Jets QB's, Past and Present and Franchise or Not and near misses!

[jets82]

Jets faithful, we are yearning for what all teams that don't have one are yearning for, a franchise QB. Seems like this is one of the hardest things to come by. Like winning the lottery or being happily married or driving drunk and never getting caught. It's a possibility it will happen but VERY VERY VERY slim it will. Makes you wonder how teams like the 49ers, Packers and Colts manage to get so many. Or how the Patriots luck out with a 6th round pick in that bastard Brady? So lets see, we've had Broadway Joe and that would be about it that we could truly consider a franchise QB. Ofcourse we can say Richard Todd and Ken O'brien to a certain extent but can we really? Guess we can debate whether they were or not, all a matter of opinion.

Then you have the near misses like Pennington and that was mainly because of injury. Otherwise, IMO we would of had our next franchise guy in Chad. Could Ray Lucas have been a possibility or was he just a stop gap guy? We also have had our revamped vets that stopped by for a year or two like Vinny and Brett but obviously that didn't last long. Last, we have our pure disappointments, whether drafted or vets like Neil Odonnell, Sanchez and Geno. That would be about it that I can think of, so where do we go from here? Is Petty the answer, do they resign Fitz and hope that average QB can be the answer for another year or two or do we draft another QB this year and let them all fight it out? I'm tired of this fly by night BS we keep going through so when does it change Jets faithful?

 

[butterscotch]

Jets faithful, we are yearning for what all teams that don't have one are yearning for, a franchise QB. Seems like this is one of the hardest things to come by. Like winning the lottery or being happily married or driving drunk and never getting caught. It's a possibility it will happen but VERY VERY VERY slim it will. Makes you wonder how teams like the 49ers, Packers and Colts manage to get so many. Or how the Patriots luck out with a 6th round pick in that bastard Brady? So lets see, we've had Broadway Joe and that would be about it that we could truly consider a franchise QB. Ofcourse we can say Richard Todd and Ken O'brien to a certain extent but can we really? Guess we can debate whether they were or not, all a matter of opinion.

Then you have the near misses like Pennington and that was mainly because of injury. Otherwise, IMO we would of had our next franchise guy in Chad. Could Ray Lucas have been a possibility or was he just a stop gap guy? We also have had our revamped vets that stopped by for a year or two like Vinny and Brett but obviously that didn't last long. Last, we have our pure disappointments, whether drafted or vets like Neil Odonnell, Sanchez and Geno. That would be about it that I can think of, so where do we go from here? Is Petty the answer, do they resign Fitz and hope that average QB can be the answer for another year or two or do we draft another QB this year and let them all fight it out? I'm tired of this fly by night BS we keep going through so when does it change Jets faithful?

Look the steelers stunk for years Redsox also...Steelers got rid of Johnny U & the redsox Ruth. It is hard to get it right but if you do & turn it around the good years can follow. The Cards are on the edge. The Jets are starting over again......I love TB not sure on mac but he needs time.

As far as Todd & the Big O they were ruined by Joe Walton......I have always thought he cost the jets at least one Super Bowl maybe two. He is on my hall of Shame with Woody.

They will come around someday but it takes smart moves...Draft, FA's or trade.

I think the Cards got lucky with warner but Bidwell learned from that luck & after a few years & a great GM got Palmer. Now they need to get a young QB I shall see on this one.

I see us heading into another good to great period with the Jets.....I don't like the short term plan as of today but I do like the long term......It all comes down to Woody & big mac the rest will fall in place

 

[jets82]

Look the steelers stunk for years Redsox also...Steelers got rid of Johnny U & the redsox Ruth. It is hard to get it right but if you do & turn it around the good years can follow. The Cards are on the edge. The Jets are starting over again......I love TB not sure on mac but he needs time.

As far as Todd & the Big O they were ruined by Joe Walton......I have always thought he cost the jets at least one Super Bowl maybe two. He is on my hall of Shame with Woody.

They will come around someday but it takes smart moves...Draft, FA's or trade.

I think the Cards got lucky with warner but Bidwell learned from that luck & after a few years & a great GM got Palmer. Now they need to get a young QB I shall see on this one.

I see us heading into another good to great period with the Jets.....I don't like the short term plan as of today but I do like the long term......It all comes down to Woody & big mac the rest will fall in place

Yeah you right, seems like it's takes a little bit or a lot of fate or luck also. Pats had no idea what they had in Brady until they had it, they couldn't of or they would have drafted him in the first, second round at worst. Same thing with the Cowboys and Romo or Seattle and Wilson. Sometimes it seems it just takes dumb luck to strike it rich with this QB thing. Hopefully one day we do the same, if we haven't already done it with Petty.

 

[mykcuz]

Fitz resigns, gets us to the afc championship. Maybe we get lucky. He starts 2 games the next season and breaks a leg, pretty comes in and wins 4 straight, losses 5 straight and we miss the playoffs based on tie breakers. The following spring he sprains his thumb and our 3rd round pick at qb that year leads us to an undefeated season, 5 super bowls in 5 years.

Unfortunately, in year 6,he is fatally wounded while eliminating isis from existence in the off season. We go 50 years averaging .500

But I think it's pretty obvious.

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[jets82]

Fitz resigns, gets us to the afc championship. Maybe we get lucky. He starts 2 games the next season and breaks a leg, pretty comes in and wins 4 straight, losses 5 straight and we miss the playoffs based on tie breakers. The following spring he sprains his thumb and our 3rd round pick at qb that year leads us to an undefeated season, 5 super bowls in 5 years.

Unfortunately, in year 6,he is fatally wounded while eliminating isis from existence in the off season. We go 50 years averaging .500

But I think it's pretty obvious.

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What's pretty obvious, I don't understand or are you just being a smartass?

 

[mykcuz]

What's pretty obvious, I don't understand or are you just being a smartass?

Where we go from here.

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[jets82]

Where we go from here.

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Glad you're not being a smart ass but your original message is still very unclear to me. I'm guessing you're saying that they should go with Fitz and that's fine if that's your personal opinion. I'm more looking forward to the youth movement in Petty or another rookie QB they draft this year but I do realize that's more of a pipe dream. UNFORTUNATELY!!!

 

[butterscotch]

Glad you're not being a smart ass but your original message is still very unclear to me. I'm guessing you're saying that they should go with Fitz and that's fine if that's your personal opinion. I'm more looking forward to the youth movement in Petty or another rookie QB they draft this year but I do realize that's more of a pipe dream. UNFORTUNATELY!!!

I agree with you but the jets are not hearing us LOL IMO They are doing both at the same time. I just don't like the way they are trying to win now & think it may slow down the win later wagon a little.

When I say I don't like the way they are doing it let me add a little clarified butter to this. They have a few too many vets as of today but that may change as the year moves on. The Jets in 68 brought in Bob Talamini one of the best old Guards in football. They played the kids most of the year but as the playoffs came around they saw who could cut the mustard & Started Talamini at guard & moved one of the young guns over to tackle.

It is never talked about but without that the Jets don't beat Oakland or Baltimore & win the SB


Why

Kids played all year & one out of three got worse. The other two became better players by playing more.
The Vet was well rested & Played well in the playoffs
The third guy never made it

So what I am saying is play more of the young guys now!

The old guys can still show the way

 

[jets82]

I agree with you but the jets are not hearing us LOL IMO They are doing both at the same time. I just don't like the way they are trying to win now & think it may slow down the win later wagon a little.

When I say I don't like the way they are doing it let me add a little clarified butter to this. They have a few too many vets as of today but that may change as the year moves on. The Jets in 68 brought in Bob Talamini one of the best old Guards in football. They played the kids most of the year but as the playoffs came around they saw who could cut the mustard & Started Talamini at guard & moved one of the young guns over to tackle.

It is never talked about but without that the Jets don't beat Oakland or Baltimore & win the SB


Why

Kids played all year & one out of three got worse. The other two became better players by playing more.
The Vet was well rested & Played well in the playoffs
The third guy never made it

So what I am saying is play more of the young guys now!

The old guys can still show the way

Love it, loving it and I wish the Jets of today would do that. Worked way back then, why can't it work now? Just wish I was around then to see it. Born shortly after the SB. Anyway, the youth movement needs to starts soon to help build our foundation for 5 years from now and future SB runs, Hopefully! Starting mainly at QB! Bryce has got to get on the field, they have to see what he has and what he can possibly do to decide if he has it or not and if they should move on or not from him.

 

[butterscotch]

Love it, loving it and I wish the Jets of today would do that. Worked way back then, why can't it work now? Just wish I was around then to see it. Born shortly after the SB. Anyway, the youth movement needs to starts soon to help build our foundation for 5 years from now and future SB runs, Hopefully! Starting mainly at QB! Bryce has got to get on the field, they have to see what he has and what he can possibly do to decide if he has it or not and if they should move on or not from him.

I agree but an old dog like me has to be careful at the same time LOL Times change & while history repeats itself some thing are different.

1) Woody needs to put donkeys in the seats. Players have a choice on where they go for money & to win so if a team does not show an effort you won't get many players to sign & if they do you overpay them & they show just for the money.

I am not going against myself here just pointing out that it may not be as easy now......But yes it can be done & I agree watching a bunch of kids grow is fun. Just because you win a SB every 20 to 50 years does not mean you can't enjoy many more seasons. Watching this cards team grow has been so much fun just like the late 70's Jets.

OK FOLKS SLAM ME! I deserve it but I did not like last years Jets team as players or their games that much. Win or lose they were not fun to me. Now that can change year by year I enjoyed the early Ryan years more with Sanchez & company. Why the first two years were fun with a new young QB & a young new coach etc. I am not saying I was not for my Jets it was not my type of team or players last year.

I have always said if you miss the growth years & don't enjoy the way up the SB means nothing. It is the whole package that counts......the 2011 Bruins SC means nothing to me without the whole year & the way they played. same with the 2011 BB Cards. Even last years BB cards team was amazing & they did not get past the first round but they were a team to be proud of. IMO to me Marshall & Fitz mean nothing to me. I am like Dracula I want young blood & guts on my team.

 

[jets82]

I agree but an old dog like me has to be careful at the same time LOL Times change & while history repeats itself some thing are different.

1) Woody needs to put donkeys in the seats. Players have a choice on where they go for money & to win so if a team does not show an effort you won't get many players to sign & if they do you overpay them & they show just for the money.

I am not going against myself here just pointing out that it may not be as easy now......But yes it can be done & I agree watching a bunch of kids grow is fun. Just because you win a SB every 20 to 50 years does not mean you can't enjoy many more seasons. Watching this cards team grow has been so much fun just like the late 70's Jets.

OK FOLKS SLAM ME! I deserve it but I did not like last years Jets team as players or their games that much. Win or lose they were not fun to me. Now that can change year by year I enjoyed the early Ryan years more with Sanchez & company. Why the first two years were fun with a new young QB & a young new coach etc. I am not saying I was not for my Jets it was not my type of team or players last year.

I have always said if you miss the growth years & don't enjoy the way up the SB means nothing. It is the whole package that counts......the 2011 Bruins SC means nothing to me without the whole year & the way they played. same with the 2011 BB Cards. Even last years BB cards team was amazing & they did not get past the first round but they were a team to be proud of. IMO to me Marshall & Fitz mean nothing to me. I am like Dracula I want young blood & guts on my team.

I'm with you to a certain extent. Actually all of it except for one or two facts. First I love watching Marshall and having him on the team because he is a pure beast that will make any team better. We all saw what he did last year and pretty much can carry a offense and QB no matter if their young or old. You gotta enjoy that! That's why I say he should be a first ballot HOFer. What other WR you know played with four teams and made each QB he played for look good? The QBs he played for are not HOFers IMO but, Cutler maybe HOF quality but I don't think he's a HOFer. But Marshall made them look damn good. I agree I didn't enjoy watching last years team as much but that was mainly because of Fitz. I know he's not our future and I know he's not a HOF quality QB like Vinny or sure HOFer like Favre. So to me watching Fitz with the Jets is like "Annh" I'm hoping Petty is ready to go this year and beyond and bumps Fitz and Geno off the field. Bottom line!

 

[butterscotch]

I'm with you to a certain extent. Actually all of it except for one or two facts. First I love watching Marshall and having him on the team because he is a pure beast that will make any team better. We all saw what he did last year and pretty much can carry a offense and QB no matter if their young or old. You gotta enjoy that! That's why I say he should be a first ballot HOFer. What other WR you know played with four teams and made each QB he played for look good? The QBs he played for are not HOFers IMO but, Cutler maybe HOF quality but I don't think he's a HOFer. But Marshall made them look damn good. I agree I didn't enjoy watching last years team as much but that was mainly because of Fitz. I know he's not our future and I know he's not a HOF quality QB like Vinny or sure HOFer like Favre. So to me watching Fitz with the Jets is like "Annh" I'm hoping Petty is ready to go this year and beyond and bumps Fitz and Geno off the field. Bottom line!

You bring up one point that is on my list of things to discuss...hall of fame .....Now this is my feelings on the subject Cutler & Vinnie don't belong anywhere near the hall of fame. Everyone in this day & age has great stats compared to the 30's, 40,50,60, 70,& 80,s so I judge them based on just this day & age ...If not they will all go in. Same with WR's. Brady manning go in & I will look at the others. Marshall just does nothing for me but I am the lone wolf on this one. LOL Now is he good yes he is but one of the best not in my book

 

[butterscotch]

The more I think of it Warner & Namath are the only QB's that deserve the hall on my two teams since 1964. Hart comes close & I love him but no I don't think he should be in. We need to draw the line otherwise Brees, Eli, Cutler, Rogers, Roethlisberger, Rivers & Wilson Will all be going in. Now to be fair I think by the end of their playing time Rogers & The rap__
t will go in. But we need to draw the line.

 

[jets82]

When it comes to this HOF QB and WR thing. I agree times have changed drastically. It seems in the 60's and 70's, the game was more catered to the run and the passing game was non existent it seemed. Except for certain teams and QBs like the Jets and Namath and Packers and Starr and the Steelers and Bradshaw, if I'm correct. I'm sure their may have been one or two more passing teams but that would probably be about it.

QBs and WRs truly had to have heart back then because defenses had the green light to crush them by any means necessary. The 80's the game truly changed towards passing with the 49ers, Chargers, Cowboys, Bills, Dolphins and Redskins but the rules still remained the defenses could crush QBs and skilled players at will. The 90's it appears the game started to come around to protecting QBs and skilled players more but defenses green light was still lit pretty well and clear to crush anything in its path.

Now in the 00s is when the game truly wrapped around to favoring the offense. With all this said, I can't argue anything your saying but the QBs still have to get the ball to the open man or throw them open. Let's not forget the defenses have advanced also to counter how the game has changed. True enough the game is totally offense driven but their are still great and dangerous hard hitting defenses out there. Denver and the Seahawks have proved that over the past 3-4 years.

Giants proved it by beating the high powered Pats twice. So QBs of today can still get their props as future HOFers by what they do. So can WRs like Marshall. He is just phenomenal and there's no getting around that. So show the game some love, they are not quite there of playing two hand touch or flag football. Not quite there yet!!! If that ever happens, I think or know I'll stop watching the game all together. So let's just all hope it doesn't because I'm sure we all feel the same. Lol!

 

[butterscotch]

Great post! IMO the Hall has always been the best of the best. When I look at Larry Fitz compared To Marshall I say one is an all time great & the other is great today. Now is there room for both maybe. I don't just go by stats also.

I do look at the Goalies from the 50's & 60's & say the same thing sorry Ranger fans but Eddie G. does not belong. Hall & Plante Yes. some others maybe not.

It is not easy at all How klecko does not make the NFL hall is just amazing when so many others get in with ??? on their backs. Larry Grantham should be in also along with Winston hill. Jim Turner should be in our ring of honor. John Elliott would have made it if his knees were not shot at 27

For the record I don't dislike Marshall at all but when I look beyond the stats I am not as impressed with him. The X factor. But again I am the lone wolf & if he wins us a SB I will be the first to give him a hug LOL.

Jet hall of fame WR's Don Maynard & George Sauer if he had not retired at 28 years of age. That's it.


Getting back on topic if the Jets had good knees that year I think the Jets would have been in one more SB the 1967 game. Weeb vs Lombardi would have been great.

 

[jets82]

Great post! IMO the Hall has always been the best of the best. When I look at Larry Fitz compared To Marshall I say one is an all time great & the other is great today. Now is there room for both maybe. I don't just go by stats also.

I do look at the Goalies from the 50's & 60's & say the same thing sorry Ranger fans but Eddie G. does not belong. Hall & Plante Yes. some others maybe not.

It is not easy at all How klecko does not make the NFL hall is just amazing when so many others get in with ??? on their backs. Larry Grantham should be in also along with Winston hill. Jim Turner should be in our ring of honor. John Elliott would have made it if his knees were not shot at 27

For the record I don't dislike Marshall at all but when I look beyond the stats I am not as impressed with him. The X factor. But again I am the lone wolf & if he wins us a SB I will be the first to give him a hug LOL.

Jet hall of fame WR's Don Maynard & George Sauer if he had not retired at 28 years of age. That's it.


Getting back on topic if the Jets had good knees that year I think the Jets would have been in one more SB the 1967 game. Weeb vs Lombardi would have been great.

Can't argue your comparison of Fitzgerald vs. Marshall at all. We all know Fitzgerald is class personified but Marshall has had his issues. But let's put it and keep it on record that Marshall has always had issue with his mental disability that he did not know he had until after being in the league a few years. He's gotten help and continues to get it because if I'm correct, there's no cure for his condition but he's been 100% better since his diagnosis. For all these guys you mentioning or majority of the old timers, I either don't know them or was to young to remember them, lol.

 

[butterscotch]

Can't argue your comparison of Fitzgerald vs. Marshall at all. We all know Fitzgerald is class personified but Marshall has had his issues. But let's put it and keep it on record that Marshall has always had issue with his mental disability that he did not know he had until after being in the league a few years. He's gotten help and continues to get it because if I'm correct, there's no cure for his condition but he's been 100% better since his diagnosis. For all these guys you mentioning or majority of the old timers, I either don't know them or was to young to remember them, lol.

I feel for anyone that has a problem & he has but guys like Jerry Rice should get in the hall & in this case he is. I am afraid all the Rec's from the last ten years are going to get in lol. No not the K man

 

[jets82]

I feel for anyone that has a problem & he has but guys like Jerry Rice should get in the hall & in this case he is. I am afraid all the Rec's from the last ten years are going to get in lol. No not the K man

I'm looking forward to BMarsh HOF induction and I hope he chooses to acknowledge the Jets as his primary team with success. Now if and when that happens, which QB will he most remember sharing that with? Hopefully it ain't Fitz. Would be nice if it's Petty because obviously that will show that Petty has it to be a success and you can only assume that that will take place this year. Marshall might play another 2-3 years at most. He's already lining his career up after football in television, so it won't be long. But back to our original thread topic here. Jets career QBs franchise wise has been VERY FEW and far in between. They have to establish one sooner or later for this team to start winning SBs.

 

[butterscotch]

I'm looking forward to BMarsh HOF induction and I hope he chooses to acknowledge the Jets as his primary team with success. Now if and when that happens, which QB will he most remember sharing that with? Hopefully it ain't Fitz. Would be nice if it's Petty because obviously that will show that Petty has it to be a success and you can only assume that that will take place this year. Marshall might play another 2-3 years at most. He's already lining his career up after football in television, so it won't be long. But back to our original thread topic here. Jets career QBs franchise wise has been VERY FEW and far in between. They have to establish one sooner or later for this team to start winning SBs.

I will take sooner LOL.....If the Jets win a SB with Marshall I will be very happy I hope we do

 

[jets82]

I will take sooner LOL.....If the Jets win a SB with Marshall I will be very happy I hope we do

That makes two of us. That's gotta be painful with the stats he's put up over 10-11 years and never making the playoffs, WOW! I'm routing for him and hope he wins one with us but ten fold more importantly, I'm hoping our Jets win many of them. No matter who's playing. Sure would be nice to have a Bowles and Petty multiple SB combo like Belichick and Brady has going. Man did the Pats luck out or what!