Christopher Johnson: Let the players kneel.

[lounap23]

I am not glad what he said and I am against kneeling for the Anthem. Everyone has a point of view. Some of you voted for Trump, some for Hillary and others said, "What the F***"! I still root for the Jets, have my Sunday Ticket and yell my displeasure at the TV when the players kneel. Some of us are Firefighters, Police officers, Veterans and Active Duty military members who look upon the National Anthem in a different way that Lawyers, Teachers, Business Executives, and every day Americans who may look at it. One thing at the end of the day is we are all Americans. Only the idiots are not NY Jet Fans!!

The beauty of this country is we have the freedoms we have. Some of us Firefighters, Police Officers, Veterans and Active Duty members take no offense to the players kneeling because we know it isn't about disrespecting the military or the country. It's about trying to make a statement to their perception of Social injustice. Whether it is right or wrong is another story... But to follow some false narrative of it being disrespectful to the military and the country is why I agree with Mr. Johnson. There is no rule, bylaw or directive from the NFL or any team that says a player must stand for the National Anthem so the argument about it being at their job and they need to stand isn't a very strong one,

 

[lounap23]

Lounap23, you are another old school poster who I enjoy reading.

I am also a big supporter of constitutional rights including freedom of speech. But to me, there’s a difference between the right to free speech on your own time, and doing it at work. As I said before, the kneeling in protest of the treatment of black male Americans is a matter of perception. The statistics don’t back what they’re protesting. Sixteen unarmed black males were killed by police in 2016. And there were many different circumstances surrounding each case. Some were police brutality, some were cases of individuals refusing to follow police commands and advancing towards officers with unknown objects, etc. Many different scenarios. No broad brush can be used to characterize them all. The fact that 93% of black males are killed by other black males is a harsh reality that isn’t being addressed by those who push this narrative. Instead, they attempt to divert the nation’s attention towards authority figures like the police. That’s disingenuous.

If the players in the NFL want to really make a difference in their communities, get involved as mentors in the inner cities. Become “big brothers” to young black men and steer them in the right direction. Many don’t have fathers around to teach them how to be responsible young men. So they join gangs for acceptance. Big brothers programs are very positive and effective.

That’s how I see it, anyway.

I agree with a lot,just about all of this post, but there is no rule, bylaw or directive from the NFL or any team that says a player must stand for the National Anthem so the argument about it being at their job and they need to stand isn't a very strong one. No I see your point. Their is a time and place for everything and from your perspective this isn't the time and place for them to protest their perceived social injustice, right or wrong, but their perception is it is the time and place and there is absolutely nothing that says they can't....

But with that said I agree with you. I would like to see Celebrities from all areas get more involved with communities on many levels and work with the police dept, Big Brother, and a list of others to have a more positive effect. Also, it would be nice if we all did the same and if we all tried to make every community better, if we all worked towards eliminating perceptions that do nothing to advance society. Instead of buying into the Far Right or Far Left paradigm.. But mostly for here lets just get back to talking football and the NY Jets.

Oh one last thing... unfortunately Perception is reality in the world we live in... Facts and statistics clearly aren't important in the world anymore... SAD!!

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

I agree with a lot,just about all of this post, but there is no rule, bylaw or directive from the NFL or any team that says a player must stand for the National Anthem so the argument about it being at their job and they need to stand isn't a very strong one. No I see your point. Their is a time and place for everything and from your perspective this isn't the time and place for them to protest their perceived social injustice, right or wrong, but their perception is it is the time and place and there is absolutely nothing that says they can't....

But with that said I agree with you. I would like to see Celebrities from all areas get more involved with communities on many levels and work with the police dept, Big Brother, and a list of others to have a more positive effect. Also, it would be nice if we all did the same and if we all tried to make every community better, if we all worked towards eliminating perceptions that do nothing to advance society. Instead of buying into the Far Right or Far Left paradigm.. But mostly for here lets just get back to talking football and the NY Jets.

Oh one last thing... unfortunately Perception is reality in the world we live in... Facts and statistics clearly aren't important in the world anymore... SAD!!

NFL Operations Manual:

The National Anthem must be played before every game and players must be on the sideline. During the Anthem, players on the field and on the sideline should stand at attention, face the flag, hold their helmets in the left hand, and refrain from talking...It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country”.


You’re correct, it doesn’t say must. It says should. And no punitive measures are suggested because it’s technically not the rule book. However, it does correctly imply that large numbers of the American public will take any behavior inconsistent with this guideline as disrespectful to our country. And not just Far Right people, either. Many “middle of the road” and liberal football fans are disgusted (or simply don’t approve of) the kneeling, too. And they’re the paying customers. Don’t piss off your customers. And in some cases, don’t piss off the GM’s and owners, either. Or you’ll find yourself unemployed during FA!

 

[isired]

Have you seen the ratings decline for the NFL?

Trust me, the owners have, and like it or or not its a business, and telling half of your fans to Go F themselves is never good for business.

The players can do whatever they want on THEIR TIME, but not on the NFL's time ... the NFL owners have every right to protect their "business"

You're telling half your fans to go F themselves either way, so you might as well be true to your values.

And the ratings thing is overblown - paid are consuming media in a lot of different ways these days. The only thing that matters to the NFL is how much $$$ they can sell their product for, and TV contracts and toral media revenue is through the roof, let alone total revenue.

 

[Bigmoe]

Not necessarily. Budget cuts have forced most Connecticut state colleges to rely more heavily on adjunct faculty, paid per course without benefits and legally restricted to how many courses they can teach for the state. Tenure-track jobs are scarce, and tenure itself is dying.

It's the case throughout higher education across the board, but especially in states where tight budgets lead to cuts in the state college system. So while people complain about their taxes, an entire generation of academics have worked hard to earn doctorates, only to face piecemealing together teaching at multiple colleges to make a living, denied any certainly, stability, or benefits.

My son is going through this right now.
Graduated from Princeton , Doctorate in Pure Math MIT
I tried to steer him to finance but he loves Academia and it's a struggle .

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

You're telling half your fans to go F themselves either way, so you might as well be true to your values.

And the ratings thing is overblown - paid are consuming media in a lot of different ways these days. The only thing that matters to the NFL is how much $$$ they can sell their product for, and TV contracts and toral media revenue is through the roof, let alone total revenue.

It’s actually more than half. A national poll during the protests last season revealed that 64% of Americans disapproved of the kneeling. And nearly 80% wanted “less politics in sports”.

Regarding profits, I’ll just say this: 90’s Boy Bands made millions of dollars too, despite the fact that most Americans thought the “music” was pretty lame compared to musicians who actually play instruments and write actual thought-provoking lyrics.

My point? Just because it still rakes in millions doesn’t speak to its quality or legitimacy.

 

[SackExchange]

My son is going through this right now.
Graduated from Princeton , Doctorate in Pure Math MIT
I tried to steer him to finance but he loves Academia and it's a struggle .

It is definitely a struggle. One has to be creative at times. And it's just a field that is not tangibly rewarded comparably to the amount of work you put into it.

 

[hobson54]

and i thought kraft was supposed to be buddies with trump:




The owner of the New England Patriots said in a meeting with NFL owners, executives and players that President Trump was using public fury over football players who kneel during the national anthem as "fodder to do his mission."

In an audio recording of the private meeting, which was obtained by The New York Times, Robert Kraft said that Trump seized on the national anthem protests to spread division and anger.

"The problem we have is, we have a president who will use that as fodder to do his mission that I don’t feel is in the best interests of America,” Kraft, a longtime Trump supporter, said, according to the Times. "It’s divisive and it’s horrible."


Jeffrey Lurie, the owner of the Philadelphia Eagles, said that NFL owners and teams had to be careful "not to be baited" by the president into behavior that may be used to stoke political outrage.

"We’ve got to be careful not to be baited by Trump or whomever else," Lurie said, according to the Times. "We have to find a way to not be divided and not get baited."

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

The argument about “stoking anger and division” can be made against the players, too. A lot of people don’t agree with the basic premise of the protest, and don’t want political activism in sports.

 

[jetgreen13]

The argument about “stoking anger and division” can be made against the players, too. A lot of people don’t agree with the basic premise of the protest, and don’t want political activism in sports.

so sad, so bad i guess..

 

[hobson54]

The argument about “stoking anger and division” can be made against the players, too. A lot of people don’t agree with the basic premise of the protest, and don’t want political activism in sports.

probably a little chicken and the egg to it.

if the president didn't use his platform to call out the protests, the outcry from the public may have been more muted. i'm not saying that people may not have shared their displeasure with the protests, but if it didn't become a political football (pun intended), then we may have seen less of an escalation from both the players and the portion of the public who took offense to the protests.

the protests started in 2016. it wasn't until after trump made an issue of them in 2017 that they became the national headline they became. and the number of players who engaged in protests increased dramatically after trump took on other players, saying they should be fired.

so i think this plays into what kraft and other owners were saying, that trump was using the protests to rile up his base. and kraft is supposed to be friendly with the president, as opposed to certain other owners who wear their trump hatred on their sleeves.

 

[jetgreen13]

probably a little chicken and the egg to it.

if the president didn't use his platform to call out the protests, the outcry from the public may have been more muted.

i think our president's stance on race speaks for itself.. as do his dog whistles & those who secretly relish in them..

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

probably a little chicken and the egg to it.

if the president didn't use his platform to call out the protests, the outcry from the public may have been more muted. i'm not saying that people may not have shared their displeasure with the protests, but if it didn't become a political football (pun intended), then we may have seen less of an escalation from both the players and the portion of the public who took offense to the protests.

the protests started in 2016. it wasn't until after trump made an issue of them in 2017 that they became the national headline they became. and the number of players who engaged in protests increased dramatically after trump took on other players, saying they should be fired.

so i think this plays into what kraft and other owners were saying, that trump was using the protests to rile up his base. and kraft is supposed to be friendly with the president, as opposed to certain other owners who wear their trump hatred on their sleeves.

I don’t dispute that President Trump’s brash response to the protests helped fuel the fire of the players and his base. But focusing on Trump diverts people’s attention away from what was supposed to be the issue from the outset: police brutality against black men. Or specifically, that black men should fear for their lives and safety because of the actions of a very small percentage of cops who abuse their power and authority. IMO, players used Trump’s rhetoric to make the spurious claim that racism existed in the White House.

 

[hobson54]

IMO, players used Trump’s rhetoric to make the spurious claim that racism existed in the White House.

i'm not so sure that people are pointing to the nfl/ national anthem controversy when claiming racism exists in the WH. nor am i sure it is a spurious claim.

and to be very clear, i am NOT in any way accusing people who oppose these protests as racists nor think their disapproval is racially motivated. i respect your opinion on the matter and don't think you have a racist bone in your body. i can't say the same about our president. but i think this is tending too much towards the political, so i probably shouldn't say any more.

 

[SackExchange]

i'm not so sure that people are pointing to the nfl/ national anthem controversy when claiming racism exists in the WH. nor am i sure it is a spurious claim.

and to be very clear, i am NOT in any way accusing people who oppose these protests as racists nor think their disapproval is racially motivated. i respect your opinion on the matter and don't think you have a racist bone in your body. i can't say the same about our president. but i think this is tending too much towards the political, so i probably shouldn't say any more.

I hold this response in pretty high esteem. Based on past discussions on scout, I know hobson is more toward Brick's side of the spectrum than my side, which is why I think his critiques of the WH have a good bit of credibility.

That said, I agree with the last past, as well, and think on this board, we may be best served discussing the fine art of beer and the finer prospects of tomorrow night's draft.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

i'm not so sure that people are pointing to the nfl/ national anthem controversy when claiming racism exists in the WH. nor am i sure it is a spurious claim.

and to be very clear, i am NOT in any way accusing people who oppose these protests as racists nor think their disapproval is racially motivated. i respect your opinion on the matter and don't think you have a racist bone in your body. i can't say the same about our president. but i think this is tending too much towards the political, so i probably shouldn't say any more.

Good idea. We all get along much better when we avoid politics.

 

[SackExchange]

Good idea. We all get along much better when we avoid politics.

Agreed...

So, beer and QBs?

 

[NewMFS62]

Agreed...

So, beer and QBs?

When I hear Mel Kiper rate the quarterbacks, I want to have a beer.
Later

 

[SackExchange]

When I hear Mel Kiper rate the quarterbacks, I want to have a beer.
Later

Fortunately, Kiper's hair doubles as a beer cooler.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

Agreed...

So, beer and QBs?

Two subjects I can talk about for hours.