$15 dollar min wage

[ucrenegade]

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...-wage-you-can-change-the-wage-but-not-th.aspx

I used to think that was the answer but being poor i am biased.

I honestly don't know the answer to this.

you can say go back to when we were productive and the middle-class boomed in the 50's but technology changes that landscape.

I really don't know if anyone can find a solution to this problem anymore.

 

[mykcuz]

In the 50s, we were a producing country, the world bought American, what Germany is known for now. With a 1 worker family the dollar went so far, when you flood the work force with women, you have the same amount of work to be done, but twice as many people willing to work. It's dilution, women working is good, but you have to understand everything has an effect.
With the recent "quantitative easing" of the Obama years, also known as printing money, you had a work force make the same salary one year to the next, but the dollar reduced in value by a third, so you effectively lost 30%of your income even though you still make the same numerical number.
It's the pizza pie, whether you cut it in 2 pieces or 20, it's still just one pie. Theoretically, minimum wage does the same thing, it's nice, who wouldn't want more money, but it dilutes the value of the dollar, so now you make $15 but you still can't afford anything. Just exaggerate the situation, and you'll understand if it works. Forget $15, let's just print $1 million for every American, what would happen? We wouldn't all be driving ferrari's.

Another aspect is the breaking point. With the threat of $15 wages, you now see computer screens at McDonald's instead of people. Machines never call out or have an attitude or find a better job.

 

[ucrenegade]

In the 50s, we were a producing country, the world bought American, what Germany is known for now. With a 1 worker family the dollar went so far, when you flood the work force with women, you have the same amount of work to be done, but twice as many people willing to work. It's dilution, women working is good, but you have to understand everything has an effect.
With the recent "quantitative easing" of the Obama years, also known as printing money, you had a work force make the same salary one year to the next, but the dollar reduced in value by a third, so you effectively lost 30%of your income even though you still make the same numerical number.
It's the pizza pie, whether you cut it in 2 pieces or 20, it's still just one pie. Theoretically, minimum wage does the same thing, it's nice, who wouldn't want more money, but it dilutes the value of the dollar, so now you make $15 but you still can't afford anything. Just exaggerate the situation, and you'll understand if it works. Forget $15, let's just print $1 million for every American, what would happen? We wouldn't all be driving ferrari's.

Another aspect is the breaking point. With the threat of $15 wages, you now see computer screens at McDonald's instead of people. Machines never call out or have an attitude or find a better job.

all well and good what you said but it goes back to the point I was making does anyone have a real answer how to fix this?

 

[mykcuz]

all well and good what you said but it goes back to the point I was making does anyone have a real answer how to fix this?

Well, I think you need a growing economy to increase pay, so pro growth policy would be a start.

I don't know if there is an answer, but if politicians just keep vilafying ideas just because you belong to the wrong party, then every one is so busy arguing over nothing, that no one is making any ground.
There also might not be an answer, maybe life just sucks for some people.

 

[OCCH]

Well, I think you need a growing economy to increase pay, so pro growth policy would be a start.

I don't know if there is an answer, but if politicians just keep vilafying ideas just because you belong to the wrong party, then every one is so busy arguing over nothing, that no one is making any ground.
There also might not be an answer, maybe life just sucks for some people.

Is it possible to replace the word "suck" with "sacrifice"?

Is it unfair to think a family is always "one generation" away from success? That if the parents make the necessary sacrifices and raise their kids to place a high importance on education/work ethic, that the children have the ability to be significantly better off than their parents were?

No one likes to think that way, because who wants to work their life away and not get to enjoy it. And of course it doesn't guarantee future success (even "wealthy" families can't guarantee that). But is it possible "poor" people control their future more than the media leads us to believe?

I've worked in minority school systems for over a decade, and I've seen how far these kids can go when motivated to do so. I've taught kids who illegally lived in someone's basement, but are now in a Rutgers pre-med program. Of course that's extreme, but I really don't believe we live in a society that "holds down the poor man". If anything, we give too much incentive to NOT rise from current circumstances.

I hate how judgmental this probably sounds -- I really don't mean it to be. I won't pretend to be able to relate to what some people go through (I'd call myself lower middle class), but I struggle wrapping my mind around this idea that people "can't live" according to our current societal rules. I think it's more "I can't live the way I want to", which does stink, but is still exponentially better than most of the world lives.

Just throwing thoughts out there -- feel free to enlighten me! I hate how many people think "you can't talk politics" -- how else are we to expand our thought process? It's only bad when people refuse to see other points of view.

Hopefully that's not what happens here . . .

 

[ucrenegade]

Is it possible to replace the word "suck" with "sacrifice"?

Is it unfair to think a family is always "one generation" away from success? That if the parents make the necessary sacrifices and raise their kids to place a high importance on education/work ethic, that the children have the ability to be significantly better off than their parents were?

No one likes to think that way, because who wants to work their life away and not get to enjoy it. And of course it doesn't guarantee future success (even "wealthy" families can't guarantee that). But is it possible "poor" people control their future more than the media leads us to believe?

I've worked in minority school systems for over a decade, and I've seen how far these kids can go when motivated to do so. I've taught kids who illegally lived in someone's basement, but are now in a Rutgers pre-med program. Of course that's extreme, but I really don't believe we live in a society that "holds down the poor man". If anything, we give too much incentive to NOT rise from current circumstances.

I hate how judgmental this probably sounds -- I really don't mean it to be. I won't pretend to be able to relate to what some people go through (I'd call myself lower middle class), but I struggle wrapping my mind around this idea that people "can't live" according to our current societal rules. I think it's more "I can't live the way I want to", which does stink, but is still exponentially better than most of the world lives.

Just throwing thoughts out there -- feel free to enlighten me! I hate how many people think "you can't talk politics" -- how else are we to expand our thought process? It's only bad when people refuse to see other points of view.

Hopefully that's not what happens here . . .

you make a good point, however the reason alot of people don't rise like they can is not because of a hold me down attitude I believe it is more they don't know how to go after something.

In the world you need networks, contacts, and other stuff helping you to open some doors and you can see the door.

The poor people it's not that the doors are not there, the problem is they have no one to show them where the doors are before they can attempt to open one.

 

[OCCH]

you make a good point, however the reason alot of people don't rise like they can is not because of a hold me down attitude I believe it is more they don't know how to go after something.

In the world you need networks, contacts, and other stuff helping you to open some doors and you can see the door.

The poor people it's not that the doors are not there, the problem is they have no one to show them where the doors are before they can attempt to open one.

I cannot agree with this from an education point of view.

The possibilities are ENDLESS for "at-risk" kids. They have opportunities I know my children will never qualify for (not complaining -- just stating a fact). If you have a guidance counselor that cares AT ALL about doing a good job, any kid can get pointed in the right direction, whether that be college, trade school, etc.

Now, I've always lived in Jersey, who apparently takes education more seriously than other parts of the nation. So maybe down south kids are falling through the cracks, but around here the only kids who don't make something of themselves are the ones who jump through the cracks on purpose . . .

 

[Mugatu]

In the 50s, we were a producing country, the world bought American, what Germany is known for now. With a 1 worker family the dollar went so far, when you flood the work force with women, you have the same amount of work to be done, but twice as many people willing to work. It's dilution, women working is good, but you have to understand everything has an effect.
With the recent "quantitative easing" of the Obama years, also known as printing money, you had a work force make the same salary one year to the next, but the dollar reduced in value by a third, so you effectively lost 30%of your income even though you still make the same numerical number.
It's the pizza pie, whether you cut it in 2 pieces or 20, it's still just one pie. Theoretically, minimum wage does the same thing, it's nice, who wouldn't want more money, but it dilutes the value of the dollar, so now you make $15 but you still can't afford anything. Just exaggerate the situation, and you'll understand if it works. Forget $15, let's just print $1 million for every American, what would happen? We wouldn't all be driving ferrari's.

Another aspect is the breaking point. With the threat of $15 wages, you now see computer screens at McDonald's instead of people. Machines never call out or have an attitude or find a better job.

Except the pie HAS gotten bigger since the 50's. Yet real wages (adjusted for inflation) haven't. Worker productivity has also increased, but wages have not.

Right now everyone subsidizes low income jobs via their tax dollars, whether it is through health care costs or programs like HARP or SNAP.

Yet you have corporations who are paying little to no taxes, shipping jobs overseas and hiding profits in offshore holdings.
I know they are lauded as the "job creators" by some, but let's not act like the jobs they create are born from some desire to do a public good, they exist because it helps drive their bottom line. The minute they think they can save a few bucks, those jobs go POOF in a cloud of smoke.

A healthy economy has free flowing capital. It circulates from the bottom to the top, and back up again, like blood, and the whole body grows. Right now that flow seems to be increasingly upwards and in concentrating in the head.... Guess what happens when you have stagnant blood in the head? A stroke.

There simply cannot be any more squeezing of the middle class. The credit cards are max'd, the last bastion of wealth savings in the middle class (home ownership) was attacked and drained in 2008. Seriously, if/when things go to shite next time around, where will the money come from?

Those at the top must realize that this will eventually collapse, but you can make sure they will strangle the pocketbook of the average American until the last possible second, and have their golden parachute ready to jump off just before the plane hits the mountain.

 

[ucrenegade]

Except the pie HAS gotten bigger since the 50's. Yet real wages (adjusted for inflation) haven't. Worker productivity has also increased, but wages have not.

Right now everyone subsidizes low income jobs via their tax dollars, whether it is through health care costs or programs like HARP or SNAP.

Yet you have corporations who are paying little to no taxes, shipping jobs overseas and hiding profits in offshore holdings.
I know they are lauded as the "job creators" by some, but let's not act like the jobs they create are born from some desire to do a public good, they exist because it helps drive their bottom line. The minute they think they can save a few bucks, those jobs go POOF in a cloud of smoke.

A healthy economy has free flowing capital. It circulates from the bottom to the top, and back up again, like blood, and the whole body grows. Right now that flow seems to be increasingly upwards and in concentrating in the head.... Guess what happens when you have stagnant blood in the head? A stroke.

There simply cannot be any more squeezing of the middle class. The credit cards are max'd, the last bastion of wealth savings in the middle class (home ownership) was attacked and drained in 2008. Seriously, if/when things go to shite next time around, where will the money come from?

Those at the top must realize that this will eventually collapse, but you can make sure they will strangle the pocketbook of the average American until the last possible second, and have their golden parachute ready to jump off just before the plane hits the mountain.

very well said it's amazing for how smart rich people are portrayed it's a wonder they can't see this.

 

[Mugatu]

very well said it's amazing for how smart rich people are portrayed it's a wonder they can't see this.

They think (keyword...THINK) their asses are covered so they disregard the obvious perils....It may not be in my lifetime, but I honestly believe if this path continues, a few of them might end up being seen hanging from their necks from the lampposts on Wall Street. You can only push the populace so far before there is radical change/uprising.

You can take from people, but at the point where they have nothing left to lose, they become dangerous.