Christopher Johnson: Let the players kneel.

BlindsideD'Brick

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That Constitution, when initially drafted in 1787, established that in slave states, for every five slaves, three could count toward proportional representation, while zero of the five were granted the vote. Equal protection has been a long process, one that is still going on. That is why the Constitution is a fluid document, and why changes have occurred under the amendment process for more than two centuries. I assume, then, if you are talking about the Constitution offering equal protection, that you are acknowledging that the Constitution is a fluid, living document, open to new interpretations and changes over generations? That's a sentiment I do not hear very often echoed by the right.

And why is it so easy to explain away the police as a "small minority" while condemning an even smaller number of violent and destructive protesters as "mislead" and having "burned down their communities," or a yet even smaller number of school administrators and cafe owners as a "bunch of fascists who hated their pro Trump apparel."

So the several instances (likely easily in the dozens) of white police officers who have used deadly force on black victims is a "small minority," but the one California school administrator and the one New York cafe you cited are a "bunch of fascists?" Seriously?

When you say something like that, it's tough to view your interpretation of bias in the media with anything but skepticism.

And for the record, as for the cafe, according to many conservatives, when it's a same-sex couple wanting a wedding cake, businesses should have the freedom to choose who they serve, but when it's a Trump supporter in a red hat, it's fascism for not serving that patron. Convenient.

Here, I’ll make myself more clear.

The cops who unlawfully shoot and kill black people should be jailed and stripped of their badges.

And the liberals who refuse service to Trump supporters at cafes, and send kids home from school for wearing Trump apparel don’t understand American ideals. (Did the Obama shirts advertising “Hope and Change” get anyone sent home from school?)

And since you brought it up, sure anyone who refuses to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple is an idiot, too.
 

Bigmoe

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And since you brought it up, sure anyone who refuses to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple is an idiot, too.

Blahahahhahaha
Like they couldn't go to a gay baker? And have a nice cream filled cake?
Another example of it getting it shoved down our thoughts .
Hey , no offense but that's sounds obscene
 

LIJETFAN

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This has been a relatively civil discourse which is good. I would simply add this - the polarization that exists in the country is unfortunately reflected here too. And that, in my opinion is not good. The world is not divided into Trump supporters and liberals. Unfortunately, that is what Trump sells, it is what the Rush Limbaughs of the world sell, it is what Fox news sells, and it is what many of the media outlets on the left sell as well.

So back to the topic at hand, I applaud Christopher Johnson for his approach. The league policy is what it is, but at the end of the day, he owns the team. And he is going to stand behind his players whatever they decide to do and support them individually and collectively as a team. Good for him. That is real leadership. Here's what leadership is not - Leadership is not a bunch of demagogues spouting off nonsensical, baseless, fact-less political rhetoric. Leadership is not divisive in tone or in deed. Leadership is never bigoted. Leadership is the exact opposite of all of those characteristics. And when people in this country start to figure that out, they will also recognize that we have a leadership vacuum, which frankly starts at the top and cascades from there.
 
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SackExchange

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This has been a relatively civil discourse which is good. I would simply add this - the polarization that exists in the country is unfortunately reflected here too. And that, in my opinion is not good. The world is not divided into Trump supporters and liberals. Unfortunately, that is what Trump sells, it is what the Rush Limbaughs of the world sell, it is what Fox news sells, and it is what many of the media outlets on the left sell as well.

So back to the topic at hand, I applaud Christopher Johnson for his approach. The league policy is it what it is, but at the end of the day, he owns the team. And he is going to stand behind his players whatever they decide to do and support them individually and collectively as a team. Good for him. That is real leadership. Here's what leadership is not - Leadership is not a bunch of demagogues spouting off nonsensical, baseless, fact-less political rhetoric. Leadership is not divisive in tone or in deed. Leadership is never bigoted. Leadership is the exact opposite of all of those characteristics. And when people in this country start to figure that out, they will also recognize that we have a leadership vacuum, which frankly starts at the top and cascades from there.

This.
 

SackExchange

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I will say, I don't think liberal is a bad word, as it's often portrayed to be. For that matter, I don't think conservative is a bad word. Both words themselves have admirable qualities, as do both ideologies.

The difference lies in philosophy. It's OK to have different ideas about the future of the country, and what the best path forward is. I have a problem when two things happen:

1. When one side is demonized by the others as not being patriotic enough because of those different views, and
2. When one side puts their own self-interests above those of the country.

Those two things should never happen.
 

NCgreen12

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The players and the NFL blew this one. Social injustice is something we all should strive for regardless of your political or life philosophy. The NFL is a marketing juggernaut that could have been utilized to make a more positive, less polarizing effect on this initiative. Owners using their NFL weight getting together with the more active players and creating a positive movement that works with the police and the communities for a better understanding.

However, some of the players chose to go nuclear (and kneel during the Anthem) and bring maximum visibility to the topic. They've certainly accomplished that but also probably polarized a good portion of the folks that might have supported their efforts done in a less "in your face" method. The flag is something that is very sacred to many Americans and there can be no other side but showing respect regardless of your beef. It's not what America represents that has led to some of these injustices. It's in some cases over-zealous, racist, over-reacting, scarred during the fight or flight moment or just not properly trained police officers. BTW - There are over 10 million arrests in America per year so the major majority of them I would guess are done without major incident but also do not have a video associated with it that people want to see.

There are supposed to be a lot of smart owners in the NFL but in the words of our last president they "acted stupidly" and created this mess. Good luck fixing this one.

They should probably just get rid of the National Anthem during the game anyway but it's been too long of a standing tradition and that would bring out a whole new set of problems including a couple dozen tweets by you know who!!!!
 

LIJETFAN

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My personal view is that the next generation, the millennials and the kids the follow are much smarter than this. They get it and they have significant voting power. And when they come out to vote in force, and I think they will, there will be a change of the political leadership and in the political discourse in this country. I am looking forward to that day...which is coming in my opinion sooner than most think.
 

TebowCan'tThrow

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My personal view is that the next generation, the millennials and the kids the follow are much smarter than this. They get it and they have significant voting power. And when they come out to vote in force, and I think they will, there will be a change of the political leadership and in the political discourse in this country. I am looking forward to that day...which is coming in my opinion sooner than most think.

There is nothing I have seen from the Millennials to indicate they are smart. They might be book smart, but they are extremely life stupid!! I'm glad I will be in a cabin somewhere with a beard, guns and dogs when they take over this planet.
 
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TonyFtLaud

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I usually avoid topics like this but after reading through the post I thought I would add my opinion.
As a Disabled veteran who has lost many friends and family members in defense of this great nation, I can say I have nothing but love and respect for our flag. It holds a very significant meaning for me.
When I took the oath to defend the Constitution of the United states, I did not get to pick and choose what articles I would defend and if given that choice, as I bet every veteran woul do , I'd have chosen all of them .The players who are protesting in no way offend me. They are exercising a right that so many Americans gave their lives to defend.
I get the NFL is a private buisness, but as long as they are being paid tax dollars for the national anthem presentation , recieving millions of dollars in tax breaks and billions of dollars in public funds for stadiums , the players should be able to kneel during the Anthem.
To those who are so offended , I ask :
Did you boycott Anheuser-Busch for the cans depicting the Flag , did you ever use those cute flag napkins and paper plates and cups on Memorial day and July 4th? Does the use of the Flag in the NFL logo offend you?
All violations of the US Flag code which some one brought up earlier. In fact, the way the flag is displayed at the game for the Anthem is a direct violation of the US flag code as is the use of the flag on NFL uniforms.
There have been a few false things reported regarding the new policy as well.
Chris Johnson did not vote Yes, the 49s owner didn't obstain. There was never any vote by owners on the new policy. It also was never brought before the NFLPA so it may not even be enforceable. As far as Chris Johnson saying he,the orginization, would absorb the fines, the players are not being fined for kneeling, the orginization is. He simply is supporting his players , (employees) and will not impose fines on the team level.
Prior to last season I suggested players and owners lock arms in unity and was laughed at. Told that Kumbaya shit was stupid and would never happen.......
It did and not 1 Jet took a knee. IMO players and owners need to come to a resolution, the kneeling had died down and was nearly a non issue until the league brought it back to the forefront and I will not even mention Trump's comments.
No matter where you stand on the issue, there is no denying the players have brought awarnessa to their cause which was their intent.
Now let's see if the players and owners can come to some arrangements to advance their cause from conversation to action.
 

NewMFS62

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Tony, as a fellow vet (Army 65-67) I applaud and support your comments. I have posted it elsewhere, because it reflects how I feel on the issue, and it says it better than I did.
Thank you.
Later
 
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isired

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America hasn’t let you down. A small minority of police officers who abused their power has let you down. Don’t protest the flag. The flag represents freedom, abolition of slavery, equal rights under the law, and prosecution of those who violate your civil rights.

The American flag isn’t the enemy. The flag represents the ideals that support equal protection under the Constitution.
You're missing the point entirely. America HAS let them down. More often than not, that small minority of police officers go unpunished, or underpunished, for assault and murder. In all corners of the country. That's an America problem.

There are "different Americas", depending on the color of your skin, your sexual preference, etc. If my white sons are with a large group hanging out on a corner, their idea of getting harassed by the NYPD is the local youth officer parks his van there and stares at them. My friends sons, who are African-American and live in Harlem, get walked 50 yards from a corner near a smooth stone building to find a rough brick building to slam them against, scraping up their face etc., before letting them go - because they were, like my kids, just a group of teenagers hanging out.

And your spot-on depiction of what the flag represents is EXACTLY why taking a knee during the anthem is good way to peacefully protest when you feel you are NOT being afforded equal rights and equal protection, and that those who violate your civil rights are allowed to do so WITHOUT prosecution.
 

NewMFS62

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Folks, I've been participating on sports websites for almost 15 years. And many of them are no longer here because political discussions drove the members apart. I wouldn't want it to happen here. Can we just all agree that we disagree on this issue and move on to football?
Later
 

TebowCan'tThrow

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Folks, I've been participating on sports websites for almost 15 years. And many of them are no longer here because political discussions drove the members apart. I wouldn't want it to happen here. Can we just all agree that we disagree on this issue and move on to football?
Later

I second that motion. All I care about is football. Let people peacefully protest. Nobody is going to change their mind based off my opinions. I just don't care anymore. I just care about football.
 

TonyFtLaud

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So, Darnold looked much better in the second week of OTAs and Teddy's knee is still holding up!!!!
 

Bigmoe

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Back to the baker

Supreme court rules he doesn't have to bake for gay couple
 

SackExchange

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Back to the baker

Supreme court rules he doesn't have to bake for gay couple

Yes. But their ruling was specific to this case, saying the lower courts had not sufficiently considered his religious argument. The ruling did not set a legal precedent that all private companies can discriminate in who they cater to.
 

BlindsideD'Brick

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Folks, I've been participating on sports websites for almost 15 years. And many of them are no longer here because political discussions drove the members apart. I wouldn't want it to happen here. Can we just all agree that we disagree on this issue and move on to football?
Later

What’s clear to me, is that I see a very different America and Justice system than others here. Nobody’s changing anyone’s mind on this.

So yes, back to football.
 
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