IS it Deja Vu all over again?

J

Jetsfanatic

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http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-j...reliving-the-old-pete-carroll-nightmare-sadly

Cimini

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The debacle that unfolded Saturday was reminiscent of a long-ago Christmas Eve in 1994.

The coach was Pete Carroll, and he got whacked after only one season because a couple of knuckleheads -- James Hasty and Brian Washington -- infected the locker room with their toxic attitude, creating a perception that the team had quit on Carroll. The New York Jets were awful down the stretch, culminating with an ugly loss in Houston on Dec. 24. Owner Leon Hess overreacted and fired Carroll, who has done quite nicely for himself.

The same scenario is playing out for the current Jets, as Todd Bowles -- considered a rising star only a year ago -- is getting buried by a talent-thin team that seemingly isn't fighting for him. Not only did they get embarrassed by the New England Patriots, 41-3, but they pointed fingers after the game, with some players questioning the effort. The locker room appears divided, with a couple of so-called stars -- Brandon Marshall and Sheldon Richardson -- in the forefront of the turmoil.


With infighting now public, there are parallels between the Jets' decision to fire Pete Carroll after the 1994 season and what Todd Bowles now faces. EPA/MATT CAMPBELL
Unwritten rule No. 1 in the NFL: If you want to get your coach fired, start bickering with each other and make comments about the team not trying hard enough. The players probably didn't do it on purpose, but they put Bowles squarely on the hot seat with one game remaining in this rotten season. If Bowles gets sacked, it'll be because of Saturday's mess -- on and off the field.

Richardson, who should've been grateful he was allowed to play a week after his Snapchat fiasco, called out Marshall in the locker room. He went public with a simmering personal feud, creating another headache for Bowles, whose entire body ached in the aftermath of a kidney and gall-bladder attack.

Wait, there was more. Leonard Williams, the team's most promising star, said "guys weren't ready to play" and were "going through the motions." Muhammad Wilkerson basically echoed Williams' sentiment. Imagine: Wilkerson made an impassioned speech before the game, imploring his teammates to win it for Bowles, who left a hospital to coach the game.

If they were inspired by Bowles' toughness, it sure didn't show.

Is the locker room dissension widespread? No, but a few bad apples can create the wrong perception. That happened in '94, and it cost Carroll his job.

A couple of weeks ago, Bowles appeared safe, but he lost by 21 and 38 points to the Dolphins and Patriots, respectively. Nothing irks owner Woody Johnson more than losing badly to division rivals. The Jets (4-11) were non-competitive against the mighty Patriots. Eight of 11 starters on offense began the season as backups. They had no chance. Still, a 38-point loss is "inexcusable," as Bowles called it.

Johnson didn't even make the game. Family obligation, the team said.

Now what?

If Johnson fires Bowles after only two seasons, he'd cast himself and the organization in an unflattering light. He'd be known as an owner who bails out at the first sign of adversity, and good luck trying to attract a top head-coaching candidate willing to work in that environment.

Johnson is about to make one of the biggest decisions in his 16 years of ownership. He can be a strong leader and recommit to Bowles and general manager Mike Maccagnan, expressing dissatisfaction with 2016 but also showing he's a man of his convictions. After all, the Jets won 10 games last season; it's not as if MacBowles is a two-year bust.

Or Johnson can make himself into an early-days George Steinbrenner, impatient and cartoonish, tossing Bowles and/or Maccagnan into the dumpster marked "John Idzik." Unless Johnson can pull Nick Saban out of a magic hat, he won't find a savior out there.

Hess got antsy 22 years ago, dumping Carroll if favor of Rich Kotite. How'd that work out?

Bowles is having a rough year, but he has been undermined by horrific quarterback play, an old roster and an inordinate number of injuries. He's well-respected around the league, and you can bet he'd get interviews for head-coaching positions if the Jets put him on the market.

Now Johnson has reached a crossroads in his ownership. He can change the perception by staying the course or doing what his predecessor did all those years ago.

For Pete's sake, Woody, don't be swayed by the noise and few meaningless games.
 

NewMFS62

Weeb's Mentor
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We were changing stations and saw the Yule Log. My wife said "That has more action than the Jets offense".
(loosening collar) Tough crowd. Tough crowd.

Later
 

jetgreen13

founding JFU member..
Jet Fanatics
nothing about that "devil's advocate" piece swayed me to believe bowles is the next carroll.....

am i alone with that, JFU??
 

SackExchange

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nothing about that "devil's advocate" piece swayed me to believe bowles is the next carroll.....

am i alone with that, JFU??

No, you are definitely not alone. But if you look back, there were few, if any, Jets fans who thought the best course of action was to hang onto Carroll.
 

jetgreen13

founding JFU member..
Jet Fanatics
No, you are definitely not alone. But if you look back, there were few, if any, Jets fans who thought the best course of action was to hang onto Carroll.
carroll had/has an almost child like glee about football.. i did enjoy it when he was here, i just wasn't sure that style would fly with grown men long term..

kind of like rick pitino's pro coaching career.....
 

SackExchange

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carroll had/has an almost child like glee about football.. i did enjoy it when he was here, i just wasn't sure that style would fly with grown men long term..

kind of like rick pitino's pro coaching career.....

I always thought his personality was best suited for the college game, and he certainly had success there. I was honestly surprised when he became a seriously legit NFL HC.

Plus, you have to factor in that this was the franchise that dealt with the Lou Holtz fiasco.
 

soj

retired Veteran
Jet Fanatics
Lets see didn't Mr S win World Championships? With all due respect to Mr C and his article... the team - maybe playing hard (which i doubt) but they are undisciplined, not accountable (at least it looks like they are not held to any standard), play uninspired in just about evey game, etc. that goes to coaching and plays attitude towards a coach...

It would not surprise me to see TB be kept as a coach but if any of you saw the AZ vs Hawks game yesterday you would have seen the difference between a GOOD HC who gets his team ready to play even when they have a lost season and one that CAN NOT... remember his own words in his pressers this week... I don't know whats wrong!

If that is not an indictment of his own shortcomings then maybe I am just been jaded by my own desire to watch a team be competitive...
 
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jetgreen13

founding JFU member..
Jet Fanatics
I always thought his personality was best suited for the college game, and he certainly had success there. I was honestly surprised when he became a seriously legit NFL HC.

Plus, you have to factor in that this was the franchise that dealt with the Lou Holtz fiasco.
agreed.. but as i'm sure you will agree, his success in the pros speaks for itself at this point.. carroll was lightning in a bottle..

that said, absolutely nothing about bowles public persona, or otherwise tells me he enjoys being a HC.. frankly, it seems to me, the exact opposite..

aside from completely reinventing himself, (good luck waiting for that) what are the chances he ends up having a carroll type career some where else??

i'm quite comfortable rolling the dice he won't..
 
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J

Jetsfanatic

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I would only fire Bowles for a proven commodity such as Coughlin, Harbaugh, Gruden, etc..
I don't know if firing him for another coordinator is worth it, as I would just as soon give him another season.
 

SackExchange

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agreed.. but as i'm sure you will agree, his success in the pros speaks for itself at this point.. carroll was lightning in a bottle..

that said, absolutely nothing about bowles public persona, or otherwise tells me he enjoys being a HC.. frankly, it seems to me, the exact opposite..

aside from completely reinventing himself, (good luck waiting for that) what are the chances he ends up having a carroll type career some where else??

i'm quite comfortable rolling the dice he won't..

That's fair. I don't see evidence he will succeed as a HC, either. The same has been true, though, for several guys. Giants fans wanted to dump Parcells. The Browns did dump Belichick. The Jets and Pats both got rid of Carroll.

As Jetsfanatic said, though, why fire him for another unproven coordinator? Isn't that basically what you got in Bowles, an excellent coordinator and a question mark at HC? The only coordinators I would look at have HC experience, Haley and McDaniels.
 
M

Mainejet

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No, you are definitely not alone. But if you look back, there were few, if any, Jets fans who thought the best course of action was to hang onto Carroll.

The only reason why firing Carroll was such a poor decision is because of who replaced him. Firing Carroll would have been a brilliant decision if Leon had hired a better HC than Rich Kotite.

Same thing here. Firing Bowles is the only right thing to do, but it will inevitably be judged success or failure wise based on who Woody hires to replace Bowles.
 

butterscotch

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Did I write this LOL.....Give TB a team ..I hope it is the Jets or if not back to AZ when our coach retires
 

TebowCan'tThrow

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I wanted to give him a chance, but the team has no desire, no fire and no preparation. They have become the worst franchise in the NFL. If the defense which is his specialty was performing then he would have value. At this point he is JAG and any coordinator in the league could produce the same results. I hope the Bills embarrass the Jets to make it 3 in a row.
 

Bigmoe

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I hope the Bills embarrass the Jets to make it 3 in a row.

Well,let's see
The Jets are home facing a coach they fired and who is rumored to be fired after his two year stay.
Jets are +6
Rex will get his players to show up where Todd will not.
Yes I see more of an embarrassment .
I was able to sell my 2 $140 ticket for $50 ea. What a great deal.
Still can't sell the parking pass
Guess the 3 people going already have one.
image.jpg
 

Jets8599

Priority Free Agent
Jet Fanatics
Just curious, what enticed Parcells to come to the jets after a 1-15 season? Was it complete control?
 
M

Mainejet

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Just curious, what enticed Parcells to come to the jets after a 1-15 season? Was it complete control?

Yes. Parcells was in NE the year prior and complained privately about not having complete control. Kraft hired Bobby Grier to be the GM essentially firing Parcells from that role, but keeping him as the HC? As Parcells so eloquently on an ESPN interview I remember seeing at the time, "There's just no way that the owner of the football team is going to tell me that he knows more about what it takes to win than I do. That's like me telling the board of governors that I know more about what it takes to have a healthy economy than they do. It just simply isn't true."

Hess apparently already knew that Kotite was going to fire himself at seasons end, so some sort of private agreement was made before Parcells even got done in NE? The speculation had been running rampant long before the season even ended. Kraft started bitching about compensation because Parcells was under contract with the Patsies. Eventually, Tagliabue stepped in and negotiated a deal for Parcells to coach the Jets. As I recall, a 3rd in 1997, a 2nd in 1998, and a 1st in 1999?
 

Bigmoe

Happily Confused
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Just curious, what enticed Parcells to come to the jets after a 1-15 season? Was it complete control?

Yup
His famous quote
"If I'm going to be asked to cook the meal, I'd like to be able to pick the groceries."
 
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