Jets OTA's & Mini Camp News and Notes

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sg3

Guest
I'm not making excuses for Geno Smith's play. I've acknowledged that he's sucked on his own. But he's also a young QB that was thrown into an NFL offense after playing a spread offense at West Virginia. Why don't we just throw Bryce Petty in as a starter while we're at it? That'll go really well, won't it?

It's not an excuse. It's a fact. Geno Smith wasn't ready to take the reins of a starting position when he was given it. He's been battle tested for two years. He's taken his lumps. Now he has year three to prove himself. I don't see anything crazy about that.
I'm not suggesting throwing Petty in now and I'm certainly way beyond making excuses for Geno Smith whose shelf life has expired IMO

That is why I am thrilled that Maccagnan quickly traded cheaply for Ryan Fitzpatrick, the veteran hold the fort, manage the game, don't kill drives with stupid turnovers guy the Jets have needed since Brett Favre left

Instead we handed the job to Sanchez and Smith, two of the worst drive killing turnover machines in NFL History.

Fitzpatrick holds the fort while either Petty develops for 2016 or 17 or we find a young franchise guy in a future draft

I don't think we actually disagree much if at all on this
 

hobson54

Transition Tagged
Jet Fanatics
No, the easy argument would be Rex's defense has been top 10 for the last 5 years while Arizona was 24th last year...Rex's defense has never been as low as 24...so when it comes to defensive masterminds, Bowles doesn't even belong in the conversation with Rex...Like Rex is Peyton Manning of defenses and Bowles is Jeff Garcia...rex is the one with the rings and Bowles is the one who has been fired from the position before while rex is considered one of the greatest to ever do it...

The argument was never about who would be a better HC and big picture guy...it was who was a better Xs and Os guy as it applies to defense...Bowles doesnt belong in the conversation with Rex. That doesnt mean Rex isnt Norv Turner...he may be.


i think rex is a very good defensive coach, so i'm not looking to bury him. but i think you are off target when calling bowles the "jeff garcia" of defensive coaches in the league. he was named the league's top assistant coach last year, which is hardly "jeff garcia" territory.

and while you cite total defense stats from last year, that can be misleading. yes, by total defense (measures yards let up), the jets ranked 6th and the cardinals ranked 24th. but by the more important points allowed, the jets allowed 25.1 ppg (24th in the league), the cardinals allowed 18.7 ppg (5th). now granted some points were allowed by the offense and special teams, so looking at the passing and rushing defenses, the jets pass defense allowed 31 TDs (3rd worst in the league), the cardinals allowed 22 pass TDs (tied for 6th best). the jets allowed 10 rushing TDs, the cardinals allowed 9 rush TDs.

so yeah, by "total defense" the jets had the higher ranked defense last year. i'd take the defense that let up 10 less TDs - led by assistant coach of the year todd bowles.
 
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sg3

Guest
i think rex is a very good defensive coach, so i'm not looking to bury him. but i think you are off target when calling bowles the "jeff garcia" of defensive coaches in the league. he was named the league's top assistant coach last year, which is hardly "jeff garcia" territory.

and while you cite total defense stats from last year, that can be misleading. yes, by total defense (measures yards let up), the jets ranked 6th and the cardinals ranked 24th. but by the more important points allowed, the jets allowed 25.1 ppg (24th in the league), the cardinals allowed 18.7 ppg (5th). now granted some points were allowed by the offense and special teams, so looking at the passing and rushing defenses, the jets pass defense allowed 31 TDs (3rd worst in the league), the cardinals allowed 22 pass TDs (tied for 6th best). the jets allowed 10 rushing TDs, the cardinals allowed 9 rush TDs.

so yeah, by "total defense" the jets had the higher ranked defense last year. i'd take the defense that let up 10 less TDs - led by assistant coach of the year todd bowles.
Thanks Hobson for getting us past the usual skewed cherry picked statz
 
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ucrenegade

Guest
the simple fact is geno is going to get a chance and he should with gailey. You also have to consider as loing as geno is not making any real money yet it would be stupid to get rid of him. Right now if we tried getting rid of him we could get absolutely nothing for him. Why not go into this season with fitz,geno,petty,and stash heaps on the practice squad.

year 2 you again draft a qb next year you have fitz and petty if he is ready battle it out promoting heaps to 3rd string and the new qb pushes geno out and we either release him or maybe he develops some trade value

year 3 either petty is ready or not heaps or the new qb pushes fitz out and then we either sign a fa back-up to petty and heaps

any way that is my plan lol

I see no way we can get rid of geno this year so it is all moot, but next year unless he dramatically improves i would be shocked if he is still on the team.
 

Superman55

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
Thanks Hobson for getting us past the usual skewed cherry picked statz

Hahahahaha, because you don't realize he cherry picked the opposite direction? Anyone who understand stats knows you can always use them to make your point for either side of an argument. Silly rabbit.
 

mydogisajetsfan

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
It's not even June and I'm already tired of reading the usual Rex vs. Bowles or Geno vs. Fitz 'discussions'. Here's a change of pace...

I'm concerned about the offensive line. I'm not a big fan of the Carpenter signing but hope he can at least be an improvement over Winters and Aboushi. Giocomini could be one of Idzik's worst moves (and that's saying a lot!). He stinks and is uncuttable for at least another season. Right guard is a crap shoot and I'm not comforted by the long list of possibilities. Here's hoping Dozier can step up and solidify the right side of the line. Otherwise, it could be a long season against the Bills and Phins Dlines.
 

hobson54

Transition Tagged
Jet Fanatics
Hahahahaha, because you don't realize he cherry picked the opposite direction? Anyone who understand stats knows you can always use them to make your point for either side of an argument. Silly rabbit.

so do you think allowing less yards is better than allowing 10 less TDs by the defense (excludes ST and TDs allowed by offense)?
 

Superman55

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
so do you think allowing less yards is better than allowing 10 less TDs by the defense (excludes ST and TDs allowed by offense)?

It's a statistic that could only be determined by the quality of the offenses. How much time was one defense in the field than others? Were we amongst the league leaders in 3 and outs setting up more short fields for scoring? You have to dig more into scoring statistics stats
 
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sg3

Guest
Hahahahaha, because you don't realize he cherry picked the opposite direction? Anyone who understand stats knows you can always use them to make your point for either side of an argument. Silly rabbit.
You are really obsessed
 

johnnysd

5th Year Team Option
Jet Fanatics
It's a statistic that could only be determined by the quality of the offenses. How much time was one defense in the field than others? Were we amongst the league leaders in 3 and outs setting up more short fields for scoring? You have to dig more into scoring statistics stats

Not cherry picking statistics, but Rex's defenses over the last couple of years have been:

1. Bad in the red zone (26th in 2014)
2. Bad on third down, especially third and long (30th in 2014)
3. One of the highest points per play against (30th in 2014
4 Terrible at forcing turnovers (last)

Seems to me these are the most important stats for a defense and we were terrible and not much better the years before.

How can you still defend the defense? The ONLY stat they were decent at was yards against and even that was helped by us not being competitive and teams trying to just grind down the clock.
 
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JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Good post, JSD ... I was going to say that perhaps the fact that we never scored any points on offense could affect these defensive numbers. Opposing offenses needed to score fewer points on average to win the game, so of course they would be more inclined to go into "conservative" mode earlier. All the things you mentioned are the real measures of a defense, and none of them look great.

Now, I always thought that this kinda had an effect on the defense, too, in that they were always on the field, so the other team had more opportunities to score and wear down the defense. I guess the real point is, again, that football stats are tough to rely on when making player and coach evaluations, because everything is so interconnected. It is a sport that relies a lot more on what we see than what the numbers say. There are too few games to really allow a large enough sample size for the stats to mean a lot, IMO, and the range of potential outcomes is too narrow (i.e. most QB days will fall in between 1-3 TDs, most CBs will have a certain range of INTs, etc) and while it makes it easy to see that Peyton Manning is really better than Mark Sanchez, it doesn't help make those judgments between players who are more equal.

The whole discussion makes me feel like if we can't even agree what the numbers mean, then what is the point of talking about them? Obviously statistical arguments are proving to be unconvincing to everyone here, because it is too easy to construct them for any position you can imagine.
 
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sg3

Guest
Who hijacked the OTAs thread into a collection of warped statistics for or against the last Jet HC with yet another losing record?
 

soj

retired Veteran
Jet Fanatics
Yeah, holding Brady to under 50% comp isn't hard, you're right, means nothing...he isn't a defensive genius...despite being the only person in the NFL to do that last year..maybe ever...and he did it with UDFAS at cb.. and kyle wilson...nUff said. The lack of respect on this board is scary sometimes.

Try answering the question which of course you didn't did you. Your really a piece of work and as stated on scout board your boorish at times.
 

Football51

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
CGg-AlRUYAEBY1v.jpg:small
 

Superman55

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
TE Amaro suffers apparent back injury at practice today

TE Amaro suffers apparent back injury at practice today

Rich Cimini @RichCimini
Jets practice over: Most noteworthy development is TE Jace Amaro, who left with a back injury. #nyj

Seth Walder ✔ @SethWalderNYDN
Bowles said he isn't sure on Amaro. Didn't know anything else besides him being sore.

Dennis Waszak Jr. ✔ @DWAZ73
Bowles says he doesn't know much just yet about Jace Amaro, who left practice with back issue. Says he's "a little sore." #Jets
 

Football51

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
FcjnNTj5_bigger.jpeg
Kimberley A. Martin@KMart_LI 3h3 hours ago

Bowles said he doesn't have much info on Jace's back. All he know is the TE was sore




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Kimberley A. Martin@KMart_LI 3h3 hours ago

Bowles said he heard Willie's comments re: Geno -- "something about keys to the Porsche?" #jets



FcjnNTj5_bigger.jpeg
Kimberley A. Martin@KMart_LI 3h3 hours ago

Bowles: "I don't know what kind of car we have. We're still building it." #porsche #jets




FcjnNTj5_bigger.jpeg
Kimberley A. Martin@KMart_LI 3h3 hours ago

Bowles said he doesn't see "anything wrong" with what Willie said re: Geno yesterday #jets

 
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