2 new cases opened on Winston for Battery and Sexual Assault

[Superman55]

no but i can sense the heat rising between you two, just wanted to be careful

Nah, i dont really care about Winston that much. I do think he's a scumbag, whether he did what he's been accused of or not.

One thing is for sure, 100% sure...Jamies Winston loves himself. Just listen to him talk. I dont believe there is anything he loves more than himself...and that selfishness mixed with immaturity has caused most of these self inflicted wounds.

We can sit here and pretend everything that has happened to Winston is because he's famous...but that isnt true...Mariota is famous, Manziel is more famous and more rich than Winston will ever be (old oil money), Peyton Manning, RG3, etc, etc all had big targets on their backs in college, especially their last year...none of them came into the NFL with near this much baggage...some of this is self inflected.

How much is true, only Winston and God knows...Im not pretending to know...as I've said on every post...just more smoke around a prospect the Jets are considering. Thats all that matters. ive said on other threads I still think he goes #1 and I still think he has a chance to turn his life around working with a mentor like Lovie and/or Dungy...

 

[jets82]

no but i can sense the heat rising between you two, just wanted to be careful

LOL, like me and sg3. That was getting hot and heavy and boy that dude pissed me off quite abit. I had to hit the ignore button on him before I got banned.

 

[Elias]

LOL, like me and sg3. That was getting hot and heavy and boy that dude pissed me off quite abit. I had to hit the ignore button on him before I got banned.

With the way this board is going and the advice we are giving people everyone will be on ignore and we'll be talking to ourselves. lol

 

[Pointdexter]

Lol, I wouldn't put 55 on ignore. He contributes a lot of great info and we go back a long ways now. Every once in a while it's fun to get into a good ol' fashioned knock-down, drag-out. No hard feelings here.

 

[maxmet]

I appreciate the debate about what he may or may not have done. I accept that reasonable people - including reasonable people on this Board - may have various views about what has been alleged.

Does anyone think that the filing of these civil cases changes anything about that debate?

My view is that the filing of these civil cases changes nothing - whatever is public, whatever else the Jets and other teams have been able to learn about these events or about JW as a person is not changed one bit by the filing of the civil suits.

 

[Superman55]

With the way this board is going and the advice we are giving people everyone will be on ignore and we'll be talking to ourselves. lol

Did you just describe marriage?

 

[Football51]

Dennis Waszak Jr. @DWAZ73 · 22m22 minutes ago

Jameis Winston's lawyer calls sex assault suit against QB a 'stunt' (from @AP) http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268750/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=yj92GhM3 …

 

[Superman55]

Lol, I wouldn't put 55 on ignore. He contributes a lot of great info and we go back a long ways now. Every once in a while it's fun to get into a good ol' fashioned knock-down, drag-out. No hard feelings here.

Pointdexter and I go back and forth on prospects every draft season. There aren't many more informed ACC scouts around than this guy...I'm a fan of his perspective, that's why I ask for his opinion so much on the threads (even when he doesn't respond, like the combine thread ).

I always find him an important person to hear from this time of year. Also, while I may not agree with him on Winston as a person, he has steadily kept us informed on these allogatiins unfolding. I hope no one think I am arguing his points in the case. I'm not. I 100% trust his analysis of the case, I just feel this is one of many incidents, and there are too many stacking up, false or not. My opinion in no way is to discredit Point. He's a valuable source of information for sure.

 

[NickSINYC]

I appreciate the debate about what he may or may not have done. I accept that reasonable people - including reasonable people on this Board - may have various views about what has been alleged.

Does anyone think that the filing of these civil cases changes anything about that debate?

My view is that the filing of these civil cases changes nothing - whatever is public, whatever else the Jets and other teams have been able to learn about these events or about JW as a person is not changed one bit by the filing of the civil suits.

This....... it's all about the money.

 

[Superman55]

Winston throwing two draft parties on day 1 draft day, both in Birmingham Alabama, one party is all day and the second party is all night.

 

[cysporsche]

Winston throwing two draft parties on day 1 draft day, both in Birmingham Alabama, one party is all day and the second party is all night.

LOL, Winston will end up getting drunk and raping some girl @ one of his parties, and be the first #1 NFL draft choice to be arrested the same day he's drafted. He needs to be up in Chicago @ the draft with the rest of the draftees, not throwing some big shingdig down in Alabama.

Go Jets...Cyborg

 

[Superman55]

LOL, Winston will end up getting drunk and raping some girl @ one of his parties, and be the first #1 NFL draft choice to be arrested the same day he's drafted. He needs to be up in Chicago @ the draft with the rest of the draftees, not throwing some big shingdig down in Alabama.

Go Jets...Cyborg

The foolishness continues...guess he won't be spending much time with his new team day 1...this is the behavior that has me doubting how much football truly means to this kid...he'd rather celebrate himself then get to work with his new team...

 

[hobson54]

The foolishness continues...guess he won't be spending much time with his new team day 1...this is the behavior that has me doubting how much football truly means to this kid...he'd rather celebrate himself then get to work with his new team...

well if he was at the draft in Chicago, how much work would he be doing with the coaches in tampa (or pick another city) the day he got drafted? do you think going to the actual draft and celebrating in that city is any different than celebrating at home with your friends and family?

 

[Superman55]

well if he was at the draft in Chicago, how much work would he be doing with the coaches in tampa (or pick another city) the day he got drafted? do you think going to the actual draft and celebrating in that city is any different than celebrating at home with your friends and family?

I do think the teams Marketing staff uses that time to help market their brand, sell season tickets, take the player back to their facility, meet all coaches and staff, and give him a copy of the playbook...I do believe that happens in the first 24 hours...

 

[hobson54]

I do think the teams Marketing staff uses that time to help market their brand, sell season tickets, take the player back to their facility, meet all coaches and staff, and give him a copy of the playbook...I do believe that happens in the first 24 hours...

the draft is thursday night. i'd be willing to bet winston will be at the facility of the team that drafted him on friday. whether he is in chicago thursday night or his family home in alabama, i'm sure the team drafting him will get him to their place to meet the coaches and probably put on a jersey in front of cameras on friday.

there's plenty of concern about winston. this seems gratuitous piling on because he will be celebrating with his friends and family in alabama instead of sitting in a theatre in chicago

 

[Superman55]

the draft is thursday night. i'd be willing to bet winston will be at the facility of the team that drafted him on friday. whether he is in chicago thursday night or his family home in alabama, i'm sure the team drafting him will get him to their place to meet the coaches and probably put on a jersey in front of cameras on friday.

there's plenty of concern about winston. this seems gratuitous piling on because he will be celebrating with his friends and family in alabama instead of sitting in a theatre in chicago

Fair...but if you were his agents PR staff would you have him hugging the commissioner?

 

[hobson54]

Fair...but if you were his agents PR staff would you have him hugging the commissioner?

i'm sure they will get a picture of him hugging his mom and/or grandma

 

[Pointdexter]

Pointdexter and I go back and forth on prospects every draft season. There aren't many more informed ACC scouts around than this guy...I'm a fan of his perspective, that's why I ask for his opinion so much on the threads (even when he doesn't respond, like the combine thread )..

Sorry I missed all of that. Here's my take on Dorsett:

What I like: He has really improved his body since coming out of high school. He's much stronger. He also is someone that can effectively run the short to intermediate patterns. Coming out of high school, he was a guy who ran the old "number 9" route, and not much else. What does this all tell me? He is someone who likes football and works to make himself better. Seems to be a solid guy too.

What I don't like: He has not earned the position of the draft that he is projected to go. He is overvalued at this point. Most people may not know this but he was teammates with Rashad Greene at St. Thomas Aquinas high school and came out of the same class. Greene was the superior player and prospect at that time. He was the #1 option; not Dorsett.

High school ranking:

Dorsett: Composite 3 star player; 51st ranked WR nationally
Green: Composite 4 star player; 16th ranked WR nationally

Fast forward to the college years and not much has changed.

Career college #'s:
Dorsett: 121 receptions for 2,132 yards and 17 touchdowns
Greene: 270 receptions for 3,830 yards and 29 touchdowns

Drops:
Dorsett: 1 per 37 balls
Greene: 1 per 74 balls

Punt Returns:
Dorsett: Career average of 4.9 yards per return. 0 TD's
Greene: Career average of 12.3 yards per return. 2 TD's

Ya, you can make the argument that Dorsett didn't have the talent around him that Greene did, but still this is something that is significant. When they were teammates, Greene was the better player then too. I watched a lot of Miami the last couple years and I always felt that Dorsett was at best their #2 WR. I think Stacy Coley is their #1 (not draft eligible yet). Also, I think Duke Johnson is twice the all-around football player that Dorsett is.

So, do I think Dorsett can be a successful piece to a WR group in the NFL? Yup. Would I hate it if we took him? Nope. Do I think he is a fringe 1st rounder? Definitely not. Speed isn't everything. I would take Greene or Tyler Lockett a full round later than Dorsett and take my chances with those guys. Also, in no universe, if I have my pick on Canes players, am I taking Dorsett ahead of Duke Johnson.

Ya, this is a complicated answer, but I hope it sheds some light on where I'm at with this.

 

[Superman55]

Sorry I missed all of that. Here's my take on Dorsett:

What I like: He has really improved his body since coming out of high school. He's much stronger. He also is someone that can effectively run the short to intermediate patterns. Coming out of high school, he was a guy who ran the old "number 9" route, and not much else. What does this all tell me? He is someone who likes football and works to make himself better. Seems to be a solid guy too.

What I don't like: He has not earned the position of the draft that he is projected to go. He is overvalued at this point. Most people may not know this but he was teammates with Rashad Greene at St. Thomas Aquinas high school and came out of the same class. Greene was the superior player and prospect at that time. He was the #1 option; not Dorsett.

High school ranking:

Dorsett: Composite 3 star player; 51st ranked WR nationally
Green: Composite 4 star player; 16th ranked WR nationally

Fast forward to the college years and not much has changed.

Career college #'s:
Dorsett: 121 receptions for 2,132 yards and 17 touchdowns
Greene: 270 receptions for 3,830 yards and 29 touchdowns

Drops:
Dorsett: 1 per 37 balls
Greene: 1 per 74 balls

Punt Returns:
Dorsett: Career average of 4.9 yards per return. 0 TD's
Greene: Career average of 12.3 yards per return. 2 TD's

Ya, you can make the argument that Dorsett didn't have the talent around him that Greene did, but still this is something that is significant. When they were teammates, Greene was the better player then too. I watched a lot of Miami the last couple years and I always felt that Dorsett was at best their [URL=http://nyjetsfanatics.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2]#2 [/URL] WR. I think Stacy Coley is their #1 (not draft eligible yet). Also, I think Duke Johnson is twice the all-around football player that Dorsett is.

So, do I think Dorsett can be a successful piece to a WR group in the NFL? Yup. Would I hate it if we took him? Nope. Do I think he is a fringe 1st rounder? Definitely not. Speed isn't everything. I would take Greene or Tyler Lockett a full round later than Dorsett and take my chances with those guys. Also, in no universe, if I have my pick on Canes players, am I taking Dorsett ahead of Duke Johnson.

Ya, this is a complicated answer, but I hope it sheds some light on where I'm at with this.

Your response is exactly why I respect those on this board's draft opinions over the likes of Kiper and McShay. Your response is more based on your eyes while their is half based on eyes and half on entertainment value. Im very glad you're part of the board.

One of the key things I think you pointed out is draft value. I think Wrs are going to go fast and furious, wouldn't be shocked if 4 WRs go in the top 12 with Cooper, White, Parker, and Perriman, and the next level of WRs getting scooped up shortly thereafter. I think Dorsett goes somewhere between late rd 1 and mid rd 2.

On the other hand, and we likely agree strong here, I think RBs gets plucked here and there and the top RBs, Gurley and Gordon, likely go somewhere mid rd 1 through early rd 2. I have had Duke Johnson #3 on my RB list all along, but I think he goes mid rd 2 to mid rd 3.

Im still in the trade down, but not too far down camp (need to stay in the top 12, IMO). I would be very happy with a trade down scenario that leads to Dupree OLB rd 1, Dorsett WR #3 7, and maybe use the extra picks from trading down to move back into late rd 2 to snag Duke Johnson RB.

I would be very happy a draft where we came out with one of the pass rushers rd 1 (Dupree, Gregory, or Ray, pending Bowles preference, but that's my order of preference), then Dorsett rd 2, and Johnson late rd 2 or rd 3....

I dont disagree on anything you said about Dorsett, I think day 1 he gives value returning punts and kicks and learning from Marshall, Decker, and Kerley...his ceiling may be a #2 ...but I think he can be a Brandin Cook type for us that adds a new dimension our offense needs.

Also, I believe he's been very durable for a guy built like him. I probably like him more than you, but I think we're on the same page on what he'd add to the roster. I also agree in a preference of getting Johnson over him, I just think from a draft chart Johnson goes lower and we may be able to steal him later.

Hey - thanks for your feedback.

 

[Pointdexter]

I would be very happy a draft where we came out with one of the pass rushers rd 1 (Dupree, Gregory, or Ray, pending Bowles preference, but that's my order of preference), then Dorsett rd 2, and Johnson late rd 2 or rd 3....

In that scenario I would be really disappointed if we didn't come away with a QB in our first 3 picks. Really, in any scenario I'm hoping to see a QB in the first three picks.

Here is an interesting thought on trading back.

1) Todd Gurley
2) Eli Harold
2) Bryce Petty
3) Tyler Lockett