superbowl as an example, you can pick any other game too as they are all the same. the first time brady was touched while he had the ball, was midway through the 4th qtr when he fumbled. Before that he had all day to stand in the pocket and wait for someone to get open. I don't need a stat table to show me what I can see with my eyes. I'd take their line over ours any day as I'm sure would you. but as you say none of this has anything to do with Hack. I'm just saying, anybody can have a good year, or a team can really play well together for a season. If they can do it one season, I don't see why they can't do it again. and most guys can't "have it click and the game slow down" without a good deal of time playing in games. You could have a guy who stinks in practice so he never plays that might play totally different in a game, but it also might take a number of games for it to click

I don't know anything about any of these guys personally, nor am I an expert on picking top notch QB's, but if they have made the NFL you have to believe that they have some ability to play the game. It's all about being in the right place at the right time. Since I know you like when I use brady as an example, I'll do it again. He is a product of the system he is in. If the Jets had drafted him, it's possible that he might never have seen the field, and if he did, he would have been knocked down onto it a lot more then he has been working for belichick. And as a Jet, if he bitched at the officials, they'd have thrown a flag at him

And you're right about the mental part of the game, especially at QB, a guy can have the tools but no brain and throw dumb int's, or a guy can be like Matt Ryan and play all world for an entire season and suddenly let the deamons into his head and forget how to play for half a superbowl.

but then again, any given Sunday right. I doubt anyone would have bet Foles would have outplayed brady any day no less in the Superbowl. How can we know what would happen if one of these kids got to play behind a good line on a well coached team, with a good running back and a group of receivers that never drop a pass(like you know who again) and a tight end named gronkowski, the game might just slow down and it might just click

 

[cheaterhater]

Tony, it's impossible to argue with your point about the necessity for the game to slow down. I'm just not sure if pocket presence can be taught or not. I think that some QBs, such as Johnny Unitas and Montana just had it right from the get-go. Most other good, or even great, QBs gradually acquire that poise over time. What I am pretty sure of is that this can't happen just from practice. At some point, you have to throw the QB into the fire in real games, not exhibition games, to at least see if the game slows down after several weeks. That is why I wish that Hack had been given a couple of starts at the end of last year.

I am very skeptical that Hack will thrive with the Jets. It is possible that he was wrecked by his last 2 seasons with Penn State, a la David Carr. I also agree with others who have stated that Bowles has made up his mind about Hack and will never change his opinion.

I agree, Not everyone is Joe Montana and most guys need some actual game play, and more then a couple weeks to learn. And how about some time to hang out in the pocket unmolested? Most young guys that don't live up to expectations, have been blind sided way to much from day 1. And the memory of that haunts them for a long long time

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Tony, it's impossible to argue with your point about the necessity for the game to slow down. I'm just not sure if pocket presence can be taught or not. I think that some QBs, such as Johnny Unitas and Montana just had it right from the get-go. Most other good, or even great, QBs gradually acquire that poise over time. What I am pretty sure of is that this can't happen just from practice. At some point, you have to throw the QB into the fire in real games, not exhibition games, to at least see if the game slows down after several weeks. That is why I wish that Hack had been given a couple of starts at the end of last year.

I am very skeptical that Hack will thrive with the Jets. It is possible that he was wrecked by his last 2 seasons with Penn State, a la David Carr. I also agree with others who have stated that Bowles has made up his mind about Hack and will never change his opinion.

I completely agree. Real games are a must. Watching from the sidelines just doesn't do it. I also feel that the coaching staff must show faith and commitment to the QB. Look at Petty last year. He knew he was playing for his career when he got in and the stress overwhelmed him.
as far as Bowles, I think he will play whoever he thinks will have the best chance to win games .
That's ultimately his job as HC.
I posted earlier this off-season that I would not be shocked to see Hack as starting QB this season. If Cousins is not signed, hell Mac may not even be targeting him for all we really Know. Hack Petty and a Jag could be the plan.
Two year extensions, making 3 years total could be for 1 year of Hack, a chance to replace him if needed in 2019 with jobs on the line if that fails. Chris Johnson seems to be very much on board with Mac n Bowles so it's not an impossibility. I don't think the Orginization has given up on Hack just yet, even though the fan base has.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

That's why Donte Scarnechia was brought out of retirement after the 2015 season I guess.

Unfortunately that table is all jumbled together but those kind of rankings don't always work out. Fitzpatrick is more mobil, brady drops back way more, the Jets offense is almost never on the field... I don't ever remember feeling like we had a #2 ranked oline and even with the cheatah line clearly on the downslide without Scarnechia, I never felt that ours was better then theirs. Did you? Not since Parcells.

I have never watched a Jet game and thought to myself, "Plenty of time wide open " like I do during a cheatah game. look at the superbowl as an example, you can pick any other game too as they are all the same. the first time brady was touched while he had the ball, was midway through the 4th qtr when he fumbled. Before that he had all day to stand in the pocket and wait for someone to get open. I don't need a stat table to show me what I can see with my eyes. I'd take their line over ours any day as I'm sure would you. but as you say none of this has anything to do with Hack. I'm just saying, anybody can have a good year, or a team can really play well together for a season. If they can do it one season, I don't see why they can't do it again. and most guys can't "have it click and the game slow down" without a good deal of time playing in games. You could have a guy who stinks in practice so he never plays that might play totally different in a game, but it also might take a number of games for it to click

I don't know anything about any of these guys personally, nor am I an expert on picking top notch QB's, but if they have made the NFL you have to believe that they have some ability to play the game. It's all about being in the right place at the right time. Since I know you like when I use brady as an example, I'll do it again. He is a product of the system he is in. If the Jets had drafted him, it's possible that he might never have seen the field, and if he did, he would have been knocked down onto it a lot more then he has been working for belichick. And as a Jet, if he bitched at the officials, they'd have thrown a flag at him

And you're right about the mental part of the game, especially at QB, a guy can have the tools but no brain and throw dumb int's, or a guy can be like Matt Ryan and play all world for an entire season and suddenly let the deamons into his head and forget how to play for half a superbowl.

but then again, any given Sunday right. I doubt anyone would have bet Foles would have outplayed brady any day no less in the Superbowl. How can we know what would happen if one of these kids got to play behind a good line on a well coached team, with a good running back and a group of receivers that never drop a pass(like you know who again) and a tight end named gronkowski, the game might just slow down and it might just click

Honestly I think the difference between the Patriots and Jets, (rest of the league too)is intelligence maybe barring Gronk. Lol Smallest coaching staff in the league but all very intelligent.
They have a system, a fairly complicated one too. They don't have the best athletes but they have players with high football IQs who know exactly what they should be doing on every play. That's what separates them from the rest of the league. IMO
Since you watched the super bowl 5 times, how many times was Foles sacked? I'm assuming it had to be way more than the one time Brady was sacked.
Now Brady, who may not have done near as well in NY as he did in NE would have likely won a few Super Bowls with the Jets. The Back to back AFC years and 2015.
I honestly don't think Hack would have won any in NE. But that's something we will never know.
But at least we are in agreement that Mac must address the O line or whoever the starting QB is will not succeed.

 

[Elias]

Yes, but my wife had the nerve to be talking to me, LOL, during that part of the conversation. I believe that the guru mentioned time and rep constraints for everyone but the first team QB and contractual restraints. I know that Pat Shurmer has said that he's seen Davis Webb in the building, but is not allowed to talk to him about football now due to NFL rules. However, to me this is an indictment of the Jets coaching staff. We can blame the lack of a breakthrough on the previous OC, but the new one, Bates, was the QB coach, so I have my doubts that anything will change. I wish that we had gotten the OC from the Eagles, John DeFillipi. I believe that he went to the Vikings. Coaching really does make a difference. Look at what McVay did for Jared Goff last year. The guru might also feel that poor coaching is to blame, but I don't think that he would say that to Anita.

i have no faith in this new OC to turn around Hack. He was on the staff when the team quit on Hack. also, I believe they are going back to run first again with the latest hires. We will see.

 

[SackExchange]

Over/under on when we get the next "Hack is turning the corner" article? I'd say either right before FA starts, or in the leadup to the draft.

 

[cheaterhater]

Honestly I think the difference between the Patriots and Jets, (rest of the league too)is intelligence maybe barring Gronk. Lol Smallest coaching staff in the league but all very intelligent.
They have a system, a fairly complicated one too. They don't have the best athletes but they have players with high football IQs who know exactly what they should be doing on every play. That's what separates them from the rest of the league. IMO
Since you watched the super bowl 5 times, how many times was Foles sacked? I'm assuming it had to be way more than the one time Brady was sacked.
Now Brady, who may not have done near as well in NY as he did in NE would have likely won a few Super Bowls with the Jets. The Back to back AFC years and 2015.
I honestly don't think Hack would have won any in NE. But that's something we will never know.
But at least we are in agreement that Mac must address the O line or whoever the starting QB is will not succeed.

Gronk. not smart. That's funny. I agree with you on why cheatahs are good. They have a lot of intelligence and they sprinkle in just enough non intelligence . But it all stems from belichick and I believe from his time with Parcells. But, it only works because they got on a winning roll which began and was kept alive by? That's right the tuck rule. On the other hand, the Jets could acquire a bunch of smart guys and it wouldn't work. Actually, nobody who would come to the Jets would in any way be considered smart

Foles saw a lot more pressure and threw better into tight coverage then brady. brady was , as always, plenty of time, wide open. If I had watched the game live, I would have turned it off after 2 drives. I don't say that cause I don't like brady, I say it cause it's true. And if Foles didn't get sacked, that just reinforces my point. Any mediocre qb can be a hero behind a great offensive line. That has always been my point with brady. All day in the pocket from day one of his career. One caveat, you have to be a winner too. some guys just can't win the big game- Matt ryan

before the superbowl, I was on a job with a younger (30 maybe) cheatah fan. I told him what I always say about brady. Told him to watch the superbowl and tell me if he didn't want to say "plenty of time wide open " every time brady had the ball. and I told him if brady saw pressure he would fail. We were away from the job for a couple weeks after the superbowl, when I went back, I wasn't thinking superbowl any more but the kid came right up to me as soon as I walked in. He said, " Hey, I haven't seen you since the superbowl." I said, "yeah I watched it 5 times it was so good. what'd you think" He said, " everything you said about brady was true, I watched for it and you were right"

You know why you are wrong that brady would have won those 3 superbowls in NY? Because he would have already been out of the league before those games.

I don't know what hack would do behind the cheetahs line because I haven't seen enough of him to have any feel for how good or bad he might be. I do remember Petty and Hack running for their lives the little they did get a chance to play. It's hard to learn anything if that's the case.... and the cheatahs record without brady, under 3 different qb's, one being 3rd string ... 14-6 ! so based on that I'd give Hack a shot. I mean who couldn't hit gronk with the ball?

and why the heck don't we go out and get some intelligent players like the cheatahs, why doesn't anyone try and emulate what they are doing? Clearly it works. I think most everyone just thinks it's because of brady and they don't look past that, which really amazes me

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

If we don't sign Cousins (it looks like we won't) I would fully commit to signing Andrew Norwell and Richburg, sign Paul Richardson and draft Quinton Nelson at #6 and Chubb/Michel/Guice in round 2 and put Bridgewater back there and keep Hackenburg. Anyone should be able to succeed with that lineup!

 

[Namath12]

Since Teddy's knee is iffy at best and because we don't know about Hack, I'd still draft a QB. If I knew that we could get Mason Rudolph or Lamar Jackson in the 2nd round (or maybe move back up into the late 1st round), I'd be fine with your plan. The problem is, we don't know howhigh we'd have to move up. Also, I can't see the Jets passing on Josh Allen if he somehow falls to #6.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

Since Teddy's knee is iffy at best and because we don't know about Hack, I'd still draft a QB. If I knew that we could get Mason Rudolph or Lamar Jackson in the 2nd round (or maybe move back up into the late 1st round), I'd be fine with your plan. The problem is, we don't know howhigh we'd have to move up. Also, I can't see the Jets passing on Josh Allen if he somehow falls to #6.

True but I don't think any of the big 4 will be there at #6. However, if that's the case either Chubb or Nelson or Barkley will be available and I'd run to take either. For example, if we take Chubb we may get Will Hernandez in round 2.

I get it about Teddy's knee but any signing would be contingent upon him passing a thorough physical OR signing Case Keenum. I also agree about drafting a QB in round 2.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Gronk. not smart. That's funny. I agree with you on why cheatahs are good. They have a lot of intelligence and they sprinkle in just enough non intelligence . But it all stems from belichick and I believe from his time with Parcells. But, it only works because they got on a winning roll which began and was kept alive by? That's right the tuck rule. On the other hand, the Jets could acquire a bunch of smart guys and it wouldn't work. Actually, nobody who would come to the Jets would in any way be considered smart

Foles saw a lot more pressure and threw better into tight coverage then brady. brady was , as always, plenty of time, wide open. If I had watched the game live, I would have turned it off after 2 drives. I don't say that cause I don't like brady, I say it cause it's true. And if Foles didn't get sacked, that just reinforces my point. Any mediocre qb can be a hero behind a great offensive line. That has always been my point with brady. All day in the pocket from day one of his career. One caveat, you have to be a winner too. some guys just can't win the big game- Matt ryan

before the superbowl, I was on a job with a younger (30 maybe) cheatah fan. I told him what I always say about brady. Told him to watch the superbowl and tell me if he didn't want to say "plenty of time wide open " every time brady had the ball. and I told him if brady saw pressure he would fail. We were away from the job for a couple weeks after the superbowl, when I went back, I wasn't thinking superbowl any more but the kid came right up to me as soon as I walked in. He said, " Hey, I haven't seen you since the superbowl." I said, "yeah I watched it 5 times it was so good. what'd you think" He said, " everything you said about brady was true, I watched for it and you were right"

You know why you are wrong that brady would have won those 3 superbowls in NY? Because he would have already been out of the league before those games.

I don't know what hack would do behind the cheetahs line because I haven't seen enough of him to have any feel for how good or bad he might be. I do remember Petty and Hack running for their lives the little they did get a chance to play. It's hard to learn anything if that's the case.... and the cheatahs record without brady, under 3 different qb's, one being 3rd string ... 14-6 ! so based on that I'd give Hack a shot. I mean who couldn't hit gronk with the ball?

and why the heck don't we go out and get some intelligent players like the cheatahs, why doesn't anyone try and emulate what they are doing? Clearly it works. I think most everyone just thinks it's because of brady and they don't look past that, which really amazes me

I think we're to busy trying to get on that initial roll, to emulate any team.
Years of terrible drafting, (the infamous Idzick 12) coupled by a long lack of discipline and accountability has left this franchise with both a lack of talent and intelligence. Throw in an owner who was too hands on in Woody ,( a true fan with good intentions, IMO) who wanted to win now , drove the "competitive rebuild" philosophy.
Now with Woody on hiatus , Chris Johnson appears to at least know what he doesn't know, and the team is finally rebuilding. Something we have desperately need for a long time. Year 1 done, entering year two, hopefully this off season adds depth and talent and next year ,year 3 fills in the majority of the missing pieces.
If not, I'm sure we will see a full turnover of FO and Coaching staff. But at least if that happens, the new regime will have something of a roster to work with.
Then hopefully they can build a system, or emulate the Patriots franchise.

 

[AFA2017]

I think we're to busy trying to get on that initial roll, to emulate any team.
Years of terrible drafting, (the infamous Idzick 12) coupled by a long lack of discipline and accountability has left this franchise with both a lack of talent and intelligence. Throw in an owner who was too hands on in Woody ,( a true fan with good intentions, IMO) who wanted to win now , drove the "competitive rebuild" philosophy.
Now with Woody on hiatus , Chris Johnson appears to at least know what he doesn't know, and the team is finally rebuilding. Something we have desperately need for a long time. Year 1 done, entering year two, hopefully this off season adds depth and talent and next year ,year 3 fills in the majority of the missing pieces.
If not, I'm sure we will see a full turnover of FO and Coaching staff. But at least if that happens, the new regime will have something of a roster to work with.
Then hopefully they can build a system, or emulate the Patriots franchise.

I totally agree. We are not in a Win Now mode Lets draft for year #2 rebuild. Its a deep draft and we should be able to get some good fits. I also believe this is Hacks last "Hurrah". He needs to show a lot more progress in his mental approach to tje game of football.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

If we don't sign Cousins (it looks like we won't) I would fully commit to signing Andrew Norwell and Richburg, sign Paul Richardson and draft Quinton Nelson at #6 and Chubb/Michel/Guice in round 2 and put Bridgewater back there and keep Hackenburg. Anyone should be able to succeed with that lineup!

If we sign Norwell , there's no way Mac drafts Nelson at 6.
i love everything else.