Hams Updated Big Board 3.0 (by Tiers)

[Green Jets & Ham]

Its draft week and time for the final update.

1. A Big Board is not a mock draft so it does not take positional value or needs into account. Its simply ranking the prospects regardless of position or any other peripheral considerations.

2. Some people rank their Big Boards in precise order, 1 thru 100 or what have you, but I prefer the old Gil Brandt method of breaking it down by tiers because precise opinions vary from person to person.

Tier 1 = Elite Blue Chippers
Tier 2 = TOP 16 Blue Chippers
Tier 3 = Mid 1's & TOP 16 Red Flags
Tier 4 = Late 1's and Early 2's
Tier 5 = Middle 2's to Early 3's
Tier 6 = Early 3's to Middle 3's
Tier 7 = Middle 3's to Middle 4's

TIER 1 (1-4)

• WR Amari Cooper
• WR Kevin White
• DL Leonard Williams
• DE/OLB Dante Fowler

TIER 2 (5-16)

• QB Marcus Mariota
• QB Jameis Winston (Red Flags - Character)
• RB Todd Gurley (Torn ACL in 2014)
• RB Melvin Gordon
• WR DeVante Parker
• WR Breshad Perriman
• T/G Brandon Scherff
• T/G La'el Collins
• DT Danny Shelton
• DE/OLB Bud Dupree
• DE/OLB Vic Beasley
• CB Trae Waynes

TIER 3 (17-26)

• OT Andrus Peat
• OT Ereck Flowers
• OT D.J. Humphries
• DT Malcom Brown
• DT Eddie Goldman
• DE/OLB Shane Ray (Red Flags - Foot & Weed)
• DE/OLB Randy Gregory (Red Flags - Weed)
• CB Marcus Peters (Red Flags - Character)
• CB Kevin Johnson
• CB Byron Jones

TIER 4 (27-45)

• QB Bryce Petty
• RB Tevin Coleman
• WR Jaelen Strong
• WR Devin Smith
• WR Philip Dorsett
• WR Nelson Agholor
• WR/TE Devin Funchess
• OT Donovan Smith
• OT Jake Fisher
• OG Laken Tomlinson
• C/G Cameron Irving
• DT Jordan Phillips
• DL Arik Armstead
• DE/OLB Eli Harold
• DE/OLB Danielle Hunter
• LB Benardrick McKinney
• CB Eric Rowe
• S Damarious Randall
• S Landon Collins

TIER 5 (46-67)

• QB Garrett Grayson
• RB David Johnson
• RB Ameer Abdullah
• RB Duke Johnson
• WR Dorial Green-Beckham (Red Flags - Thug)
• WR Tyler Lockett
• WR Sammie Coates
• TE Maxx Williams
• OT T.J. Clemmings
• DT Carl Davis
• DT Michael Bennett
• DT Grady Jarrett
• DE/OLB Owamagbe Odighizuwa
• DE/OLB Preston Smith
• DE/OLB Nate Orchard
• LB Shaq Thompson
• LB Eric Kendricks
• LB Stephone Anthony
• LB Paul Dawson
• CB Jalen Collins
• CB Ronald Darby
• CB Quinten Rollins

TIER 6 (68-84)

• QB Brett Hundley
• RB Jay Ajayi (Red Flags - Knee)
• RB Cameron Artis-Payne
• WR Tre McBride
• WR Chris Conoly
• WR/TE Darren Waller
• OT Cedric Ogbuehi (Torn ACL in 2014)
• OT Daryl Williams
• OG A.J. Cann
• OG Tre Jackson
• OG Ali Marpet
• DE Mario Edwards
• DE/OLB Trey Flowers
• DE/OLB Davis Tull
• DT Xavier Cooper
• LB Denzel Perryman
• CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu (Torn ACL in 2014)

TIER 7 (85-122)

• QB Sean Mannion
• RB Jeremy Langford
• RB David Cobb
• RB TJ Yeldon
• RB Javorius Allen
• WR Rashad Greene
• WR Ty Montgomery
• WR Stefon Diggs
• WR Justin Hardy
• WR Vince Mayle
• TE Clive Walford
• TE MyCole Pruitt
• TE Wes Saxton
• OT Tyler Sambrailo
• OT Jeremiah Poutasi
• T/G Tyrus Thompson
• OG Arie Kouandjio
• C Hroniss Grasu
• DT Gabe Wright
• DT Henry Anderson
• DT Marcus Hardison
• DE Frank Clark
• DE/OLB Lorenzo Mauldin
• DE/OLB Hauoli Kikaha (Red Flags - Medical History)
• ILB Ben Heeney
• CB P.J. Williams (Red Flags - Weed & Character)
• CB Steven Nelson
• CB Alex Carter
• CB DJoun Smith
• CB Josh Shaw
• CB Craig Mager
• CB Doran Grant
• CB Charles Gaines
• S Gerod Holliman
• S Jaquiski Tartt
• S Cody Pruitt
• S James Sample
• S Ibraheim Campbell

 

[nycdan]

Great first take, Ham. I'll throw a few stones because..well that's what we do

I don't see Perriman in the same tier as Parker. Everyone has Parker at 3 but opinions on Perriman range from 4-8 depending on who and when. Overall though, I don't see him cracking the top-20 unless some WR-needy team goes need over BPA and even then, there are a few other guys in the mix that could go ahead of him depending on the team.

I think Winston is Tier 1 despite the flags because of position if nothing else. If you agree he's the best prospect since Luck, then he's a lock for top-5 in any draft. I know opinions vary depending on how you value certain aspects, but he seems to have all the tools and all the football smarts to be a stud.

I want to believe in White as elite, particularly since he's more likely to be on the board at 6 than Cooper. I can't quite get there but I'm hoping you're right because I would love for us to get 'the next AJ Green'.

Lastly, you have Petty two tiers above Hundley and Grayson. Again there is so much difference of opinion on the three and I often see any of them above the others and I've seen Petty in round 3 a number of times. What do you see in him to separate him from the other two?

Again, great start!

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Great first take, Ham. I'll throw a few stones because..well that's what we do

Thanks for the feedback, dan, I'll take them in the order you posted them.

I don't see Perriman in the same tier as Parker. Everyone has Parker at 3 but opinions on Perriman range from 4-8 depending on who and when. Overall though, I don't see him cracking the top-20 unless some WR-needy team goes need over BPA and even then, there are a few other guys in the mix that could go ahead of him depending on the team.

You could be right, there's a good chance I'm over-ranking Perriman, but its such a passing league now and Perriman has the size and speed GM's salivate over, so I think he comes off the board in the TOP 16, right now I have Parker to the Rams at 10 and Perriman to the Browns at 12, but again, I might be over-inflating his value. We'll find out in three days.

I think Winston is Tier 1 despite the flags because of position if nothing else. If you agree he's the best prospect since Luck, then he's a lock for top-5 in any draft. I know opinions vary depending on how you value certain aspects, but he seems to have all the tools and all the football smarts to be a stud.

I have NO DOUBT Winston is coming off the board at #1 or #2 , probably #1 , but I only have four "elite" prospects in this draft. The QB's will be drafted high due to positional value, but thats a separate issue, the big board is not a mock.

I want to believe in White as elite, particularly since he's more likely to be on the board at 6 than Cooper. I can't quite get there but I'm hoping you're right because I would love for us to get 'the next AJ Green'.

The way I see it, Cooper is the safer choice to be an elite WR at the next level, but White has an even higher ceiling because he's the physically superior athlete. But at the end of the day I view both as elite WR prospects, similar to the year AJ Green and Julio Jones declared in the same draft class, so you can't go wrong either way.

Lastly, you have Petty two tiers above Hundley and Grayson. Again there is so much difference of opinion on the three and I often see any of them above the others and I've seen Petty in round 3 a number of times. What do you see in him to separate him from the other two?

Petty is the prototype and the only thing knocking his grade down in my view is the system he played in at Baylor. Its basically a one read spread offense and the playbook is exceedingly simple, so his transition to the NFL is steep, its like going from fundamental mathematics directly to advanced calculus, the learning curve is immense, but physically he is the prototype; size, mobility, arm strength and accuracy, this kid can conceivably be a 2nd RD steal if he can make the transition to the NFL, the other two are more of a long-shot in my view. That said, if I had to take one of them in the 2nd RD, I would take Grayson. I wish he was a little taller, but he's better than Hundley in my view.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

You know what, Dan, on second thought you convinced me to move Grayson up one tier

 

[nycdan]

You know what, Dan, on second thought you convinced me to move Grayson up one tier

My work is done

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

My work is done

lol

I'm glad you brought that to my attention, because it occurred to me after reflecting on my response that I do like Grayson more than Hundley and he should be in a higher tier. Good Job, Dan

 

[Superman55]

Not trying to change your mind, but I bet scouts have Peters, Johnson, and Waynes in the same tier...and dont be shocked if Johnson goes higher than Waynes.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Not trying to change your mind, but I bet scouts have Peters, Johnson, and Waynes in the same tier...and dont be shocked if Johnson goes higher than Waynes.

I actually tweaked it a little bit before you posted, moved Grayson and a couple of the Corners. I now have Peters and Johnson in the same tier, with Byron Jones in that group too, but I have Waynes a notch above because he's kept his nose clean and there's no issues. If the same was true of Peters I would have him ahead of Waynes. Talent-wise he belongs in Tier 2, but his red flags are serious enough to knock him down at least one tier.

 

[Superman55]

I would still grade them even...again, not trying to change your mind, but here's my thoughts -

Peter is the most impressive in coverage (11 INTs the last 3 years, 8 the last two years despite only playing 8 games last year).

Peters has the best combination of size (6'0 200lbs) and speed, coverage, and tackling (55+ tackles his last complete season)...

Con: issue with coaching

Johnson - has speed, height (6'1 180lbs), and fluid hips and coverage movement.

Con: small, will never be great tackler.

Waynes = has speed, elite speed in the 4.3s, solid in coverage, great make up speed/

Cons - horrible hip movements, poor in and out of breaks, ran rare 3 cone drill with same speed as 40 (as in super slow change of direction)...horrible tackler despite being 6'1 185, is small and get pushed around.


Peters is the only complete CB in this draft with the ability to be a ball hawk and a tackling CB at 200lbs...cons - off the field.

Johnson - best pure coverage CB, but very slim and weak, not good vs run.

Waynes - struggles with WRs with twitch and great route running, weak tackler.

They all have cons, but Peters has 0 football flaws...Waynes cant change direction or tackle and Johnson just cant tackle...since they all have sizable flaws...I grade them =, but I would rate Peters 1, Johnson 2, and Waynes 3...but would be happy with any of them...as a mid to late rd 1 pick.

 

[ucrenegade]

I don't understand how Dorset is tier 4?

 

[Superman55]

I don't understand how Dorset is tier 4?

Good point, especially with no Wrs in tier 3....

I could see him put Strong and maybe Agholor tier 3 and leave Smith and Dorsett in 4, but some of the Wrs need to fall in tier 3, right?

 

[ucrenegade]

Good point, especially with no Wrs in tier 3....

I could see him put Strong and maybe Agholor tier 3 and leave Smith and Dorsett in 4, but some of the Wrs need to fall in tier 3, right?

i would take dorsett over those two anyday

 

[ucrenegade]

Report: Ex-LSU CB Collins Failed Multiple Drug Tests Report: Ex-LSU CB Collins Failed Multiple Drug Tests

 

[Superman55]

i would take dorsett over those two anyday

I honestly would take him over Agholor but would put him and Strong in the same tier...maybe Strong a hair above because he can be a #1 WR while I think there is a good chance Dorsett will never be more than a #2 .

 

[ucrenegade]

I honestly would take him over Agholor but would put him and Strong in the same tier...maybe Strong a hair above because he can be a #1 WR while I think there is a good chance Dorsett will never be more than a #2 .

I like dorestts route running and hands a hair above strong's

 

[Superman55]

Report: Ex-LSU CB Collins Failed Multiple Drug Tests Report: Ex-LSU CB Collins Failed Multiple Drug Tests

Jalen Collins - DB - Tigers
NFL Media draft analyst Lance Zierlein ranks LSU CB Jalen Collins as the No. 2 CB in the class.
He compares Collins to a younger version of Terence Newman. "Immensely talented cornerback who brings the entire triangle (height, weight, speed) with him," Zierlein wrote. "Still learning technique and how to sink his feet with his eyes, but the instincts and athleticism to make plays on the ball both short and deep are what set him apart. Collins is a work in progress, but his physical and play traits create a very high ceiling if he continues to learn to play the position." An NFC director of personnel echoed the optimism in a discussion with Zierlein: "They all have holes, but Collins is what you are looking for in an NFL cornerback with his length and speed. He isn't there yet, but he has the traits and ability to become a high-end starter and maybe the best cornerback from this draft."

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

I don't understand how Dorset is tier 4?

Good point, especially with no Wrs in tier 3....

I could see him put Strong and maybe Agholor tier 3 and leave Smith and Dorsett in 4, but some of the Wrs need to fall in tier 3, right?

Did you guys read the tier definitions at the top of the big board?

Tier 3 is middle 1's and TOP 16 red flags.

Tier 4 is late 1's and early 2's.

Do either of you guys still think Dorsett belongs in Tier 3 based on these tier definitions?

I think he's a late 1 or early 2, do you guys think he goes higher than that?

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Super,

Just so you know, I agree with you that Peters is the best CB in the draft strictly from a measurables and talent POV. I think he's better than Waynes too. In fact one anonymous scout said he gave Peters the highest grade he has given a Corner in 15 years. That might be overstating it, but there's no doubt we are talking about an all-pro caliber CB here. I only knocked him back to Tier 3 due to serious character concerns. The guy was literally booted off his team, twice! Thats gonna hurt his grade in real life, and it hurts his grade here as well, but talent-wise, I agree that he's better than Waynes.

 

[Superman55]

Peters can be ty Law or revis...worst case I think he's Jimmy Smith CB Ravens. I like him a lot.

I also like Rollins CB Miami of Ohio as a developmental prospect later in the draft.

 

[Superman55]

Did you guys read the tier definitions at the top of the big board?

Tier 3 is middle 1's and TOP 16 red flags.

Tier 4 is late 1's and early 2's.

Do either of you guys now think Dorsett belongs in Tier 3 based on these tier definitions?

I think he's a late 1 or early 2, do you guys think he goes higher than that?

No. I wouldn't change it then.