Has the truth about the Jalen Saunders fiasco finally surfaced?

[Superman55]

Yes, he did and I do give him lots of credit for that pick. However, that and the Ivory trade for a fourth were his only good moves besides cleaning up cap space. He did a great job with that but some of the moves he made to clear space were no brainers.

The people who love idzik always bring up the richardson pick...and not the rest of that draft class that other than Richardson the next top picks were Milliner, Geno, Winters, and Campbell....

That's like saying I dated Rosanne Barr, Mama June, Jennifer Aniston, and Cy's left toe....and there are a few that's like wow, you dated Jennifer Aniston instead of, why did you date Roasanne, Mama June, and Cy's toe?

 

[hobson54]

There are a ton of people on this board that would be very excited if Idzik were making this year's pick. They may not admit it, but there are more idzik apologists on this board than you may think.

oh stops with this crap already. there aren't a ton of people who loved idzik. there were some who took a more measured approach, but almost everyone of them (and i was in this group for a time) were 100% on board with him being fired.

 

[Superman55]

...and 100% on board with him staying...

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Yes, he did and I do give him lots of credit for that pick. However, that and the Ivory trade for a fourth were his only good moves besides cleaning up cap space. He did a great job with that but some of the moves he made to clear space were no brainers.

Thats all Idzik is. Thats why he is working for Jags as a cap consultant. I also wouldn't let him negotiate contracts. So glad he is gone!!

 

[hobson54]

The people who love idzik always bring up the richardson pick...and not the rest of that draft class that other than Richardson the next top picks were Milliner, Geno, Winters, and Campbell....

That's like saying I dated Rosanne Barr, Mama June, Jennifer Aniston, and Cy's left toe....and there are a few that's like wow, you dated Jennifer Aniston instead of, why did you date Roasanne, Mama June, and Cy's toe?

it's funny, because for a time, you loved the draft picks of geno smith, calvin pryor, jace amaro and even dexter mcdougle. so i guess for a time, you were in love with rosanne barr, mama june (not even sure who that is) and...apparently...cy's left toe...

 

[lounap23]

didn't he take sheldon richardson with the 13th pick when almost everyone was scratching their heads at the pick?

If I remember correctly that was Rex's pick... Idzik wanted Milliner, which you know Rex wanted too, but Richardson was Rex with a lot of lobbying by Dunbar.

 

[lounap23]

it's funny, because for a time, you loved the draft picks of geno smith, calvin pryor, jace amaro and even dexter mcdougle. so i guess for a time, you were in love with rosanne barr, mama june (not even sure who that is) and...apparently...cy's left toe...

For What it's worth I think Pryor will work out, Amaro was a good pick and I expect bigger things from him this year. McDougle the knock was he was injury prone... Talent to be a 1st/2nd round pick but most had him going 4th/5th due to his senior year injury and the injury prone stigma... IF the guy can stay healthy along with Milliner we don't have CB problem... But that's a big big if!!

 

[Superman55]

Yes, he did and I do give him lots of credit for that pick. However, that and the Ivory trade for a fourth were his only good moves besides cleaning up cap space. He did a great job with that but some of the moves he made to clear space were no brainers.

You have to laugh though when people think he did such a great job with the cap by figuring out Sanchez and Santonio Holmes were over paid and needed to be cut. I guess some people have low expectations on jets GMs. It didn't take a capologist to figure out Sanchez and Holmes needed to go.

he freed up all this cap room by moving on from Cro, Revis, Sanchez, and Holmes and never really replacing them despite having 20 draft picks and $50+ mill in cap money to spend...wow, we have all this cap room and no players, brilliant!

Rich Kotite was Jets coach and GM for 2 years and after that it was obvious he needed to go. I'll never understnd the people who feel they needed year 3 of Kotite 2.0 (Idzik) as our GM to know for sure if he sucked.

People want to act like its intellectually superior to want year 3 of Kotite to know if he sucked for sure or not...yes, because being made to look like a dummy a 3rd year is wise...

 

[jetfandreamer]

How scared would you be with Idzik making the sixth pick this year?

Noone is upset about his pick of Sheldon Richardson........at the time there were, whether Rex had a hand in it or not is not important..Idzik had to sign off on it

 

[hobson54]

Yes, he did and I do give him lots of credit for that pick. However, that and the Ivory trade for a fourth were his only good moves besides cleaning up cap space. He did a great job with that but some of the moves he made to clear space were no brainers.

i don't think idzik's early picks were bad picks. at the time, most were pretty well lauded, at least on our old board. milliner was the consensus top CB in that draft, and despite a bunch of injuries, never missed a game in college. he was the top CB in college that year and was a candidate for numerous defensive awards. richardson, who was probably the pick that raised the most eyebrows at the time, was a home run pick. geno, at the time, was considered the top QB in the draft, and taking him in the 2nd round was widely applauded. personally i would have hated taking him in the 1st, but thought it was a good pick in the 2nd given the need for a QB. last year, most people on our old board were happy with pryor (top safety on the board) and amaro (record-setting pass catching TE). i recall a certain poster saying how pryor was his 1B pick and would be a monster safety and compared amaro to jason witten.

so i don't think the early picks were where idzik failed. it was the later rounds which really caused a lot of troubles. now sure, some will say that geno didn't work out and milliner can't say on the field, and that's fair criticism. but at the time of the draft, very few knocked those 5 round 1-2 picks. at least going by our old board, including some here who like to be revisionist in their criticism while forgetting about the slurp-fest they had at the time

in the end, idzik failed and was rightfully fired. i'm happy with the new coaching staff and front office, and am excited about the future. but i think there's a bit of revisionist history in this piling on, especially with respect to the picks made in rounds 1 and 2 the last couple of years.

 

[Superman55]

it's funny, because for a time, you loved the draft picks of geno smith, calvin pryor, jace amaro and even dexter mcdougle. so i guess for a time, you were in love with rosanne barr, mama june (not even sure who that is) and...apparently...cy's left toe...

I liked their potential, just like I liked Mark Sanchez's and Kyle Wilson's potential when we drafted them. If they dont play to their potential, like say Stephen Hill, is it okay for me to want to move on after the first date/rookie contract? is it okay to say I was okay with the pick at the time but they obviously are not adjusting well to the NFL game? Guess not.

Oh, and Mama June:

 

[Superman55]

i don't think idzik's early picks were bad picks. at the time, most were pretty well lauded, at least on our old board. milliner was the consensus top CB in that draft, and despite a bunch of injuries, never missed a game in college. he was the top CB in college that year and was a candidate for numerous defensive awards. richardson, who was probably the pick that raised the most eyebrows at the time, was a home run pick. geno, at the time, was considered the top QB in the draft, and taking him in the 2nd round was widely applauded. personally i would have hated taking him in the 1st, but thought it was a good pick in the 2nd given the need for a QB. last year, most people on our old board were happy with pryor (top safety on the board) and amaro (record-setting pass catching TE). i recall a certain poster saying how pryor was his 1B pick and would be a monster safety and compared amaro to jason witten.

so i don't think the early picks were where idzik failed. it was the later rounds which really caused a lot of troubles. now sure, some will say that geno didn't work out and milliner can't say on the field, and that's fair criticism. but at the time of the draft, very few knocked those 5 round 1-2 picks. at least going by our old board, including some here who like to be revisionist in their criticism while forgetting about the slurp-fest they had at the time

in the end, idzik failed and was rightfully fired. i'm happy with the new coaching staff and front office, and am excited about the future. but i think there's a bit of revisionist history in this piling on, especially with respect to the picks made in rounds 1 and 2 the last couple of years.

I bet that poster was handsome, and Amaro still has jason Witten potential and if anyone can get it out of him, its Gaily.

 

[hobson54]

I liked their potential, just like I liked Mark Sanchez's and Kyle Wilson's potential when we drafted them. If they dont play to their potential, like say Stephen Hill, is it okay for me to want to move on after the first date/rookie contract? is it okay to say I was okay with the pick at the time but they obviously are not adjusting well to the NFL game? Guess not.

kind of like some saying people were ok with idzik at the time, but obviously he did not adjust to the GM role and it's time to move on???

 

[Superman55]

kind of like some saying people were ok with idzik at the time, but obviously he did not adjust to the GM role and it's time to move on???

...but you would be okay if Idzik was still the GM. I would not be okay if Stephen Hill was still the starting WR of the new york jets going into 2015. There is a difference from being okay with another year of Kotite, and truly feeling like 2 years is enough of Kotite. You can admit you were okay with year 3 of Kotite, I mean idzik, right?

PS - you never commented on how cute Mama June is.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

it's funny, because for a time, you loved the draft picks of geno smith, calvin pryor, jace amaro and even dexter mcdougle. so i guess for a time, you were in love with rosanne barr, mama june (not even sure who that is) and...apparently...cy's left toe...

Selective criticism. I love how Milliner's already been judged a bust. This reinforces my stance on the impatience of this fan base.

And yes, interesting how players like Aboushi, Pryor and Amaro weren't mentioned in this criticism of Idzik. Wait, let me guess, Pryor's a bust, too, right? After one year being thown into a starter's role?

This "Idzik apologist" and "those who love Idzik" commentary is a misrepresentation of those who defended him against the torches and pitchforks mob who were so blinded by their all-out hatred of the guy, they couldn't see the forest for the trees. Blaming Idzik was easier than Bradway, the entire scouting department, or anyone else. Classic boogeyman syndrome.

And I say this as someone who ultimately agreed that it was probably time to start over and replace the entire top end: GM, scouting, and HC.

 

[Superman55]

Selective criticism. I love how Milliner's already been judged a bust. This reinforces my stance on the impatience of this fan base.

And yes, interesting how players like Aboushi, Pryor and Amaro weren't mentioned in this criticism of Idzik. Wait, let me guess, Pryor's a bust, too, right? After one year being thown into a starter's role?

This "Idzik apologist" and "those who love Idzik" commentary is a misrepresentation of those who defended him against the torches and pitchforks mob who were so blinded by their all-out hatred of the guy, they couldn't see the forest for the trees. Blaming Idzik was easier than Bradway, the entire scouting department, or anyone else. Classic boogeyman syndrome.

And I say this as someone who ultimately agreed that it was probably time to start over and replace the entire top end: GM, scouting, and HC.

Classic boogeyman syndrome? That just tells me you're not a boss. You are responsible for the output of your personnel, even if they performed the act, if the department under performs, you are under performing. if Bradway is failing, Idzik is failing. That's what a team is about. Idzik is the boss, and responsible for the output of his department, the output was poor, he takes the ax. It's that simple.

 

[Pointdexter]

i don't think idzik's early picks were bad picks. at the time, most were pretty well lauded, at least on our old board. milliner was the consensus top CB in that draft, and despite a bunch of injuries, never missed a game in college. he was the top CB in college that year and was a candidate for numerous defensive awards. richardson, who was probably the pick that raised the most eyebrows at the time, was a home run pick. geno, at the time, was considered the top QB in the draft, and taking him in the 2nd round was widely applauded. personally i would have hated taking him in the 1st, but thought it was a good pick in the 2nd given the need for a QB. last year, most people on our old board were happy with pryor (top safety on the board) and amaro (record-setting pass catching TE). i recall a certain poster saying how pryor was his 1B pick and would be a monster safety and compared amaro to jason witten.

so i don't think the early picks were where idzik failed. it was the later rounds which really caused a lot of troubles. now sure, some will say that geno didn't work out and milliner can't say on the field, and that's fair criticism. but at the time of the draft, very few knocked those 5 round 1-2 picks. at least going by our old board, including some here who like to be revisionist in their criticism while forgetting about the slurp-fest they had at the time

in the end, idzik failed and was rightfully fired. i'm happy with the new coaching staff and front office, and am excited about the future. but i think there's a bit of revisionist history in this piling on, especially with respect to the picks made in rounds 1 and 2 the last couple of years.

In fairness, this is a Jets fan's board and you're going to see people cheering and looking at the positive during draft time. That's always going to be overwhelmingly the case no matter who the players picked are.

I'm a fan as well but I do my best to try to look at these things objectively (easier said than done). I know you archive a lot of stuff and you can go back to those picks to see what i have always felt is objective criticism. I didn't like Milliner and I hated the Geno pick. In fairness, I also didn't like the Richardson pick, not because I didn't think he could play, but I didn't see how he fit or how he was more valuable than a desperately needed offensive weapon for Mark.

I've been critical of Idzik's drafts from the jump. He screwed up both of them. I have always loved the way he approached the cap. He gets killed for not overpaying for the Cromartie's and Revis and Sean Jackson, etc. But he made smart moves in that dept with an eye on the future. He wanted to bring in character and team-first guys, at cap friendly numbers. In that way he was spot on. His scouting dept and choices on draft day (the lifeblood of the franchise) was beyond awful though, and that rightfully cost him his job.

 

[hobson54]

...but you would be okay if Idzik was still the GM. I would not be okay if Stephen Hill was still the starting WR of the new york jets going into 2015. There is a difference from being okay with another year of Kotite, and truly feeling like 2 years is enough of Kotite. You can admit you were okay with year 3 of Kotite, I mean idzik, right?

PS - you never commented on how cute Mama June is.

as last season's debacle continued to unfold, i jumped off the idzik train. well technically i wasn't really all aboard the train, more just that i thought, generally speaking, 2 years is too soon to properly evaluate a GM. but by the end of the year, i agreed he needed to go and am glad they moved on.

so no, i did not want year 3 of kotite/idzik, no matter how many times you create this invention in your own mind.

as to mama jones, i wish there was someway to unsee that...

 

[Superman55]

as last season's debacle continued to unfold, i jumped off the idzik train. well technically i wasn't really all aboard the train, more just that i thought, generally speaking, 2 years is too soon to properly evaluate a GM. but by the end of the year, i agreed he needed to go and am glad they moved on.

so no, i did not want year 3 of kotite/idzik, no matter how many times you create this invention in your own mind.

as to mama jones, i wish there was someway to unsee that...

This is my favorite response from you on the subject...mostly because of the Mama June comment. Some picture make you want to set your eyes on fire, I know.

 

[hobson54]

In fairness, this is a Jets fan's board and you're going to see people cheering and looking at the positive during draft time. That's always going to be overwhelmingly the case no matter who the players picked are.

I'm a fan as well but I do my best to try to look at these things objectively (easier said than done). I know you archive a lot of stuff and you can go back to those picks to see what i have always felt is objective criticism. I didn't like Milliner and I hated the Geno pick. In fairness, I also didn't like the Richardson pick, not because I didn't think he could play, but I didn't see how he fit or how he was more valuable than a desperately needed offensive weapon for Mark.

I've been critical of Idzik's drafts from the jump. He screwed up both of them. I have always loved the way he approached the cap. He gets killed for not overpaying for the Cromartie's and Revis and Sean Jackson, etc. But he made smart moves in that dept with an eye on the future. He wanted to bring in character and team-first guys, at cap friendly numbers. In that way he was spot on. His scouting dept and choices on draft day (the lifeblood of the franchise) was beyond awful though, and that rightfully cost him his job.

point - you are one of my favorite posters. you call them like you see them, and i have tons of respect for your opinions and especially your knowledge of the college game. i didn't say these picks were unanimously lauded, just that the consensus (imo) on our old board was that they were good picks. you are definitely right that there is some level of home team cheer-leading during the draft.

my perhaps not so veiled comments were mostly directed at certain poster(s) who are leading the pitchfork and torch brigade so soon after slurping the same picks a year (or 2) ago. 55 was geno smith's biggest fan for a year and a half, and now idzik is an idiot for drafting him in the 1st place. i understand opinions can change, and that makes sense as more evidence is built on whether or not a pick is good. but the same guy who is bashing idzik relentlessly is also one who applauded so many of his moves.

you've always been steadfast in your opinions, and are humble enough to admit the times where you were wrong (i think it's happened once or twice...lol). you were critical of both of idzik's drafts, and reading your criticisms definitely made me re-think some of my prior positions given the amount of respect i have for you and your opinions.