Could Joe Douglas' third round project safety be traded?

[gmf1369]

Davis is one of several 2020 draft picks who has not panned out after two seasons. He flashed at times but needs a lot more refinement if he wants to lock down a starting safety job in 2022. Teams could covet his versatility and physicality, though, if Douglas wants to cut bait on a former third-round pick and reset the position completely.

We have found some unique ways to build up this position even though he has been less than expected he always was that developmental player. Immense athleticism bringing the range and seemed to start coming on in the second half of the season with forced fumbles and a pair of interceptions.

Does he fit the future in this secondary is the main question? Jason Pinnock former corner converted to safety and looks like he is one key cog but is Davis the other?

 

[McJet]

Well, maybe his better play is a sign of things to come. I believe he was injured/reserve for the beginning of the season, he’s also a second year player, in the first year of Saleh’s defense. To me though, he was mostly underwhelming. Usually a step late, and those attempts of shoving a player out of bounds, instead of trying to light them up, needs to be addressed, especially when you actually never Got them out of bounds.

 

[Innocenti]

Considering that he's barely above veteran's minimum, it's not a big deal if they draft another safety and Davis gets cut during camp. You can't get a 3rd rd pick for him...probably 5th-6th rounder if that.

 

[gmf1369]

5th-6th rounder if that

we thrive we those day 3 picks, a lot of potential in those later rounds, just saying...

 

[Innocenti]

we thrive we those day 3 picks, a lot of potential in those later rounds, just saying...

Well, I was also being generous. I don't even think that we can get that much for him.

 

[Innocenti]

we thrive we those day 3 picks, a lot of potential in those later rounds, just saying...

I'll go a little further. If I were JD, I'd would be incredibly reluctant to trade anyone that we drafted in the past two seasons. So far, the past two drafts have been crappy. It's still too early to evaluate either draft. But trading draft picks is essentially closing the books on them and admitting failure without any real successes. You need at least 3 seasons to evaluate a draft. And without giving these players 3 years to develop or get supplanted by someone better, I would be admitting that I'm not conducting successful drafts and justifying that the team move on with another GM. So JD needs to keep his picks as long as possible for his own sake so that he has a win to attribute to himself.

 

[gmf1369]

Well, I was also being generous. I don't even think that we can get that much for him.

I'll go a little further. If I were JD, I'd would be incredibly reluctant to trade anyone that we drafted in the past two seasons. So far, the past two drafts have been crappy. It's still too early to evaluate either draft. But trading draft picks is essentially closing the books on them and admitting failure without any real successes. You need at least 3 seasons to evaluate a draft. And without giving these players 3 years to develop or get supplanted by someone better, I would be admitting that I'm not conducting successful drafts and justifying that the team move on with another GM. So JD needs to keep his picks as long as possible for his own sake so that he has a win to attribute to himself.

Joe Douglas might of drafted this guy but when he drafted him it was not for this coaching staff...
"IF" JD traded him won't look bad on him because maybe this player does NOT fit what the coaching staff is doing, so how can it look bad that he is taking a player which in this day is more an asset and flipping him for a draft prospect to FILL A NEED... what I am hearing there are two teams that could use his talents that would offer a 4th, another team would probably come in with a conditional pick but this would be a 2023 pick...

 

[McJet]

Who is to blame for the Jets’ struggles against the run?

Throughout the first 10 years of the New York Jets’ active 11-year playoff drought, fans could only rely on the team to be consistently good at one thing: stopping the run. From 2011-20, the Jets allowed the fewest yards per carry of any team in the NFL (3.9) while giving up the fourth-fewest...

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[skop]

I'll go a little further. If I were JD, I'd would be incredibly reluctant to trade anyone that we drafted in the past two seasons. So far, the past two drafts have been crappy. It's still too early to evaluate either draft. But trading draft picks is essentially closing the books on them and admitting failure without any real successes. You need at least 3 seasons to evaluate a draft. And without giving these players 3 years to develop or get supplanted by someone better, I would be admitting that I'm not conducting successful drafts and justifying that the team move on with another GM. So JD needs to keep his picks as long as possible for his own sake so that he has a win to attribute to himself.

i think your assessment on waiting to trade any of the 2020 picks for the reasons you stated is with warrant... Becton, Mims, and Davis can be rehabbed into viable starters or at least contributors.

having said that, should 2 of them join Hall as a viable starter (Becton will be that so it's really just one guy), then 2020 is a successful draft coupled with 2021, which was a major success, in which we got Zach, AVT, Moore, MC1, MC2, Pinnock, and Echols as starters, then the complexion of his first two drafts looks very good.

 

[Innocenti]

Joe Douglas might of drafted this guy but when he drafted him it was not for this coaching staff...
"IF" JD traded him won't look bad on him because maybe this player does NOT fit what the coaching staff is doing, so how can it look bad that he is taking a player which in this day is more an asset and flipping him for a draft prospect to FILL A NEED... what I am hearing there are two teams that could use his talents that would offer a 4th, another team would probably come in with a conditional pick but this would be a 2023 pick...

IMO, ...was for a different coaching staff doesn't make it sound any better.

There are really 2 two teams that are interested in drafting a middle round project safety that hasn't worked out?! hmmm.

 

[Tinstar]

IMO, ...was for a different coaching staff doesn't make it sound any better.

There are really 2 two teams that are interested in drafting a middle round project safety that hasn't worked out?! hmmm.

I knew this would be your answer . The sins of the old regimes are passed down regardless. The main reason for why the Jets have been a rudderless franchise for so many years is quite simply due to a lack of consistency. Every few years the coaching staff changes and so do the schemes. . The old players no longer fit and viola, the cycle begins anew .
Groundhog Day for 50 frigging years .

 

[Innocenti]

I knew this would be your answer . The sins of the old regimes are passed down regardless. The main reason for why the Jets have been a rudderless franchise for so many years is quite simply due to a lack of consistency. Every few years the coaching staff changes and so do the schemes. . The old players no longer fit and viola, the cycle begins anew .
Groundhog Day for 50 frigging years .

But it wasn't the old regime. It's the current one. Also, your argument doesn't translate to safeties (if at all) as well as it does to the front 7.

The other part wasn't really an argument. I was just surprised that Gaetano is hearing that there are two teams interested in our project safety.

And quite frankly, I don't understand why anyone should have a problem with letting Davis compete in camp rather than cutting ties for a day 3 pick. And I also think that trying to translate training camp competition to fifty years of futility is completely far fetched. But hey, you got a trophy for saying it so it must be correct.

 

[gmf1369]

so lets take a look at the safety position:

Marcus Maye we can all agree should not be back, but coming off an injury he could be an affordable option on a one year deal, maybe?

LaMarcus Joyner last year signed a one year deal and got injured but could they try again on another one year deal?

At the backend of the season our CB Jason Pinnock, draft pick converted to Safety and he seemed to fill in and thrive with his new role, is he a role player or possible developmental starter?

Jets signed Elijah Riley off the Eagles practice squad, albeit he was more a role player does he have the upside to start?

Zane Lewis out of Air Force was brought in because of his connection with our defensive backs coach, was on IR last season, where does he fit in? Just another body for the practice squad?

Kai Nacua signed last season to a two year deal familiar with Saleh's defense could be an intricate role player?

Acquired Jovante Moffatt near the end of the season, another developmental prospect who has upside....

Then there is Ashtyn Davis who is the questionable player? He is athletic but raw, shows some football acumen but always seems to allow the big play... Good pursuit but lacks the physicality to lower the shoulder always goes for the strip rather than the takedown...

Now most Jets fans hoping to sign one, maybe two Safety free agents -- okay????

So, How many stick? 2, 3, 4 or all 8?
Do we draft someone like Jalen Pitre?
Does Hamsah Nasirildeen revert back from LB to SAF?
Does Isaiah Dunn or Rachad Wildgoose also make the transition to SAF?
With MC2 the starting nickel, could Javelin Guidry make the transition to SAF?

How many is too many?

 

[Tinstar]

But it wasn't the old regime. It's the current one. Also, your argument doesn't translate to safeties (if at all) as well as it does to the front 7.

The other part wasn't really an argument. I was just surprised that Gaetano is hearing that there are two teams interested in our project safety.

And quite frankly, I don't understand why anyone should have a problem with letting Davis compete in camp rather than cutting ties for a day 3 pick. And I also think that trying to translate training camp competition to fifty years of futility is completely far fetched. But hey, you got a trophy for saying it so it must be correct.

I tend to agree with you about Davis getting the chance to complete in camp . Only if someone is offering me a draft pick for a player who’s a long shot to make the roster, I would have to entertain the offer .

 

[gmf1369]

looking at the safety position for 2022, this is my take

Kai Nauca is not just a training camp invite they signed him to a two year deal for a reason...
Jason Pinnock will get a full off season to develop into either a role or starter for next season...
Elijah Riley plays special teams and is a good sub package contributor should make the active roster...

Leaves the question 4 or 5 safeties on the active roster next year?

I think Zane Lewis is on the practice squad...
I think Jovante Moffatt is also on the practice squad...

So with three on the active roster, do they re-sign either veteran Marcus Maye or LaMarcus Joyner or both? One is four and both makes five...

Then the debate comes in where does Ashtyn Davis fall into the rotation...
But hearing the Jets like two safeties in this draft... Technically three but the third one they like as linebacker...
A player like Jalen Pitre a second round selection will come in and automatically get a nod to start, no? So who is then out?

The two draft options the team likes is Baylor Jalen Pitre (2nd) & Cincinnati Bryan Cook (3rd - 4th)...

 

[Gramoah]

looking at the safety position for 2022, this is my take

Kai Nauca is not just a training camp invite they signed him to a two year deal for a reason...
Jason Pinnock will get a full off season to develop into either a role or starter for next season...
Elijah Riley plays special teams and is a good sub package contributor should make the active roster...

Leaves the question 4 or 5 safeties on the active roster next year?

I think Zane Lewis is on the practice squad...
I think Jovante Moffatt is also on the practice squad...

So with three on the active roster, do they re-sign either veteran Marcus Maye or LaMarcus Joyner or both? One is four and both makes five...

Then the debate comes in where does Ashtyn Davis fall into the rotation...
But hearing the Jets like two safeties in this draft... Technically three but the third one they like as linebacker...
A player like Jalen Pitre a second round selection will come in and automatically get a nod to start, no? So who is then out?

The two draft options the team likes is Baylor Jalen Pitre (2nd) & Cincinnati Bryan Cook (3rd - 4th)...

Personally I think Davis may fall by the wayside. While he is athletic his contributions are spotty. Just my gut feeling.

 

[gmf1369]

Personally I think Davis may fall by the wayside. While he is athletic his contributions are spotty. Just my gut feeling.

at the end of the day this is just a suggestion/discussion I just don't feel with all the extra playing time he made a case to stick moving forward and with all the potential we have under contract albeit some ERFAs and possible re-signings that can take place not to mention any free agent signings there is not enough space in this position group to keep more than 6 being some players play as a tweener role S/LB while some are special teams players, this roster has potential every where and some players no matter where they were drafted are expendable with this new coaching staff that did not draft them...

does not matter that they were drafted by Joe Douglas the year prior...

but if you listened to Fan/HC conference call the way he talked freely about Becton and what he means to this OL and team you will understand the reasoning on some of the topics I posted...

Saleh wants to improve the trenches but believes that Becton with AVT are keys together while our front 4 need to be fixed and rightfully so we have some players free agents that are NOT likely to return because of the F.I.T. that is required in this style that this coaching staff is looking for...

 

[Gramoah]

at the end of the day this is just a suggestion/discussion I just don't feel with all the extra playing time he made a case to stick moving forward and with all the potential we have under contract albeit some ERFAs and possible re-signings that can take place not to mention any free agent signings there is not enough space in this position group to keep more than 6 being some players play as a tweener role S/LB while some are special teams players, this roster has potential every where and some players no matter where they were drafted are expendable with this new coaching staff that did not draft them...

does not matter that they were drafted by Joe Douglas the year prior...

but if you listened to Fan/HC conference call the way he talked freely about Becton and what he means to this OL and team you will understand the reasoning on some of the topics I posted...

Saleh wants to improve the trenches but believes that Becton with AVT are keys together while our front 4 need to be fixed and rightfully so we have some players free agents that are NOT likely to return because of the F.I.T. that is required in this style that this coaching staff is looking for...

I agree. Sometimes guys tend to forget that JD's first draft was to fit a completely different system and coaching philosophy.

 

[gmf1369]

I agree. Sometimes guys tend to forget that JD's first draft was to fit a completely different system and coaching philosophy.

actually he filled a need then went on a potential draft after the first pick... taking players that could become something, raw athletes that have upside; ala Denzel Mims, Ashtyn Davis, Jabari Zuniga, LaMical Perine, James Morgan, Cameron Clark, Bryce Hall and Braden Mann...

not every pick had to be a success but hopeful that the first pick turns it around and cements himself as a key cog on the OL... Bryce Hall has been the best surprise from this draft in 2020 by far... Zuniga during covid season got called up more times then the average player that is only allowed two times because of covid related scenarios he was on the short list as a active day sub...

Cameron Clark unfortunate but necessary decision life over football... Braden Mann curious, best college punter has not really worked out as much... James Morgan chose his fate... Perine is the curious situation even though he is a power back he has wheels but that does not matter if the O.C. does not like his skill set to the game plan...

then there is Davis has so much agility but at this level can not survive with that alone...

 

[Gramoah]

actually he filled a need then went on a potential draft after the first pick... taking players that could become something, raw athletes that have upside; ala Denzel Mims, Ashtyn Davis, Jabari Zuniga, LaMical Perine, James Morgan, Cameron Clark, Bryce Hall and Braden Mann...

not every pick had to be a success but hopeful that the first pick turns it around and cements himself as a key cog on the OL... Bryce Hall has been the best surprise from this draft in 2020 by far... Zuniga during covid season got called up more times then the average player that is only allowed two times because of covid related scenarios he was on the short list as a active day sub...

Cameron Clark unfortunate but necessary decision life over football... Braden Mann curious, best college punter has not really worked out as much... James Morgan chose his fate... Perine is the curious situation even though he is a power back he has wheels but that does not matter if the O.C. does not like his skill set to the game plan...

then there is Davis has so much agility but at this level can not survive with that alone...

When I think about it, Perine just didn't wow me and frankly neither did Zuniga. Maybe I'm being a little bit hard on them but I had high expectations of both of them and they simply have not been, when they've had opportunities, consistently impressive and certainly not game changers.