Mac - Needs a TD Tonight

[mydogisajetsfan]

I agree. If every pick this year does not make it to Canton, I want Maccagnan shoved into the harbor on a wooden raft and given a viking funeral!

What??? Typical silly overreaction. Did every pick I noted in the three examples become hall of famers? Of course not. Are all three examples of reasonable and attainable expectations? Of course they are. Are all three teams well run and among the elite teams in the NFL? Yes, that's why they're not unreasonable expectations.

Let's also note that I love the Lee pick. That's one starter already. If we take Martin and Fackrell or Correa that will be three starters by end of 2016.

Let me use your extreme logic. Ok, it's perfectly acceptable to find one borderline backup in the entire 2016 draft. There you go.

 

[SackExchange]

What??? Typical silly overreaction. Did every pick I noted in the three examples become hall of famers? Of course not. Are all three examples of reasonable and attainable expectations? Of course they are. Are all three teams well run and among the elite teams in the NFL? Yes, that's why they're not unreasonable expectations.

Let's also note that I love the Lee pick. That's one starter already. If we take Martin and Fackrell or Correa that will be three starters by end of 2016.

Let me use your extreme logic. Ok, it's perfectly acceptable to find one borderline backup in the entire 2016 draft. There you go.

Except no, I never said anything about one borderline backup.

My point is this: When you laud the job Maccagnan has done, and then say he "has" to hit a home run in the draft, you are basically giving him zero room for error. Every GM, every team, has bad drafts, or bad signings. My concern is that because Jets fans are, well, Jets fans, Maccagnan will never be allowed to make a single mistake on a guy. People will call for his head, all in the name of "raising the bar."

That could put pressure on Woody to make a change, rather than allowing for continuity. The teams that are almost always at the top have great continuity. Jets fans are far too impatient to allow for that.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

Except no, I never said anything about one borderline backup.

My point is this: When you laud the job Maccagnan has done, and then say he "has" to hit a home run in the draft, you are basically giving him zero room for error. Every GM, every team, has bad drafts, or bad signings. My concern is that because Jets fans are, well, Jets fans, Maccagnan will never be allowed to make a single mistake on a guy. People will call for his head, all in the name of "raising the bar."

That could put pressure on Woody to make a change, rather than allowing for continuity. The teams that are almost always at the top have great continuity. Jets fans are far too impatient to allow for that.

Are you seriously saying you're ok if Macaggnan doesn't have an outstanding draft? I'm not. Now before you go apoplectic I'm not calling for his hanging if he doesn't kill it this weekend. But if he doesn't get several starters BY THE END OF NEXT SEASON, this team will go backwards. It's really that simple. If your patience lets you accept that then good for you.

And your logic that the problem with this team has been that fans have been too impatient and not allowed continuity is just plain wrong. Woody allowed the dreadful Bradway to pull the scouting strings for 10 years too long. He kept Schottenheimer for five years too long. He kept Tanny, Rex, et al, for too long. There was lots of continuity. Not much success. In fact, it was the fans 'impatience' that got rid of the horrendous Idzik. Thankfully.

 

[SackExchange]

Are you seriously saying you're ok if Macaggnan doesn't have an outstanding draft? I'm not. Now before you go apoplectic I'm not calling for his hanging if he doesn't kill it this weekend. But if he doesn't get several starters BY THE END OF NEXT SEASON, this team will go backwards. It's really that simple. If your patience lets you accept that then good for you.

And your logic that the problem with this team has been that fans have been too impatient and not allowed continuity is just plain wrong. Woody allowed the dreadful Bradway to pull the scouting strings for 10 years too long. He kept Schottenheimer for five years too long. He kept Tanny, Rex, et al, for too long. There was lots of continuity. Not much success. In fact, it was the fans 'impatience' that got rid of the horrendous Idzik. Thankfully.

I'm saying my severe preference is that he have a great draft. But no, I don't think that he HAS to have a great draft. I think if he has a slightly above average draft, he will be fine, as long as it is not the norm long-term.

Of course, we could just continue the revolving door, and see how that goes, rather than daring to show any patience. It's not what the top teams in the league year-in and year-out have done, but it might work for us. It hasn't so far, but let's try it. Hire a GM to implement a long-term plan, then give them two years to implement it.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

I'm saying my severe preference is that he have a great draft. But no, I don't think that he HAS to have a great draft. I think if he has a slightly above average draft, he will be fine, as long as it is not the norm long-term.

Of course, we could just continue the revolving door, and see how that goes, rather than daring to show any patience. It's not what the top teams in the league year-in and year-out have done, but it might work for us. It hasn't so far, but let's try it. Hire a GM to implement a long-term plan, then give them two years to implement it.

I guess this whole thing started because you feel I am expecting too much from Mac and this draft. I think we should expect starters from this draft especially to replace guys like Winters, Giacommini, Reilly and K.Davis/Amaro as the incumbents. I don't think it's too much to expect rookies to fill those shoes. We can agree to disagree about that.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

Expecting rookies to be starters, outside of maybe the first round pick, is unrealistic. Teams who find starters from the second round and beyond are the exception, not the rule. When you figure that half of first round picks don't live up to the hype, that decreases the odds even more.

You might find three or four EVENTUAL starters down the road, but expecting three or four starters for this coming season is nuts.

 

[SackExchange]

I guess this whole thing started because you feel I am expecting too much from Mac and this draft. I think we should expect starters from this draft especially to replace guys like Winters, Giacommini, Reilly and K.Davis/Amaro as the incumbents. I don't think it's too much to expect rookies to fill those shoes. We can agree to disagree about that.

I think you are setting the stage for criticism if Maccagnan is not perfect. You're placing an unrealistic standard on him if you are talking about an upward trajectory, as though he is not allowed to make a mistake or to have one mediocre draft.

In all fairness, I hope he meets the standards you set, because if he does, the Jets will be a championship team for years to come. It would make the Jets by far the best front office in the league, if they keep an upward trajectory and never have any missteps.

 

[Bigmoe]

Well, they punted their best pick in the draft. Just drafted Aaron Maybin again.

Maybe not punted but ......


Oh come on it's a joke
Maybe not?

 

[SackExchange]

Just a question about this thread - does it factor in the two starters who were already brought in, Brandon Marshall and Ryan Fitzpatrick, traded for in those third day picks? If so, then the Jets only need one more starter and one major contributor out of this draft. If not, then the expectation is that the 2016 draft picks would net a total of five starters and a major contributor.

 

[OCCH]

Just a question about this thread - does it factor in the two starters who were already brought in, Brandon Marshall and Ryan Fitzpatrick, traded for in those third day picks? If so, then the Jets only need one more starter and one major contributor out of this draft. If not, then the expectation is that the 2016 draft picks would net a total of five starters and a major contributor.

I know it's irrelevant, but just to make sure I have my facts straight -- wasn't Marshall LAST year's 5th and Clady this year's?

Doesn't change your point, b/c if Clady regains his former form we STOLE that trade-off . . .

 

[SackExchange]

I know it's irrelevant, but just to make sure I have my facts straight -- wasn't Marshall LAST year's 5th and Clady this year's?

Doesn't change your point, b/c if Clady regains his former form we STOLE that trade-off . . .

You may be right. I could be off on that, in which case the point is somewhat negated, though if Clady starts at LT this year, as he should, it would count toward that.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

You may be right. I could be off on that, in which case the point is somewhat negated, though if Clady starts at LT this year, as he should, it would count toward that.

For the record, I think this was a very good draft. I think Lee and Jenkins will start by year end. They give Bowles the pieces he needs to really run his defense. Davis and Pace did not fit Bowles' style. Had Mac taken Whitehair or Le'Raven Clark in the second I'd be doing cartwheels. I think Burris can be part of the rotation by year end, if not sooner.

 

[NYJETSDAN16]

Mac not only scored a TD with this draft, i feel he set up the Jets for a long time, especially combing this one with last years.

 

[SackExchange]

For the record, I think this was a very good draft. I think Lee and Jenkins will start by year end. They give Bowles the pieces he needs to really run his defense. Davis and Pace did not fit Bowles' style. Had Mac taken Whitehair or Le'Raven Clark in the second I'd be doing cartwheels. I think Burris can be part of the rotation by year end, if not sooner.

I was high on Le'Raven Clark, as well. There is potential here with the picks made.

More than anything, it shows both a solid commitment to evaluation and a long-term plan in place, which is far more than can be said of the past.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

For the record, I think this was a very good draft. I think Lee and Jenkins will start by year end. They give Bowles the pieces he needs to really run his defense. Davis and Pace did not fit Bowles' style. Had Mac taken Whitehair or Le'Raven Clark in the second I'd be doing cartwheels. I think Burris can be part of the rotation by year end, if not sooner.

I couldn't believe Whitehair lasted that long. He would've been a nice replacement for Winters. He was a great second round value pick, and probably an immediate starter.

 

[Mainejet]

Mac has impressed us all so far. He outperformed our most realistic dreams. Now comes the real work. Mac needs nothing less than a touchdown tonight. Whether he has six picks or trades for more (which I'm hoping he does), he needs to draft three starters, two backups and a special teams contributor.

Much to my chagrin, it looks like he's not moving Mo. We need a starter at LB, someone good enough to let David Harris go next year. Also need a starter at tackle allowing Mac to release Giacommini in 2017 and provide a reasonable back up for Clady going forward.

I think the key is going to be getting value (read; starters) in the second, third and fourth rounds. We cannot afford any more Ducasse's, Hill's, Clemens', Geno's, McDougle's, Winters', and the list goes on and on. To get out of this rut, we need to find starters who can contribute. Given all of our holes, we need three significant contributors in the first three rounds this weekend.

Mac must do with the draft this year what he did with free agency last year. Nothing less.

So now that the draft is complete we can all weigh in about whether if it was a TD or not?

My survey says: NO

I give Mac a C- at best in this draft.

The 1st round pick is pure garbage. Darron Lee IS Jonathan Vilma and he will get buried in blocks by guys 6'5" and 300 pounds. Just like Vilma he is NOT cut out to play in a 3-4 defense. I believe it is a wasted pick altogether. I will sooner believe Lee can make a contribution when one of two things happens: Either they switch Lee to Safety or Todd Bowles starts to play a 4-3 defense. Right now he is a square peg in a round hole.

They also did NOT draft a TE and that was a big need for this offense. In other words, they did NOTHING to improve this offense. As Westhoff said on Jets nation a TE is what allows you to beat cover 2 and the Jets still have the same insufficient roster as last season, probably worse. The only things they did to this offense was to out Band Aids over recent losses. They are old and it will likely show up this season in a big way.

With the 2016 schedule being so much harder, the Jets having done nothing to improve the offense, and the front office blowing their 1st round pick, this team is even farther behind the 8 ball than they were to begin with. You measure the success of your draft based on how many wins you get the following season, or at least that's the way it should be evaluated. This team will be lucky to win 6 games in 2016 all things considered.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

So now that the draft is complete we can all weigh in about whether if it was a TD or not?

My survey says: NO

I give Mac a C- at best in this draft.

The 1st round pick is pure garbage. Darron Lee IS Jonathan Vilma and he will get buried in blocks by guys 6'5" and 300 pounds. Just like Vilma he is NOT cut out to play in a 3-4 defense. I believe it is a wasted pick altogether. I will sooner believe Lee can make a contribution when one of two things happens: Either they switch Lee to Safety or Todd Bowles starts to play a 4-3 defense. Right now he is a square peg in a round hole.

They also did NOT draft a TE and that was a big need for this offense. In other words, they did NOTHING to improve this offense. As Westhoff said on Jets nation a TE is what allows you to beat cover 2 and the Jets still have the same insufficient roster as last season, probably worse. The only things they did to this offense was to out Band Aids over recent losses. They are old and it will likely show up this season in a big way.

With the 2016 schedule being so much harder, the Jets having done nothing to improve the offense, and the front office blowing their 1st round pick, this team is even farther behind the 8 ball than they were to begin with. You measure the success of your draft based on how many wins you get the following season, or at least that's the way it should be evaluated. This team will be lucky to win 6 games in 2016 all things considered.

Debbie downer... The Jets did great in this draft.

 

[Mainejet]

Debbie downer... The Jets did great in this draft.

So you say

 

[Elias]

So now that the draft is complete we can all weigh in about whether if it was a TD or not?

My survey says: NO

I give Mac a C- at best in this draft.

The 1st round pick is pure garbage. Darron Lee IS Jonathan Vilma and he will get buried in blocks by guys 6'5" and 300 pounds. Just like Vilma he is NOT cut out to play in a 3-4 defense. I believe it is a wasted pick altogether. I will sooner believe Lee can make a contribution when one of two things happens: Either they switch Lee to Safety or Todd Bowles starts to play a 4-3 defense. Right now he is a square peg in a round hole.

They also did NOT draft a TE and that was a big need for this offense. In other words, they did NOTHING to improve this offense. As Westhoff said on Jets nation a TE is what allows you to beat cover 2 and the Jets still have the same insufficient roster as last season, probably worse. The only things they did to this offense was to out Band Aids over recent losses. They are old and it will likely show up this season in a big way.

With the 2016 schedule being so much harder, the Jets having done nothing to improve the offense, and the front office blowing their 1st round pick, this team is even farther behind the 8 ball than they were to begin with. You measure the success of your draft based on how many wins you get the following season, or at least that's the way it should be evaluated. This team will be lucky to win 6 games in 2016 all things considered.

If Fitz is our qb, our offense should be much better than last year.

Tight End is barely used in Gaileys offense. Having said that, the return of Amaro should do wonders for us at that position. In addition, Enunwa has one more year under his belt as the Hback. He was raw to begin with. Hopefully with another offseason program he's able to build on what he learned last year. His speed and blocking is hard to match up with and creates mismatches.

Second, we've signed Matt Forte who's a better better fit for this offense than Chris Ivory ever was due to his catching ability. Powell who was the more explosive back last year should also see more playing time. He was held back last year because we had to give the rock to Ivory.

Oline may potentially be an upgrade too. Brick was declining. Maybe someone steps up and supplants Breno. Doesn't take much of an upgrade there. I'm hoping Qvale gets the nod. Management is high on him.

We've improved the punt returning position. Whoever wins there should be an upgrade to Mr. Fair Catch. I expect us to have better field position this year compared to last year.

 

[ReallyBigfan]

Several posters have alluded to Winters as one of the guys that needs to be replaced. Was no one paying attention last season as Winters improved significantly? By the end of the season he was a very good OG.