Hackenburg vs Gholston Debacles

[mydogisajetsfan]

For what it's worth, while both the Hack and Gholston picks where monumental failures there is a distinct difference between the two. When Gholston was picked there was debate as to who really wanted him. Was it Mangini? Tannenbaum? Bradway? Woody? We still don't know for certain. In the case of Hackenburg, it was Mac's pick, period. The fact that we now have a football person running the show who is accountable for this team, rather than a draft-by-committee strategy, where no one is accountable, is a very good thing. Yes, Mac made a big mistake in selecting Hackenburg in the second round. I at least give him credit for sucking it up, admitting his mistake and moving forward.

To me that's a big difference and the right way to build a team.

 

[The Wicker Man]

At the time, I didn't hate the Gholston pick, but, I hated the Hack pick from the start.

You're right, he f'd up and was able to move on.

 

[jetgreen13]

For what it's worth, while both the Hack and Gholston picks where monumental failures there is a distinct difference between the two. When Gholston was picked there was debate as to who really wanted him. Was it Mangini? Tannenbaum? Bradway? Woody? We still don't know for certain. In the case of Hackenburg, it was Mac's pick, period. The fact that we now have a football person running the show who is accountable for this team, rather than a draft-by-committee strategy, where no one is accountable, is a very good thing. Yes, Mac made a big mistake in selecting Hackenburg in the second round. I at least give him credit for sucking it up, admitting his mistake and moving forward.

To me that's a big difference and the right way to build a team.

i don't know man, sure ywt another guy falling into maccagnan's lap is great, especially this time because we seem to have gotten our guy..

but as you mentioned, it was an historically bad pick.. period.. regardless of how or why it was..

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

i don't know man, sure ywt another guy falling into maccagnan's lap is great, especially this time because we seem to have gotten our guy..

but as you mentioned, it was an historically bad pick.. period.. regardless of how or why it was..

You're right. It's just that pre-Mac, we had too many hands in the pot and there was no one person who was accountable. It didn't help that Woody fired a different guy each year (GM one year, coach the next year and Draft Guy the next year). Now we know it's Mac and if he doesn't produce we will need a new football guy.

 

[NewMFS62]

In retrospect, the Hackenberg pick might have been the worst decision since Napoleon decided to invade Russia.
(S/M = 87)

Later

 

[jetgreen13]

You're right. It's just that pre-Mac, we had too many hands in the pot and there was no one person who was accountable. It didn't help that Woody fired a different guy each year (GM one year, coach the next year and Draft Guy the next year). Now we know it's Mac and if he doesn't produce we will need a new football guy.

good post..

your dog has good understanding of the situation..

 

[Jet Fan RI]

At least with the Hack pick it was only a waste of a second round pick. With Gholston it was a first rounder. Light years worse.

 

[Namath12]

At least with the Hack pick it was only a waste of a second round pick. With Gholston it was a first rounder. Light years worse.

Good point. I frankly don't understand the hysteria about the Hack pick. Granted, it was a poor pick, but it was a *second* round pick. Yes, he was a reach, but here is a list of just some of the Jets' *first" round picks that really were horrific: Johnny "Lam" Jones, Ron Faurot, Mike Haight, Roger Vick,Jeff Lageman, Blair Thomas, Johnny Mitchell, Anthony Becht, Bryan Thomas, Dewayne Robertson, Dustin Keller, Vernon Gholston, Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Dee Milliner, and Calvin Pryor. Those are the picks that set back the franchise. I believe that something like 40-50% of second round picks across the league become starters. It's not 90 %. Also, about half of the *first* round QB picks are busts. So I just don't get this obsession about a 2nd round pick.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

Good point. I frankly don't understand the hysteria about the Hack pick. Granted, it was a poor pick, but it was a *second* round pick. Yes, he was a reach, but here is a list of just some of the Jets' *first" round picks that really were horrific: Johnny "Lam" Jones, Ron Faurot, Mike Haight, Roger Vick,Jeff Lageman, Blair Thomas, Johnny Mitchell, Anthony Becht, Bryan Thomas, Dewayne Robertson, Dustin Keller, Vernon Gholston, Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Dee Milliner, and Calvin Pryor. Those are the picks that set back the franchise. I believe that something like 40-50% of second round picks across the league become starters. It's not 90 %. Also, about half of the *first* round QB picks are busts. So I just don't get this obsession about a 2nd round pick.

The thing is, the Jets' second rounders seem to be bad so often. So when they blow yet another second rounder, it really tends to stand out. I saw one comment a Jet fan made that, even though it was costly to bundle three second rounders to get Darnold, at least doing that would prevent yet another second rounder from being a mistake!

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

Let’s not pretend that the Jets are the only team that’s missed on first and second round picks. The draft is always a gamble. The prime example of this was Manning/Leaf. I remember all of these draft experts going back and forth over who would be the better player. Nobody said Leaf would be a bust. They were neck and neck until the draft.

But the Chargers get destroyed after the fact for the pick, and the Colts are geniuses. They put their chips down on black at the casino, and struck gold.

 

[McJet]

Good point. I frankly don't understand the hysteria about the Hack pick. Granted, it was a poor pick, but it was a *second* round pick. Yes, he was a reach, but here is a list of just some of the Jets' *first" round picks that really were horrific: Johnny "Lam" Jones, Ron Faurot, Mike Haight, Roger Vick,Jeff Lageman, Blair Thomas, Johnny Mitchell, Anthony Becht, Bryan Thomas, Dewayne Robertson, Dustin Keller, Vernon Gholston, Kyle Wilson, Quinton Coples, Dee Milliner, and Calvin Pryor. Those are the picks that set back the franchise. I believe that something like 40-50% of second round picks across the league become starters. It's not 90 %. Also, about half of the *first* round QB picks are busts. So I just don't get this obsession about a 2nd round pick.

Man, out of that list 5 are top ten picks.
With Dewayne Robertson was actually two 1st rounders (trade up)

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Gholston was a worse pick. Mangina outsmarted himself. He thought he was going to convert him to an elite edge rusher. #6 pic vs late second round pick used for Hack.
Hack will be a weight around Mac's neck until Darnold proves he belongs in the league. If Darnold busts, Mac's career is finished.

 

[beresford]

I was onboard with Gholston when the pick was made. Hackensack was an obvious waste of a pick, particularly bearing in mind Macc's obstinate refusal to do anything for the O line. In fairness Keller and Mitchell did contribute something and can't be compared to Gholston. My main memory of Vick is him fumbling the ball against Chicago when all we had to do was run out the clock.

 

[McJet]

I was onboard with Gholston when the pick was made. Hackensack was an obvious waste of a pick, particularly bearing in mind Macc's obstinate refusal to do anything for the O line. In fairness Keller and Mitchell did contribute something and can't be compared to Gholston. My main memory of Vick is him fumbling the ball against Chicago when all we had to do was run out the clock.

I think that memory is of Blair Thomas Vs the Bears in a Monday night game.

 

[NewMFS62]

I was onboard with Gholston when the pick was made. Hackensack was an obvious waste of a pick,

I was not on board with Gholston. I've have been on record here several times saying I never want to highly draft a player about whom at the first press conference, the coach says something like "We can turn him into" or "He needs work on ...".

Tony's post from above:
"Gholston was a worse pick. Mangina outsmarted himself. He thought he was going to convert him to an elite edge rusher."


A first round pick should be picked for what he can do - immediately and with a minimum of refinement.

As for a comparison of the two, Hack was a terrible mistake. Gholston was a terrible waste of DNA.
Later

 

[Innocenti]

Gholston was by far worse. Gholston was drafted #6 vs #51 where Hackenburg was drafted. QBs have a higher bust potential so it's not disastrous for a QB to bust. It's more like par for the course. Salary cap wise, Gholston was a bigger hit. We used a roster spot for him for like two seasons to avoid the cap hit.

But on the plus side, Gholston won a game for us in 2009 when he caught Chris Johnson from behind for a touchdown-saving tackle.

 

[Bruce Harper]

Gholston was by far worse. Gholston was drafted #6 vs #51 where Hackenburg was drafted. QBs have a higher bust potential so it's not disastrous for a QB to bust. It's more like par for the course. Salary cap wise, Gholston was a bigger hit. We used a roster spot for him for like two seasons to avoid the cap hit.

But on the plus side, Gholston won a game for us in 2009 when he caught Chris Johnson from behind for a touchdown-saving tackle.

I couldn't agree more. A late second round pick simply can't be compared to the number 6 pick, where you really should be able to come up with a significant contributor.

The thing that was disturbing about the Hack pick, though, was the near unanimity from nearly everybody that he was a reach there. And I am not a college football junkie but it looked even to me that his college numbers and his tape were both pretty ugly. I like to think that Mac learned from his mistake and will be cautious in drafting any QBs in the future either based on their arm and profile or their high school scouting reports -- both of which seemed to factor in here.