This is the season we find out re: Geno

[sg3]

Agreed. Some of us realize that when you throw an unprepared raw qb into the fire with little to no weapons, these are kind of results you can expect. Some folks don't believe in context; regardless of how one feels about Geno, THE BEST CASE SCENARIO is that he take that next step in his development. I mean don't we WANT our recent 2nd round pick to justify his draft position? Hasn't it been said it takes 3 YEARS to judge a player? Especially one with who was so raw coming out of college.

Many discount any positive effect Gailey will have; or the addition of bonafide play makers including a true # 1 receiver (for the first time in his career); or just by having played 2 full years in the NFL which included a very humiliating benching. (I think he handled it very well; how someone handles adversity says a lot about their character. He definitely played better; there can't be any dispute about that.)

We some how went 8 -8 with him as a raw rookie but some folks feel it will be armegeddon if he wins the job this season. The key word there is WIN. No one is going to be handed the job and that includes Fitzgerald. It will be won on the field.

All the internet posturing in the world is not going to change that.

I don't think Fitzgerald has any chance. Even Geno despite being, arguably, the worst two year starting QB ever is vastly better than Fitzgerald and Fitzmorris and probably Fitzsimmons too.

Fortunately we have Ryan Fitzpatrick who is miles better than all four of those

 

[jets82]

Agreed. Some of us realize that when you throw an unprepared raw qb into the fire with little to no weapons, these are kind of results you can expect. Some folks don't believe in context; regardless of how one feels about Geno, THE BEST CASE SCENARIO is that he take that next step in his development. I mean don't we WANT our recent 2nd round pick to justify his draft position? Hasn't it been said it takes 3 YEARS to judge a player? Especially one with who was so raw coming out of college.

Many discount any positive effect Gailey will have; or the addition of bonafide play makers including a true # 1 receiver (for the first time in his career); or just by having played 2 full years in the NFL which included a very humiliating benching. (I think he handled it very well; how someone handles adversity says a lot about their character. He definitely played better; there can't be any dispute about that.)

We some how went 8 -8 with him as a raw rookie but some folks feel it will be armegeddon if he wins the job this season. The key word there is WIN. No one is going to be handed the job and that includes Fitzpatrick. It will be won on the field.

All the internet posturing in the world is not going to change that.

You are correct my friend. Some people hate to hear it but the QB competition will be won on the field and the JETS HC, OC and QB coach will be choosing who will play, NOT ANY OF US! So all this garbage ass talk between us is irrelevant. Seems to me like some people just like to stir the pot no matter what. Even if they know they are wrong, they will do it anyway just to get a rise out of people. Childess and stupid if you ask me. Anyway, I'm rooting for our Jets to win with any QB that can help us do that. I'm just smart enough to realize that Geno can be a better QB with better talent around him and he did actually get better from year one to year two. Whomever wants to argue that, let them. The proof is in the stats and thats all that matters to me.

 

[Bigmoe]

What skews the view on Geno is..when he is good he is decent...when he is bad he is AWFUL

No, and you know I disagree

There is no skewing the view on Geno
When he is decent ........very Rare , far and between
When he is awful , let's say 89.9% of the time
Being generous the 10.1 % as decent
That's the reality of the view
It's not hate , it's not racist , it's not skewed
It's football observation
And that comes from 45 years of it

 

[McJet]

His record as a starting NFL for two.seasons Is

11-20.

With the lowest rating as a QB in both

The textbook definition of really bad


Type inJamarcus Russell, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Tim Couch, Browning Nagle and Ryan Leaf highlights on Youtube. You'll find similar "nice scrambling plays, screen passes, underneath throws and, yes, a few beautiful passes down the field in some games"

And a similar garbage record and rating

He's actually 11-18 in games HE started. Last year Vick started and lost against the Chiefs and the 2nd Bills game.

 

[Old#15]

I'd be curious about who were the surrounding skill players in the games won vs games lost, for nothing more than context on his record.

 

[Mainejet]

You specifically said that outside of a "meaningless game against Miami" that Geno hasn't showed anything.

I was just showing you that you're incorrect in that assertion.

So when you infer that Geno HAS shown flashes of brilliance, you're using ONE game as your ammunition? One measly game in two seasons? Do you often operate on such thin lines? Do you enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing?

If that's the case then you win. Geno is f*cking awesome and he's going to make Brady his b*tch twice this season. Definitely the second coming of Joe Montana.

 

[Fudbutter]

Some slightly meaningful stats ...

Some slightly meaningful stats ...

Football stats are often meaningless but since some folks believe that Geno is so bad that he'll be cut before the season, I thought I'd look at some comparative stats of interest. What you are looking at from left to right is the QB rating in the player's first year, second year, unweighted average for the two and rating for their third year. Fitzpatrick didn't play in years two or three so I used the next two years that he got on the field. Sorry, but I couldn't figure how to format this to be more readable. Results are shown ranked by the two year average.

O'Brien 74.0 96.2 85.1 85.8
Unitas 74.0 88.0 81.0 90.0
P.Manning 71.2 90.7 81.0 94.7
Manuel 77.7 80.3 79.0 ?
Tannehill 76.1 81.7 78.9 92.8
Smith 66.5 77.5 72.0 ?
Sanchez 63.0 75.3 69.2 78.2
Namath 68.7 62.6 65.7 73.8
E.Manning 55.4 75.9 65.7 77.0
Fitzpatrick 58.2 70.0 64.1 69.7
Todd 33.2 60.3 46.8 61.6
Bradshaw 30.4 59.7 45.1 64.1
AVERAGE 53.5 65.6 59.5 65.6

Of course, the chart does not show how effective the player in question's pass protection was or if his WRs were hurt so he couldn't practice with them, but as is, most of this was not surprising. For example, those of you around for Namath's first two years remember the turnovers and horribly unadvised throws. Those of you who suffered through early Todd remember that he turned out not so bad after all for a while. If the internet was around then, the vilification of both these players would have made some of these Geno comments sound like love notes.

So what conclusions can one make from this? I'm not sure what you'd say, but mine are three:

1. Smith was better than some, not as good as others for the first two years. I'm rooting for that to be a situational result and that he will somehow pick it up and reach a much higher level that one should expect that Fitzpatrick cannot reach
2. I always forget that Ken O'Brien could actually throw
3. I have way too much time on my hand and should spend it on more productive pursuits

 

[LIJETFAN]

The Geno debate has been going on now for two years. The fact is that this is the year that we find out what kind of QB he will be. There are a lot of reasons why he has not performed well up and to this point. And maybe he never will. But he doesn't really have any excuses this year. Talented receivers, check. Offensive coordinator that knows how to work with a QB coming out of the spread system in college, check. Improved offensive line, check. Reps as a pro in a pro system, check. Game experience and experience reading defenses, check. So he either he will make the jump this year, or he never will. His physical skills are not the issue. He has all the tools. He just needs to figure it out. If he doesn't then he is probably a career backup.

 

[jets82]

Football stats are often meaningless but since some folks believe that Geno is so bad that he'll be cut before the season, I thought I'd look at some comparative stats of interest. What you are looking at from left to right is the QB rating in the player's first year, second year, unweighted average for the two and rating for their third year. Fitzpatrick didn't play in years two or three so I used the next two years that he got on the field. Sorry, but I couldn't figure how to format this to be more readable. Results are shown ranked by the two year average.

O'Brien 74.0 96.2 85.1 85.8
Unitas 74.0 88.0 81.0 90.0
P.Manning 71.2 90.7 81.0 94.7
Manuel 77.7 80.3 79.0 ?
Tannehill 76.1 81.7 78.9 92.8
Smith 66.5 77.5 72.0 ?
Sanchez 63.0 75.3 69.2 78.2
Namath 68.7 62.6 65.7 73.8
E.Manning 55.4 75.9 65.7 77.0
Fitzpatrick 58.2 70.0 64.1 69.7
Todd 33.2 60.3 46.8 61.6
Bradshaw 30.4 59.7 45.1 64.1
AVERAGE 53.5 65.6 59.5 65.6

Of course, the chart does not show how effective the player in question's pass protection was or if his WRs were hurt so he couldn't practice with them, but as is, most of this was not surprising. For example, those of you around for Namath's first two years remember the turnovers and horribly unadvised throws. Those of you who suffered through early Todd remember that he turned out not so bad after all for a while. If the internet was around then, the vilification of both these players would have made some of these Geno comments sound like love notes.

So what conclusions can one make from this? I'm not sure what you'd say, but mine are three:

1. Smith was better than some, not as good as others for the first two years. I'm rooting for that to be a situational result and that he will somehow pick it up and reach a much higher level that one should expect that Fitzpatrick cannot reach
2. I always forget that Ken O'Brien could actually throw
3. I have way too much time on my hand and should spend it on more productive pursuits

Wow, great research job and stat analysis. Problem is you waisted your time doing it. Geno bashers will continue to be so, no matter what you show them. You can shoot the injection of stats directly in their brain and they still will fight it and feel the way they feel. For what ever reasons, the haters will still be the haters and until Geno actually proves them wrong, they will still be the haters. Wait, actually Geno can actually lead this team to a SB and win it and there will still be some haters. Probably the very same people. So if that won't work, you gotta know what you doing surely won't.

 

[ucrenegade]

those stats are good but are skewed to the type of nfl each QB played in.

50-60's was a run dominant league
70's-taglibue's retirement- was a more balanced passing and running but you could actually hit the wr and jam them same with qb's you could sack them.
goodell era- now- pussy league can't touch tammy brady or offend daddy kraft so all rules changed.

 

[jets82]

The Geno debate has been going on now for two years. The fact is that this is the year that we find out what kind of QB he will be. There are a lot of reasons why he has not performed well up and to this point. And maybe he never will. But he doesn't really have any excuses this year. Talented receivers, check. Offensive coordinator that knows how to work with a QB coming out of the spread system in college, check. Improved offensive line, check. Reps as a pro in a pro system, check. Game experience and experience reading defenses, check. So he either he will make the jump this year, or he never will. His physical skills are not the issue. He has all the tools. He just needs to figure it out. If he doesn't then he is probably a career backup.

+1

 

[Bigmoe]

Geno can actually lead this team to a SB and win it and there will still be some haters. .

I doubt it
I for one said this before, if Geno leads this team to a SB,
pigs will fly outta my ass
I'll be happier than a pig in shit
And I'll eat that shit and bark at the moon
And you win

And that enough of this Geno garbage
LGR for the next month

 

[Savage69]

those stats are good but are skewed to the type of nfl each QB played in.

50-60's was a run dominant league
70's-taglibue's retirement- was a more balanced passing and running but you could actually hit the wr and jam them same with qb's you could sack them.
goodell era- now- pussy league can't touch tammy brady or offend daddy kraft so all rules changed.

The AFL was a wide open bomb throwing league that's why I became a NY Titan fan and that started in 1960.In 1967 Namath had 491 pass attempts and that was in a 14 game season.. The Oakland QB Lamonica was called the Mad Bomber.. And that was before all the rule changes helping the offense in the passing game..

 

[jets82]

I doubt it
I for one said this before, if Geno leads this team to a SB,
pigs will fly outta my ass
I'll be happier than a pig in shit
And I'll eat that shit and bark at the moon
And you win

And that enough of this Geno garbage
LGR for the next month

Your one of the exceptions then I guess.

 

[ucrenegade]

The AFL was a wide open bomb throwing league that's why I became a NY Titan fan and that started in 1960.In 1967 Namath had 491 pass attempts and that was in a 14 game season.. The Oakland QB Lamonica was called the Mad Bomber.. And that was before all the rule changes helping the offense in the passing game..

yeah but NFL was more conservative it seemed obv i never watched any of the games just seen highlights and stuff. So I would def defer to you on this.

 

[OCCH]

Wow, great research job and stat analysis. Problem is you waisted your time doing it. Geno bashers will continue to be so, no matter what you show them. You can shoot the injection of stats directly in their brain and they still will fight it and feel the way they feel. For what ever reasons, the haters will still be the haters and until Geno actually proves them wrong, they will still be the haters. Wait, actually Geno can actually lead this team to a SB and win it and there will still be some haters. Probably the very same people. So if that won't work, you gotta know what you doing surely won't.

So you're on the record saying you believe Geno is our future at QB, right? I mean, you've got the stats to back it up, and anyone who disagrees is obviously a hater, so I guess that means you're comfortable with him being behind center for the next decade, right?

Or are Geno-apologists the only ones who are allowed to hedge their bets? It's OK if they're wrong, because at least they were "rooting for the team". But anyone who thinks the best thing for this team is to move on from a failed experiment is just needlessly bashing the kid, right?

Well, I hope you're right. I'll openly admit I don't think you are, but I guess I just have to question if I'm a real fan in the first place . . .

 

[jets82]

So you're on the record saying you believe Geno is our future at QB, right? I mean, you've got the stats to back it up, and anyone who disagrees is obviously a hater, so I guess that means you're comfortable with him being behind center for the next decade, right?

Or are Geno-apologists the only ones who are allowed to hedge their bets? It's OK if they're wrong, because at least they were "rooting for the team". But anyone who thinks the best thing for this team is to move on from a failed experiment is just needlessly bashing the kid, right?

Well, I hope you're right. I'll openly admit I don't think you are, but I guess I just have to question if I'm a real fan in the first place . . .

No, I'm not saying Geno is our future QB. What I'm saying is he has an opportunity to show us he can be this season with this roster. If he can't get it done this year then he can't get it done period. I wonder if all the Geno haters were as hard on Sanchez his first two years? I mean his stats those first two years were arguably worse then Geno's and he was on significantly better teams. I mean AFC championship teams. I'm a Jets fans first and foremost and I want the best QB for our team. I'm not going to just be set in a opinion just because the mood takes me that way.

Geno has had two years of NFL experience where as, he came into the league as raw of a project as can be. He played with horrible teams and for even worse coaching and management. So is it safe to say he had all kinds of excuses, explanations, reasonable reasons or factors as to why he struggled so much years one and two? If so, he doesn't anymore. He has to prove it now or he will be gone. Petty will be learning and waiting to take over in a year or two so this is Geno's last chance as a Jet. So we'll see if all those reasons, factors, excuses were just that or was/is he just garbage period.

Seems to me the Geno supporters are willing to give him a chance but aren't delusional to anything with this. If Geno steps up then great and if he flops then oh well. But were not going to just throw him away when we all know his circumstances here were miserable and would have been for any QB their first and second year here. If Geno isn't the QB then so be it but DAMN, if we can give that piece of sh*t Sanchez 5 years of support here with better teams, why can't we give Geno one more year of support with a real team and coaching and management this year.

I could understand if the Jets traded for Breez or Rivers. Even trading for Foles, I could understand people being so ready to get rid of Geno. I could understand if they some how drafted Winston or even Mariota (with such a high pick or trading up to get him). I personally would have been reluctant on trashing Geno so quickly for Mariota but thats just me. We are talking about a 10-plus year vet QB who just last year, had a pretty decent year for Houston but they didn't want to keep him and traded him for just a 7th rounder (if I'm correct). A rookie that was drafted in the 4th round and a career back-up in Simms. Don't say Simms is better then that because if he was, he would have taken the job from Geno already. He couldn't even get on the field last year. So what are we talking about here, a bunch of unknowns and a vet that no one wants to hold on to, no matter how he plays. So why are we so ready to dump Geno, I just don't get it.

 

[sg3]

Wow, great research job and stat analysis. Problem is you waisted your time doing it. Geno bashers will continue to be so, no matter what you show them. You can shoot the injection of stats directly in their brain and they still will fight it and feel the way they feel. For what ever reasons, the haters will still be the haters and until Geno actually proves them wrong, they will still be the haters. Wait, actually Geno can actually lead this team to a SB and win it and there will still be some haters. Probably the very same people. So if that won't work, you gotta know what you doing surely won't.

So you keep posting that we should allow the competition to determine the winner but in almost every post you also state your love and faith for Geno and then launch into namecalling, insults and racial prejudice inferences about any and every Jet fan who has a different opinion

Just come out and say you think Smith is your guy and be honest about it for a change

 

[jets82]

So you keep posting that we should allow the competition to determine the winner but in almost every post you also state your love and faith for Geno and then launch into namecalling, insults and racial prejudice inferences about any and every Jet fan who has a different opinion

Just come out and say you think Smith is your guy and be honest about it for a change

Whatever! Think what you want because I could care less what you think of my opinion and I'm sure you could care less what I think about yours.

 

[jets82]

Seems to me the Geno supporters are willing to give him a chance but aren't delusional to anything with this. If Geno steps up then great and if he flops then oh well. But were not going to just throw him away when we all know his circumstances here were miserable and would have been for any QB their first and second year here. If Geno isn't the QB then so be it but DAMN, if we can give that piece of sh*t Sanchez 5 years of support here with better teams, why can't we give Geno one more year of support with a real team and coaching and management this year.

I could understand if the Jets traded for Breez or Rivers. Even trading for Foles, I could understand people being so ready to get rid of Geno. I could understand if they some how drafted Winston or even Mariota (with such a high pick or trading up to get him). I personally would have been reluctant on trashing Geno so quickly for Mariota but thats just me. We are talking about a 10-plus year vet QB who just last year, had a pretty decent year for Houston but they didn't want to keep him and traded him for just a 7th rounder (if I'm correct). A rookie that was drafted in the 4th round and a career back-up in Simms. Don't say Simms is better then that because if he was, he would have taken the job from Geno already. He couldn't even get on the field last year. So what are we talking about here, a bunch of unknowns and a vet that no one wants to hold on to, no matter how he plays. So why are we so ready to dump Geno, I just don't get it.