Hams (top four) QB evaluations

Green Jets & Ham

King Of All Draftniks
Jet Fanatics
JOSH ROSEN

Looks like an NFL QB straight out of central casting. By far the most polished QB in the draft, technically speaking, from his drop back, to his plant, to his quick release, to his tight spirals, the kid just looks like the finished product who can go and play in an NFL Game tomorrow and look more like a veteran than a rookie. Its hard to explain, other than to say, some guys are so mechanically perfect that they make it look pretty. Namath had that quality in his prime. Even guys like Vince Lombardi and his peers were in awe of how mechanically perfect he looked, that lightning quick release, and the way he could really spin it. I see a lot of those same characteristics in Rosen. Dude looks like he was born to be a drop back passer.

SAM DARNOLD

Doesn't have Rosen's poise and mechanical perfection, but he can make all the throws, looks a little more mobile, good size and a similarly strong arm. I personally think Rosen is a better QB purely from a technical and mechanical POV, but Darnold comes with less baggage because you know he's just going to shut his mouth and play football. There's no concerns about any hidden agendas or that the guy will ever go off the reservation and have his own agenda. But again, purely from a football POV and nothing else, I think Rosen is the better QB.

JOSH ALLEN

An enigma wrapped in a riddle. How this kid didn't tear the Mountain West Conference to shreds is a mystery too me. You look at this kids raw talent and tools and you can't help but think, he should have beaten those teams like a rented mule. I mean physically this kid has it all, and he has it all in abundance. Great size and he's built like a thoroughbred. Arm strength reminiscent of a young John Elway. Heck, he's even incredibly/surprisingly mobile too. Not exactly Steve Young, but the kid can absolutely make big plays with his legs if necessary. Physically there's just nothing missing. He really is the whole package. He should have dominated the MWC, but he didn't, in fact he didn't even complete 60% of his passes, and its hard to understand why? Was the talent he had at the skill positions that bad? Were his mechanics and foot work the problem? I suspect it was a combination of the two and you will really have to coach this kid up, it may require some patience, perhaps a year or two, but based on his raw tools and God-Given ability, there is no QB in this draft who has a higher ceiling. He can flop or he can become a HOF QB, thats how awesome his skill set is, but only if you can get him to reach his potential.

BAKER MAYFIELD

If this kid was two inches taller he'd be the #1 Overall Pick, no doubt about it, a slam dunk. This kid is so damn competitive it borders on maniacal, and he's literally one of the most accurate downfield passers I have ever seen in college football in my life. You want to dismiss that and attribute it to the BIG 12 and its lack of defense, go right ahead, but I've seen this kid make throws, from the pocket and on the roll, that were so pinpoint accurate its like he could literally hit a Gnat in the ass 30 yards downfield. Covered or uncovered. We're talking about back-to-back seasons as a +70% passer in D1A, with an absurd TD to INT ratio as well, and he threw for a million yards, and won a lot of games too. Is he cocky? Heck yeah, but I'd be cocky too if I could light defenses up the way this kid does, and as the old saying goes, its not bragging if you can actually do it. In that respect he reminds me of Namath, who was also considered cocky and arrogant until he went out and beat the vaunted NFL in SBIII, after which nobody called him cocky anymore, just confident and capable of backing it up. I could be wrong, but I think this is just what the Jets need, someone who is just arrogant enough to say "I don't give a flying f--k about the Jets history of failure. I'm here and we're gonna start winning now."
 
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Elias

The Invisible Man
Big Fish
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Ham - I believe we are going to run a west coast offense, right? If so, which one of these guys is most capable of being successful in that offense?
 

BlindsideD'Brick

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
Good analysis. I think I’ve come to the conclusion as to why I like Rosen the most: he questions things, doesn’t accept things simply because he’s told to, and he isn’t afraid to speak his mind. He’s like me.

It can be both a blessing and a curse. I respect guys who call BS when they smell it. And Rosen certainly seems like that guy. He wants to know why, and not just accept shallow explanations. I can see that bugging coaches. They just want you to shut up and do what you’re told. This is where Rosen’s “personality” gets questioned. I think the question about whether or not he really loves football is BS. He’s shown nothing to suggest that.

As a pure pocket passer, he’s the best QB in this draft. Accurate, tight spirals, and great drop back. I think he’s a franchise QB no doubt about it. You just have to accept his edginess.
 

RMJK

5th Year Team Option
Jet Fanatics
Darnold played HS baseball and college basketball, in addition to playing WR and LB and QB. The dude is in the best health and reminds me of big Ben. Rosen has had 3 concussions and a ACL surgery. I'd take my chances on Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold. BTW Mayfield is 5/8 inch taller than Drew Brees.
 

jets82

Curious George
Jet Fanatics
Green Jets & Ham;n158666 said:
JOSH ROSEN

Looks like an NFL QB straight out of central casting. By far the most polished QB in the draft, technically speaking, from his drop back, to his plant, to his quick release, to his tight spirals, the kid just looks like the finished product who can go and play in an NFL Game tomorrow and look more like a veteran than a rookie. Its hard to explain, other than to say, some guys are so mechanically perfect that they make it look pretty. Namath had that quality in his prime. Even guys like Vince Lombardi and his peers were in awe of how mechanically perfect he looked, that lightning quick release, and the way he could really spin it. I see a lot of those same characteristics in Rosen. Dude looks like he was born to be a drop back passer.

SAM DARNOLD

Doesn't have Rosen's poise and mechanical perfection, but he can make all the throws, looks a little more mobile, good size and a similarly strong arm. I personally think Rosen is a better QB purely from a technical and mechanical POV, but Darnold comes with less baggage because you know he's just going to shut his mouth and play football. There's no concerns about any hidden agendas or that the guy will ever go off the reservation and have his own agenda. But again, purely from a football POV and nothing else, I think Rosen is the better QB.

JOSH ALLEN

An enigma wrapped in a riddle. How this kid didn't tear the Mountain West Conference to shreds is a mystery too me. You look at this kids raw talent and tools and you can't help but think, he should have beaten those teams like a rented mule. I mean physically this kid has it all, and he has it all in abundance. Great size and he's built like a thoroughbred. Arm strength reminiscent of a young John Elway. Heck, he's even incredibly/surprisingly mobile too. Not exactly Steve Young, but the kid can absolutely make big plays with his legs if necessary. Physically there's just nothing missing. He really is the whole package. He should have dominated the MWC, but he didn't, in fact he didn't even complete 60% of his passes, and its hard to understand why? Was the talent he had at the skill positions that bad? Were his mechanics and foot work the problem? I suspect it was a combination of the two and you will really have to coach this kid up, it may require some patience, perhaps a year or two, but based on his raw tools and God-Given ability, there is no QB in this draft who has a higher ceiling. He can flop or he can become a HOF QB, thats how awesome his skill set is, but only if you can get him to reach his potential.

BAKER MAYFIELD

If this kid was two inches taller he'd be the #1 Overall Pick, no doubt about it, a slam dunk. This kid is so damn competitive it borders on maniacal, and he's literally one of the most accurate downfield passers I have ever seen in college football in my life. You want to dismiss that and attribute it to the BIG 12 and its lack of defense, go right ahead, but I've seen this kid make throws, from the pocket and on the roll, that were so pinpoint accurate its like he could literally hit a Gnat in the ass 30 yards downfield. Covered or uncovered. We're talking about back-to-back seasons as a +70% passer in D1A, with an absurd TD to INT ratio as well, and he threw for a million yards, and won a lot of games too. Is he cocky? Heck yeah, but I'd be cocky too if I could light defenses up the way this kid does, and as the old saying goes, its not bragging if you can actually do it. In that respect he reminds me of Namath, who was also considered cocky and arrogant until he went out and beat the vaunted NFL in SBIII, after which nobody called him cocky anymore, just confident and capable of backing it up. I could be wrong, but I think this is just what the Jets need, someone who is just arrogant enough to say "I don't give a flying f--k about the Jets history of failure. I'm here and we're gonna start winning now."

Great analysis especially on Mayfield. I’d be happy with either of the four and don’t have a preference or I’m trying not to anyway because I’m pretty sure if I did it would most likely be wrong one. I just want to Jets to pick the right guy whomever he maybe and let the chips fall where they may. If he is the right guy then it will be a success for the next decade at least but hopefully 15 to 20 years with at least one Super Bowl win to go with it. I just truly love that the Jets have finally done this, I mean it’s been a decade since they did something like this. Of course give the kid three or four years to evaluate his development and the trade. If it doesn’t work out then do it all again and again and again till you get it right.
 

Green Jets & Ham

King Of All Draftniks
Jet Fanatics
Ham - I believe we are going to run a west coast offense, right? If so, which one of these guys is most capable of being successful in that offense?
Hard to answer because not all WCO's are coached the same. Some coaches want purely drop back, pocket passers to run their WCO systems, guys like Dan Fouts (incidentally, Don Coryell is the real father of the WCO, not Bill Walsh). And some coaches, like Walsh, prefer QB's who are mobile and can buy time to give guys a better chance to get open, guys like Montana and Young, or run when all else fails. I would say someone like Coryell would prefer a Rosen or Darnold, whereas someone like Walsh would prefer a Mayfield or Allen.

I know that sounds like a copout, but its true. For example, even if you go back to Tom Landry, Staubach's mobility drove him nuts. He just wanted him to drop back, go thru his progressions, pick the right read, or throw it away and live to fight another down. They butted heads over that relentlessly. Whereas Walsh would have done ZERO to tame Staubach's improvisational skills as a QB.

So I guess my answer is, its not one size fits all, not even in the WCO. It really depends on the coach, does he have a strict interpretation of his playbook and demand that you run it exactly the way its drawn up on the pages, or do you have a coach who recognizes great improvisational skills and is willing to give his QB the freedom to use them ... when necessary.

I don't know enough about our OC to tell you which category if falls under?
 
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Green Jets & Ham

King Of All Draftniks
Jet Fanatics
First, I'm assuming that in one direction or the other, Darnold and Rosen will be the first two players off the board.

That leaves Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield.

That said, I think Hackenberg spooked Mac away from guys who look the part, who look like Tarzan but play like Jane.

I know its not fair to make any direct comparisons between the two, but they share enough in common, GOOD AND BAD, although Allen is 100 times more mobile, to give Mac serious second thoughts about Allen. I could be totally wrong, in the end Allen could be a HOF QB, I've already aknowledged that, his physical tools are that awesome, but his deficiencies are too closely aligned to Hackenberg's to put a real scare into Mac.

Thats why in the end I think Mac will say f--k it, Mayfield is not the prototype, but the SOB can hit a gnat in the ass from 30 yards away and he has balls of steel.

Call it a hunch.
 
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jets82

Curious George
Jet Fanatics
Green Jets & Ham;n158760 said:
First, I'm assuming that in one direction or the other, Darnold and Rosen will be the first two players off the board.

That leaves Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield.

That said, I think Hackenberg spooked Mac away from guys who look the part, who look like Tarzan but play like Jane.

I know its not fair to make any direct comparisons between the two, but they share enough in common, GOOD AND BAD, although Allen is 100 times more mobile, to give Mac serious second thoughts about Allen. I could be totally wrong, in the end Allen could be a HOF QB, I've already aknowledged that, his physical tools are that awesome, but his deficiencies are too closely aligned to Hackenberg's to put a real scare into Mac.

Thats why in the end I think Mac will say f--k it, Mayfield is not the prototype, but the SOB can hit a gnat in the ass from 30 yards away and he has balls of steel.

Call it a hunch.

Makes sense but dammit Allen can throw that ball like not many ever could. I could care less who they pick between the four just get it right dammit. I’m just happy and proud to be able to watch Jets football again. Haven’t watched a game period or atleast watched one with any real investments in about 5 years.
 

NewMFS62

Weeb's Mentor
Jet Fanatics
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Makes sense but dammit Allen can throw that ball like not many ever could. I could care less who they pick between the four just get it right dammit. I’m just happy and proud to be able to watch Jets football again. Haven’t watched a game period or atleast watched one with any real investments in about 5 years.

That's what they said about a guy named Concanon, who played for the Bears. He could throw a football through a barn door, but he couldn't even hit the barn. Last time I checked he, and a lot of guys like him, aren't exactly enshrined in Canton. Give me the quarterback, thanks. My preference is Mayfield, with Rosen next. I don't know why, but I think Darnold would be a wuss in terms of handling pressure in NY on and off the field (the media).
Later
 

TebowCan'tThrow

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That's what they said about a guy named Concanon, who played for the Bears. He could throw a football through a barn door, but he couldn't even hit the barn. Last time I checked he, and a lot of guys like him, aren't exactly enshrined in Canton. Give me the quarterback, thanks. My preference is Mayfield, with Rosen next. I don't know why, but I think Darnold would be a wuss in terms of handling pressure in NY on and off the field (the media).
Later

There is something I don't like about Rosen. There is a lot I don't like about Mayfield. I will say he is probably the best equipped to deal with the NY media, but he is also going to be affected the most by the nightlife and then the media out fo anyone in this draft.
 

jets82

Curious George
Jet Fanatics
That's what they said about a guy named Concanon, who played for the Bears. He could throw a football through a barn door, but he couldn't even hit the barn. Last time I checked he, and a lot of guys like him, aren't exactly enshrined in Canton. Give me the quarterback, thanks. My preference is Mayfield, with Rosen next. I don't know why, but I think Darnold would be a wuss in terms of handling pressure in NY on and off the field (the media).
Later
I hear you and don’t disagree. Guys that can throw the ball 80+ yards also have to be accurate and if Allen isn’t accurate or accurate enough then don’t draft him. Like I said before I don’t have a preference and don’t care which one of the four they pick just draft the right one. Now ofcourse I do sorta Kinda have a preference but I’m scared to say who it is. I don’t want to jinx it. I also won’t mention it because I don’t want to start to get my heart set on that one player and if the Jets don’t draft him then I’m pissed off about it. Besides that who I’m also leaning towards maybe the wrong guy anyway so why even bother. I just want the Jets to get it right. Draft that rookie quarterback who will be our guy for the next 15 to 20 years and win us a few Super Bowls.

Note: I just want the Jets to draft us the next Tom Brady who will last us 20 years and win us five plus SBs, if that is ever possible again in the NFL. I want our team to be the ones to do it.
 
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lounap23

Legend
Jet Fanatics
Makes sense but dammit Allen can throw that ball like not many ever could. I could care less who they pick between the four just get it right dammit. I’m just happy and proud to be able to watch Jets football again. Haven’t watched a game period or atleast watched one with any real investments in about 5 years.

That's all the matters #JustGetItRight!!!!!
 

jets82

Curious George
Jet Fanatics
The more I think about this the more I think the Jets will get the second quarterback on the board, whomever that might be. The reason I say this is because of the Giants, I don’t think are going to take a chance on losing Barkley. Maybe that would have been the case anyway. Any team that wants to trade up in their spot to get a QB is going to be pretty far back like the Bills, Denver or Arizona. The Giants will not get Barkley if they switch to their spots. Knowing that the Browns will pick him up at number four if they don’t get him at number two. So I believe the Giants will take Barkley and we will have a choice of the other three QBs. Whomever the Browns take first. If this is the case then this was definitely a great trade for the Jets and this might have been their thinking the entire time. I know I’m probably giving to Jets too much credit here but they probably already have a very good idea as well on which QB the Browns will draft. My overall thought process here is they might be thinking that this trade now forces the Browns to now draft a QB at one, if they didn't already know that the Browns were going to do that regardless of this trade. If this is the case then that puts the Giants in a position to have to draft Barkley to not lose him at number four. If this their thought process and it all works out then its genius. They just then have to draft the right one and still develop him to be a HOFer and SB winner. Easier said then done.
 
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Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
There is something I don't like about Rosen. There is a lot I don't like about Mayfield. I will say he is probably the best equipped to deal with the NY media, but he is also going to be affected the most by the nightlife and then the media out fo anyone in this draft.

Joe Namath was also affected a lot by the NY night life.
 

NewMFS62

Weeb's Mentor
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Rosen will be swamped by ladies saying, "Are you married? Have I got a girl for you."
Later
 
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