2006 - Troy Smith
2006 - Troy Smith
tebow won the heisman in 2007
2006 - troy smith - 5th round
2003 - jason white - undrafted
2001 - eric crouch - drafted in 3rd round but not as a QB
2000 - chris weinke - 4th round
1996 - danny weurfel - 4th round
1993 - charlie ward - undrafted (drafted by the knicks)
1992 - gino torreta - 7th round
Very interesting. This shows teams do sometimes see the weaknesses. But the large number of busts shows it isn't a great percentage of the time.
And Mariota's performance in the championship game reminds me of Testaverde's performance in his bowl game. Somehow, though, the Bucs seem to not have factored that into their pick. I hope the Jets factor Mariota's championship play into their decision if he happen to fall to 6.
Jason White was my next one...but Troy Smith was more recent.
what i'm saying is that teams evaluate the player based on their abilities, not on winning a heisman trophy. despite how their careers have turned out, it's hard to argue against using a high pick on palmer, RGIII, newton or bradford, fellow heisman winners. and yes, i will grant you that tebow, leinart and manzeil were all drafted way too high. those, along with my list above, covers all heisman QB winners since 1992 (excluding of course winston and mariota, who have yet to be drafted or play a snap in the nfl).
as to mariota's performance in the title game, that is certainly fair grounds for criticism. i know my initial reaction was to be scared off after that game. that is on field performance, not awards picked up while wearing a suit.
It looks like we may have reached a point of agreement. So, the Jets should lay off of Mariota if he falls to them at 6?
This right here. A lot will depend on how we do in FA but it would be hard to pass him up if he is there. Maybe that's just what the Jets are hoping for and someone offers them a big deal.
The other concern of course is if someone jumps in front of them and they get nothing. No QB no extra picks. To me this is the worst case.
If we keep waiting for the absolute sure thing at Qb, we'll likely never make any progress as a franchise. Can't miss prospects like Manning/Luck are always going to go first overall. What are the odds that we would be terrible enough in that particular season to grab such a player? The days of Qb's dropping(unless there are serious character/injury concerns) are over. Seeing another Brady situation isn't too likely either. You have to take a risk if you need a qb. If Mariota is there at 6, and there is no blockbuster trade on the table for us, we have to take him. He would have the most upside of any of the remaining qb's. We'd have to trust our coaching staff to develop him properly. Waiting for 2016....2017...2018 draft to finally have a shot at a qb, isn't a sound plan. 2016 isn't looking like a great crop as it is, and we'd have to be worse this year than we were in 2014 just to have a shot at the top qb in the class. I could care less about the Heisman as well. Mariota has the tools to be a successful qb and supposedly off the charts intangibles.
So, you would not be worried that if he does fall to us, 5 other teams would not have taken him? And no team behind us would have traded up to get him? And his play in the championship game?
As for what is a sound plan, I think using a season with a weak QB crop to fill your team's many other holes is a very sound plan. And no where have I said the Jets should wait for an absolute sure thing. As Ben Franklin said, the only sure things are death and taxes.
How many teams passed on Big Ben? Aaron Rogers? I don't base my opinions(nor do I believe the Jets will) on what other teams do. How many teams passed on Revis in 2007? Or Richardson in 2013? It's irrelevant what other teams do. If our personnel people feel that Mariota has the ability to be a top 12 qb, they should take him. Outside of the Titans, every team picking 2-5 has a young qb that they are invested in. Some, would even say the Titans do as well. As for trading up ahead of the Jets.......... the trade Washington made in 2012 for RG3 wouldn't get it done for Cleveland/Philly. They would be jumping up much higher and Mariota isn't a sure thing like Luck. The cost would be too prohibitive. Like I mentioned, next year's overall qb class looks weak as well. When should we try to get a young qb to develop? Do we just continue to win 6-8 games with Geno or a Ryan Fitzpatrick type?
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ucrenegade
Guest
fitzpatrick will win more than 8 games he knows the system the only reason buffalo did not win more is because there defense sucked with him at QB he had no help at all and he still was a top QB in buffalo.
Give him a defense he has more experience now and knows chan and his system and you could easily have a 10 game winner.
Give him a defense he has more experience now and knows chan and his system and you could easily have a 10 game winner.
I could see that, but he'd still be just a bridge qb instead of a long term answer.
It is that very weakness of QB choices that leads me to say not to pick Mariota. And the lack of available QB's may just say there is no young QB to draft and nurture. And if there are none, you don't waste a pick on the hopes that guy will work out. It is possible to get to the SB without a young guy that your team has nurtured. Remember, Vinny got us to the AFC champ game even though he was no elite QB and was not nurtured by us. And I think we could have reached the SB with him the next year if he hadn't gone down. And then there is the case of Kurt Warner. Another "old man" who was playing arena football before coming to the Rams and winning a SB.
In short, if there are no young QB's available, build the rest of your team with your draft picks. Then rely on the FO and CS to come up with a serviceable QB who just might get you to the SB. And I'm not ready yet to give up on Geno.
i have long said that this is where scouting will come into play. i won't pretend to be able to scout a player based on one game. you should look at his entire body of work, not one game where he was down 3 of his top weapons due to injury and suspension.
maybe this is a cop-out answer, but it will come down to what macc and his scouts think of him. they should look at his entire body of work, not just the championship game.
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ucrenegade
Guest
that is the point if we don't find a long term answer, ie bradford, foles type then having fitzy for 2 years while looking is not a bad deal.
He would most likely have to restructure his deal so he wouldn't kill our cap and we can either look for possible fa qb's and draft next year and beyond till we find something.
Then even when we find something I would rather have fitzy as my number 2 than geno.
I understand your point, but I just think that with the way the game is changing(qb driven league as opposed to when Vinny played and I think scouts are more aware of qb's then ever before which is why I wouldn't expect another Brady/Warner occurrence), you need to develop a young qb to have championship aspirations. From everything that I've heard prior to the Combine(and reinforced at the Combine), Mariota has off the charts intangibles. For the qb position that carries enormous weight. With the rookie wage scale, absent a blockbuster trade, I think he's worth the risk.
And you're not worried about the possibility that they may look at Mariota through rose-colored glasses and rate him too high because of the Heisman? Do you think there is a chance that any of those teams who drafted Heisman QB's who were busts using high picks may have done so for that reason?
Sometimes I wonder if Cimini and Mehta have a good cop/ bad cop thing worked out ahead of time. So, after endlessly bashing Geno for almost two years, including in YESTERDAY'S Daily News, Mehta now says that Geno could possibly turn things around under Gailey.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...e=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...e=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter
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ucrenegade
Guest
I am not mac knows one thing and that is scouting he has been doing it for 20 something years, this is not a tanny or idzick type GM this is a man who has been there done that found good players everywhere in the draft in all aspects whether it be stars, starters, or just good depth players he has done it all.