Mac's Facts

[NickSINYC]

Like I already replied to Mydog, please point out where the insults and name calling is happening here. There isn't any?

But please tell me why is mentioning politics in passing such a mortal sin on this site? Iused it because I felt it was a useful analogy in making my point. I could choose to tell you you how I really feel about the last president, but I'm not doing that here?

JMHO I try to stay out of the BS but I think calling a thread deplorable and disingenuous then calling out the posters is an indirect way of insulting the posters and does not excuse you just because of some slight of hand that in your mind keeps you on an imaginary high horse.

 

[Mainejet]

JMHO I try to stay out of the BS but I think calling a thread deplorable and disingenuous then calling out the posters is an indirect way of insulting the posters and does not excuse you just because of some slight of hand that in your mind keeps you on an imaginary high horse.

3 employees from CNN were just forced to resign for reporting fake news. They never bothered to check their sources and whether they were legitimate. When you report something as FACT, I guess I must be an idiot for thinking there might be some actual FACTS to back up the thread. Go figure.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

Please point out to me anywhere in this thread where I called you names and I will apologize. But I do think the thread title is disingenuous. The title indicates factual things are discussed within the thread. There was nothing factual, only your opinion.

I meant the names your call Bowles, not me.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

We ALL post opinions here! That'sEXACTLY what we do here! That's exactly what we're supposed to be doing here!

 

[Mainejet]

We ALL post opinions here! That'sEXACTLY what we do here! That's exactly what we're supposed to be doing here!

OK. If that's what you're saying then fine? The thread is just mistitled.

 

[Mainejet]

I meant the names your call Bowles, not me.

Well apparently you must be one of the few that still considers him to be a HC? I can't help the names for Toilet, he's thoroughly incompetent imo.

 

[McJet]

Well apparently you must be one of the few that still considers him to be a HC? I can't help the names for Toilet, he's thoroughly incompetent imo.

Well, if we are going to go by facts and not opinions, Bowles is in fact the HC of the Jets.

 

[Mainejet]

Well, if we are going to go by facts and not opinions, Bowles is in fact the HC of the Jets.

Yes he is....UNFORTUNATELY..........

 

[SackExchange]

You're posing that a as a question when you already know the answer? You already know the answer is no, or else you would've already attempted to use my words against me by quoting me?

I have never claimed anything is fact when the point is unproven. However, opposing QB's having 139.1 passer rating when passing to Lee's responsibility is absolutely factual. Lee generating MOST of his 73 tackles after he has already been abused in pass coverage in absolutely truthful. If you question it go on youtube and examine his 73 tackles closer.

You just don't like me attacking one of Mac's biggest picks an drawing conclusions so quickly. You think Lee is wonderful and you're deliberately choosing to overlook his problems in pass coverage and context being set with his 73 tackles? My opinion of him is in stark contrast to you and Mydog's opinion.

I just THINK this guy has JAG at best written all over him mostly due to Mac's incompetence in making the pick in the first place. I also firmly believe the only reason he was selected was because of Christian Hackenberg, which makes Lee's selection that much more of a risky gamble? I don't like how Mac handled the 2016 draft and I think as a result he set this team's development back substantially. Like I posted already, if he had gotten the draft right, we might not be in full tear it down mode right now. 3 years into his tenure here.

Not the Lee part. You posited your political opinions as fact.

You went on a several paragraph rant based on you presuming I was talking about Lee when I said you posited opinion as fact. I wasn't. I was talking about your political views.

As I understand it, there is a place here at JFU to discuss politics, for those who somehow feel enriched engaging in political discourse with people who share a rooting interest in the NFL.

 

[LIJETFAN]

MaineJet - Yes to reiterate, comments like "Fake News" are also political discourse - that's a Trump mantra to assault the media, which some might find offensive. I do. If there is a place to discuss politics on JFU MaineJet, please opine there, but let's keep football discussions to football.

As far as you football discussion goes - I would never conclude that your opinions about Lee are wrong or not supported by some facts. I just think it is premature to write him off at this point. He's had one year in the pros. Same for Jenkins. And I can appreciate your point of view with respect to the 2016 draft - I know I hated Idzik's draft and thought he completely botched it. I thought the same thing when Tannebaum traded up for Stephen Hill. So, time will tell on that draft. In my opinion, Mac has drafted pretty well overall. I would disagree that if the 2016 draft went differently we would not have had to rebuild. That should have been done in Mac's first year. This roster was aging, and aged really fast last year.

Lastly, the Bowles - "Toilet" nickname commentary is probably unnecessary, and probably unwarranted. He had a good first year where the team outperformed, and a bad second year. Hardly a terrible resume at this point for a first time head coach. If Parcells, Gibbs, and others think highly of him, that's good enough for me. I want to see what he does when he has time to develop his team, and has a true starting QB. That's the only way you can truly assess him as a coach.

 

[Bigmoe]

I want to see what he does when he has time to develop his team, and has a true starting QB. That's the only way you can truly assess him as a coach.

Time to develop his team???
Id like to know how long are you going to give him???


A true starting QB ????
Again if we Jet fans judged our coaches by this you can basically give all the Jet coaches a pass back to Weeb

Now this is my opinion : you guys give Bowles way to much leniency with this rebuild , roster spots , QBs , blah blah blah

Win, show me team effort , Win, or goodby.

 

[LIJETFAN]

I've been a Jet fan for over 40 years. Trust me, I get it when it comes to wanting to win now. But the reality is, the roster is not there yet. I believe 2 more years is fair. This is a developmental year. The Jets are not ready to compete for a division or a wild card. After this season we should know whether Hackenberg can play. If he can't, we'll be drafting a QB in the first round next year. Then, he gets one more year to show significant imnprovement. If not, he's out and you look for a new coach.

For everyone who wants Bowles gone, who exactly is going to come here to replace him? We don't have the QB position settled. We are rebuildiing the roster. And the owner wants to hire and fire the coach. It's not a great situation for a prospective coach. And there are no Parcells or Gibbs out there to go and get. If you say Harbaugh - I say great, would love it. I don't see him coming here, but ok. IF we can get him great. If not, who else are you proposing to replace him that would be such a huge upgrade?

 

[flgreen]

well said..

that said, i believe maine is a good guy/poster who just so happens to not have much of a filter..

i'm basing this on 10+ years posting with the guy..

The Wife's cat wanted me to tell you Happy Birthday. She'd do it herself but she's in time out

 

[jetgreen13]

The Wife's cat wanted me to tell you Happy Birthday. She'd do it herself but she's in time out

hey, happy birthday to you too..

 

[Mainejet]

MaineJet - Yes to reiterate, comments like "Fake News" are also political discourse - that's a Trump mantra to assault the media, which some might find offensive. I do. If there is a place to discuss politics on JFU MaineJet, please opine there, but let's keep football discussions to football.

As far as you football discussion goes - I would never conclude that your opinions about Lee are wrong or not supported by some facts. I just think it is premature to write him off at this point. He's had one year in the pros. Same for Jenkins. And I can appreciate your point of view with respect to the 2016 draft - I know I hated Idzik's draft and thought he completely botched it. I thought the same thing when Tannebaum traded up for Stephen Hill. So, time will tell on that draft. In my opinion, Mac has drafted pretty well overall. I would disagree that if the 2016 draft went differently we would not have had to rebuild. That should have been done in Mac's first year. This roster was aging, and aged really fast last year.

Lastly, the Bowles - "Toilet" nickname commentary is probably unnecessary, and probably unwarranted. He had a good first year where the team outperformed, and a bad second year. Hardly a terrible resume at this point for a first time head coach. If Parcells, Gibbs, and others think highly of him, that's good enough for me. I want to see what he does when he has time to develop his team, and has a true starting QB. That's the only way you can truly assess him as a coach.

In regards to the first two paragraphs, I say "fair enough". I think we've already seen enough of Darron Lee to know he's not a good fit? Only time will tell, but the initial results were not good.

But as for the last paragraph.... Joe Gibbs and Bill parcells, etc. would NEVER speak poorly of an opposing HC, so their stance is irrelevant. But the biggest reason I do not like him is for 3 reasons:

1) Everyone thought they were getting the anti-Rex? The guy that would instill tough love with the players. The guy that you so badly did not want to disappoint? A disciplinarian and the complete OPPOSITE of Rex. We don't have that with Bowles. What we have instead is a guy that MANY have already mentioned is a LOT like Rex WITHOUT the impressive results (at least in his first two seasons). The team quit on him last season and IMO the very second that happens you MUST change the coach.

2) He doesn't seem to get the meaning of the rivalry between the Jets/Pats?? Rex (and I don't want to get into a discussion about whether Rex should have been fired. He's ancient history, however there a few areas where Rex was absolutely spot on. One being the rivalry. No matter how bad the Jets were, you could always count on the jets giving the patsies absolute hell. In 2014, the Jets were a HORRIBLE team, yet they lost two games to the eventual SB champs by a combined score of 3 points. if that doesn't show that Rex understood the rivalry then I don't know what does? Meanwhile, Bowles was outclassed in every single coaching measurable against Bellichick in their two games against the patsies last season. They had ZERO fight. They laid down the very instant the opening kickoff happened. At the very least the defense should have shown up for that game, especially when you consider that is Bowles supposed specialty. In stead they embarrassed in two laughers. I'm sorry to say, I fear Bowles does NOT get the importance of divisional play?

3) RESULTS - Coaching is a results oriented business. Always has been, always will be. You cannot argue all day about whether that's fair or not, but that will always be the way it is. Bowles now has a 15-17 record in two seasons. Is it too much to expect that we actually have a HC with a WINNING record? NO. It is not. Especially when you consider that the whole point of firing Rex was to get a BETTER HC. Having claims thrown around like, "He's lost the players" has always been the kiss of death for a HC. Fans and media said the very same things after Herm's final 2005 season. They said the same after Al Groh's single season. I'm sure that is common in every city that has a football team.

 

[LIJETFAN]

I understand your perspective MaineJet. And you said a lot there that I would agree with generally. My only comments would be that I am not totally convinced that Bowles lost his players. Perhaps some of his players, but not the entire team. I think the culture in the locker room was challenging last year and needed to change. Parcells used to have "his guys." That team had a lot of aging veterans, and some may have been "Rex guys." Which is fine. I know players would run through a wall for Rex. But they are different personalities and different coaches. I would like to see what Bowles can do with a team that buys in to his philosophy. I am willing to give him two more years to prove himself.

And again, I would simply ask, if not Bowles, than who? I would assume everyone here would want a proven coach with a track record, not another hot coordinator. The last 4 HCs have been hot coordinators. Edwards, Mangini, Rex and Bowles. So who would you get to replace him? To me, it makes little sense to bring in another coordinator, with another system, another staff, etc. to get their first shot as a HC. I would rather see Bowles improve, which I think he can do, than go through that again. I would rather see a proven head coach with a winning track record come here - but there aren't any of those guys available. Like I said, the Jets can make a run at Harbaugh, but I don't see it....so my request is, put forward some names..and I'll be more than happy to support a change. But change for change's sake is not the solution either. We've been there and done that too many times, and it has never worked.

 

[LIJETFAN]

I would also add that Bowles did make some significant changes on his coaching staff, and that might change the dynamic on this team. So let's give this new staff a chance too.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

I cannot wait for camp to open. It will be good to see players hitting one another instead of us just smacking each other around on this site. JUST KIDDING!

I think we will know right away if Wilkerson is at or near 100%, if Richardson is focused and acting like a professional, if Burris is running with the starters and holding his own, and if Maye will contribute as a rookie.

 

[Mainejet]

I understand your perspective MaineJet. And you said a lot there that I would agree with generally. My only comments would be that I am not totally convinced that Bowles lost his players. Perhaps some of his players, but not the entire team. I think the culture in the locker room was challenging last year and needed to change. Parcells used to have "his guys." That team had a lot of aging veterans, and some may have been "Rex guys." Which is fine. I know players would run through a wall for Rex. But they are different personalities and different coaches. I would like to see what Bowles can do with a team that buys in to his philosophy. I am willing to give him two more years to prove himself.

And again, I would simply ask, if not Bowles, than who? I would assume everyone here would want a proven coach with a track record, not another hot coordinator. The last 4 HCs have been hot coordinators. Edwards, Mangini, Rex and Bowles. So who would you get to replace him? To me, it makes little sense to bring in another coordinator, with another system, another staff, etc. to get their first shot as a HC. I would rather see Bowles improve, which I think he can do, than go through that again. I would rather see a proven head coach with a winning track record come here - but there aren't any of those guys available. Like I said, the Jets can make a run at Harbaugh, but I don't see it....so my request is, put forward some names..and I'll be more than happy to support a change. But change for change's sake is not the solution either. We've been there and done that too many times, and it has never worked.

The next hot coordinator unfortunately? There doesn't seem to be much of a list of established, successful HC's right now. Although I do believe guys like Bill Cowher or Jimmy Johnson should be given a call?

in the end, I'd probably hire MIKE WESTHOFF. This is a HOF coordinator that got screwed, never taken seriously as a HC candidate. He still talks all the time that he would never come back to be ST coordinator, but he would to be a HC.

I think he would be MILES better than Toilet, right from the get go.

 

[Bigmoe]

I think he would be MILES better than Toilet, right from the get go.

So would my sister
although she's a Giants fan