Mac's Facts

[mydogisajetsfan]

We've seen two years of Mac's drafts on the field and the results are interesting. I think there's a caveat associated with his first draft in that he still had Terry Bradway as his head of scouting and that's a HUUUge disadvantage. Still the results were interesting. The good...

2015
Leonard Williams - ok, that was a gift but we'll take it any way we can get it.
Deon Simon - 7th round wins is what good teams are built on. Well done.

2016
Darren Lee will be a good player. With talent around him Bowles better get the Buchannan out of him.
Jordan Jenkins - a solid, if not spectacular player. A good get for round 3.
Justin Burris - will be a starter at CB and hopefully a solid #2 for years.
Brandon Shell - will be a starter at RT and hopefully a solid starter for years.
Lac Edwards and Charone Peake - Mac is clearly at his best in round !. 3 contributors in 2 years is quite impressive.
Robby Anderson and Jalin Marshall are impressive UDFA pickups.

The bad...

Clearly the 2nd round curse is alive and well. That is crippling to the building of a team. This MUST be fixed. Mauldin has one more chance to prove his worth. I think he made a big mistake by not drafting a center in the last two drafts.

The rest...

There's a lot of hype around this year's draft (at least on this site). I LOVE the first two picks. I have no idea what to expect from Stewart and Hansen. I don't think we will know much about Leggett this year. The key to making this draft special is Dylan Donahue. The good news is he will be given every opportunity to show his wares. Unfortunately Mac didn't have a 7th rounder this year!

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Not impressed with Jalin Marshall.

 

[Mainejet]

We've seen two years of Mac's drafts on the field and the results are interesting. I think there's a caveat associated with his first draft in that he still had Terry Bradway as his head of scouting and that's a HUUUge disadvantage. Still the results were interesting. The good...

2015
Leonard Williams - ok, that was a gift but we'll take it any way we can get it.
Deon Simon - 7th round wins is what good teams are built on. Well done.

2016
Darren Lee will be a good player. With talent around him Bowles better get the Buchannan out of him.
Jordan Jenkins - a solid, if not spectacular player. A good get for round 3.
Justin Burris - will be a starter at CB and hopefully a solid #2 for years.
Brandon Shell - will be a starter at RT and hopefully a solid starter for years.
Lac Edwards and Charone Peake - Mac is clearly at his best in round !. 3 contributors in 2 years is quite impressive.
Robby Anderson and Jalin Marshall are impressive UDFA pickups.

The bad...

Clearly the 2nd round curse is alive and well. That is crippling to the building of a team. This MUST be fixed. Mauldin has one more chance to prove his worth. I think he made a big mistake by not drafting a center in the last two drafts.

The rest...

There's a lot of hype around this year's draft (at least on this site). I LOVE the first two picks. I have no idea what to expect from Stewart and Hansen. I don't think we will know much about Leggett this year. The key to making this draft special is Dylan Donahue. The good news is he will be given every opportunity to show his wares. Unfortunately Mac didn't have a 7th rounder this year!

Where do you get this nonsense from? Lee, Jenkins, and Mauldin are a grand total of NOTHING for the team. Look at it objectively for once please? Lee was advertised as a stud that was extremely versatile. He was supposed to make the Jets win 10 games for a second consecutive season. Instead, the fans got a player that cannot tackle, unless the offensive player has already blown past him for a 7 yard gain. In which case he can tackle the guy from behind. Whenever he had to take o on a guy face to face he got annihilated. His pass coverage was even worse as he allowed a near flawless passer rating. He was constantly caught out of position and got burned for one big play after another.

Jordan Jenkins was supposed to play a big supporting role in the defense, instead he was a virtual non factor.

Shell is totally unproven. He played well against players that probably won't even make NFL rosters in 2017. Based on that you think the Jets just drafted Damien Woody?

All I can say is you're setting yourself up for a huge amount of embarrassment and disappointment. The linebackers is Mac's biggest failure in NY besides QB.

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Where do you get this nonsense from? Lee, Jenkins, and Mauldin are a grand total of NOTHING for the team. Look at it objectively for once please? Lee was advertised as a stud that was extremely versatile. He was supposed to make the Jets win 10 games for a second consecutive season. Instead, the fans got a player that cannot tackle, unless the offensive player has already blown past him for a 7 yard gain. In which case he can tackle the guy from behind. Whenever he had to take o on a guy face to face he got annihilated. His pass coverage was even worse as he allowed a near flawless passer rating. He was constantly caught out of position and got burned for one big play after another.

Jordan Jenkins was supposed to play a big supporting role in the defense, instead he was a virtual non factor.

Shell is totally unproven. He played well against players that probably won't even make NFL rosters in 2017. Based on that you think the Jets just drafted Damien Woody?

All I can say is you're setting yourself up for a huge amount of embarrassment and disappointment. The linebackers is Mac's biggest failure in NY besides QB.

Source?? I missed that advertisement.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

Where do you get this nonsense from? Lee, Jenkins, and Mauldin are a grand total of NOTHING for the team. Look at it objectively for once please? Lee was advertised as a stud that was extremely versatile. He was supposed to make the Jets win 10 games for a second consecutive season. Instead, the fans got a player that cannot tackle, unless the offensive player has already blown past him for a 7 yard gain. In which case he can tackle the guy from behind. Whenever he had to take o on a guy face to face he got annihilated. His pass coverage was even worse as he allowed a near flawless passer rating. He was constantly caught out of position and got burned for one big play after another.

Jordan Jenkins was supposed to play a big supporting role in the defense, instead he was a virtual non factor.

Shell is totally unproven. He played well against players that probably won't even make NFL rosters in 2017. Based on that you think the Jets just drafted Damien Woody?

All I can say is you're setting yourself up for a huge amount of embarrassment and disappointment. The linebackers is Mac's biggest failure in NY besides QB.

I've been a Jets fan for 55 years. I'm used to it.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

Where do you get this nonsense from? Lee, Jenkins, and Mauldin are a grand total of NOTHING for the team. Look at it objectively for once please? Lee was advertised as a stud that was extremely versatile. He was supposed to make the Jets win 10 games for a second consecutive season. Instead, the fans got a player that cannot tackle, unless the offensive player has already blown past him for a 7 yard gain. In which case he can tackle the guy from behind. Whenever he had to take o on a guy face to face he got annihilated. His pass coverage was even worse as he allowed a near flawless passer rating. He was constantly caught out of position and got burned for one big play after another.

Jordan Jenkins was supposed to play a big supporting role in the defense, instead he was a virtual non factor.

Shell is totally unproven. He played well against players that probably won't even make NFL rosters in 2017. Based on that you think the Jets just drafted Damien Woody?

All I can say is you're setting yourself up for a huge amount of embarrassment and disappointment. The linebackers is Mac's biggest failure in NY besides QB.

Lee - 73 tackles, 1 sack, 3 passes defended, 3 stuffs
Jenkins - 41 tackes, 2.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 2 passes defended, 5 stuffs

Decent numbers for rookies. Even more impressive when you consider they both played in front of the worst secondary I can remember in my 55 years of watching this.

 

[Mainejet]

You also talk about the 2nd round jinx for so long with the Jets? Wake me up when Devin Smith actually plays in a game. Hack is another chip off the old lock, apparently? Never have I heard of such sharp criticism for a guy that has yet to play a down?

and in regards to your man love for Lee, realize that most of his 73 tackles were like I said tackling the ball carrier from behind. You also conveniently left out his atrocious pass coverage?

But really the truth is in the results. You make it sound like Mac is some sort of drafting wizard. Sir, if that were the case, the Jets would still be attempting to rebuild on the fly. Instead, they are rebuilding from the ground up. That should tell you that in Mac's two seasons as GM he's been unable to stop the hemmhoraging started by prior regimes.

 

[LIJETFAN]

I have to respectfully disagree Mainejet. I don't believe you can fairly evaluate Lee or Jenkins based on last year. The defense across the Board had a very bad year. They both have playmaking ability. I think both players are talented and can be quality NFL starters. On the other hand, Mauldin has definitely been wildly inconsistent. This is a make or break year for him in my opinion.

In terms of Mac's draft record, I would say with his two drafts thus far, he has done a very good job. Personally, I think Peake, Stewart, Hansen, were all excellent picks, particularly where he got them. I think Stewart has a chance to be a really good player and will surprise. Devin Smith - tough breaks really. Talented player, really started to figure it out before he got injured. He just can't find the field. That was a good pick at the time. Injuries happen, it's part of the game. You are going to miss on some guys because of injuries, it happens. That's not Mac's fault. He was not injury prone in college like say Dee Milliner.

As far as the linemen like Shell, too early to tell. Deon Smith, looks like a steal in the 7th round.

All in all, I would give Mac a solid B for his drafting thus far. If Adams and Maye turn out to be the players we think they can be, then B+. If Hackenberg pans out, well, then you are in a different category. He will look like a genius. But even if Hackenberg misses, he has still drafted well.

He won NFL Executive of the Year in his first season. And I fully agree with the rebuilding approach. He needs more time to get his plan in place. Personally I have confidence in him, and he is a vast improvement from the likes of Idzik, and Bradway. If you're expecting miracles, you're not going to get them. If you exercise some patience, I think Mac will build a roster the right way, and one that can compete for a championship.

 

[Mainejet]

I have to respectfully disagree Mainejet. I don't believe you can fairly evaluate Lee or Jenkins based on last year. The defense across the Board had a very bad year. They both have playmaking ability. I think both players are talented and can be quality NFL starters. On the other hand, Mauldin has definitely been wildly inconsistent. This is a make or break year for him in my opinion.

In terms of Mac's draft record, I would say with his two drafts thus far, he has done a very good job. Personally, I think Peake, Stewart, Hansen, were all excellent picks, particularly where he got them. I think Stewart has a chance to be a really good player and will surprise. Devin Smith - tough breaks really. Talented player, really started to figure it out before he got injured. He just can't find the field. That was a good pick at the time. Injuries happen, it's part of the game. You are going to miss on some guys because of injuries, it happens. That's not Mac's fault. He was not injury prone in college like say Dee Milliner.

As far as the linemen like Shell, too early to tell. Deon Smith, looks like a steal in the 7th round.

All in all, I would give Mac a solid B for his drafting thus far. If Adams and Maye turn out to be the players we think they can be, then B+. If Hackenberg pans out, well, then you are in a different category. He will look like a genius. But even if Hackenberg misses, he has still drafted well.

He won NFL Executive of the Year in his first season. And I fully agree with the rebuilding approach. He needs more time to get his plan in place. Personally I have confidence in him, and he is a vast improvement from the likes of Idzik, and Bradway. If you're expecting miracles, you're not going to get them. If you exercise some patience, I think Mac will build a roster the right way, and one that can compete for a championship.

If you can't evaluate Lee or Jenkins because the defense across the board had a bad year, then you can't evaluate Mauldin either? I mean after all 2015 was his rookie season and last season he suffered through injuries, right?

You see how easy that was? To make excuses for someone/something because you like that someone/something?

We can do this all day or we can have an objective conversation about the status of the team.

This team utilized a rather high pick on Darron Lee. The 20th overall to be exact. He was supposed to be the finishing touch on a defense that was complete. A defense that would easily be top 5 statistically, if not number 1 overall. Toilet and Mac both spoke in such glowing terms of Lee. They complimented and bragged up his versatility because he was going to play inside and outside. They talked up his ability to cover TE's, etc.

What we objectively got instead was a guy that played inside ONLY. Toilet did have him covering TE's, RB's, and even WR's at times, where Lee allowed the QB a 139.1 passer rating on all those plays Lee was assigned to defend. He actually made a lot of tackles, 73 to be exact, after the QB had completed big plays over Lee's head.

Now you can talk up Lee's 73 tackles all day long, but please tell me objectively how his tackles were so great after the big play (that Lee was responsible for) was consistently completed right over his head? This is to say nothing about numerous plays where Lee simply had no idea what his assignment was? Many of them resulting in wide open touchdowns. I mean honestly that's like saying Obama was a great president because he killed Bin Laden, meanwhile every other facet of his presidency told a story of the complete opposite.

I could go on and on about how ineffective he was in the running game getting launched whenever a lead Guard engaged him?

And honestly, I don't even think Mac wanted Lee to begin with? Mac SETTLED on Lee. Mac wanted Laremy Tunsil or another top notch OL in the 1st round. Mac settled on Lee because getting an OL in the 1st would have required Mac to trade away his 2nd rounder. That was absolutely not going to happen because Mac was hell bent on drafting HACKENBERG. So the end result is Mac netted two shitty players instead of one good one that would have filled a huge need for the offense. That was an attempt at fitting a square peg in a round hole because Mac had to have Hackenberg. Mac was totally unprepared for what transpired in the 1st round of the 2016 draft. When teams started trading up into the top 10 to take franchise Tackles, Mac PANNICKED because he had no alternative plan. He fully anticipated getting a top Tackle at 20. As a result, Lee was the product of Mac's lack of being prepared.

Now, we have this little twerp trying to play linebacker in a 3-4, when the fact is Lee is a prototypical 4-3 linebacker. It's like Eric Mangini trying to fit Jonathan Vilma in a 3-4. We all know how that turned out and it likely will happen again with Lee.

 

[LIJETFAN]

Ok, let's cut the sarcasm and obnoxious responses, no need for it. And I would also strongly recommend not going down the political path here. That's always going to be lightening rod discussion that is not productive and will end up being very uncivil. This is about football, period. Which leads me to - I thought we were having an objective conversation about the team?? Just because we disagree doesn't mean it's not objective.

Malden was a second year player, so my evaluation of him is based on 2 years of play, not one. Jenkins and Lee were both rookies. That's the difference.

I don't have an opinion on whether Mac wanted Lee or not, but I do believe it is way too soon to write Lee off. Same for Jenkins. In terms of Hackenberg, we'll know for sure this year whether or not that was a bad pick. I was not a fan of taking him that high, I thought he went at least one round too early. But, it is what is at this point. Here's what we know about him as a pro starter - absolutely nothing. Let's reserve judgment until the kid actually takes the field.

 

[Mainejet]

Ok, let's cut the sarcasm and obnoxious responses, no need for it. And I would also strongly recommend not going down the political path here. That's always going to be lightening rod discussion that is not productive and will end up being very uncivil. This is about football, period. Which leads me to - I thought we were having an objective conversation about the team?? Just because we disagree doesn't mean it's not objective.

Malden was a second year player, so my evaluation of him is based on 2 years of play, not one. Jenkins and Lee were both rookies. That's the difference.

I don't have an opinion on whether Mac wanted Lee or not, but I do believe it is way too soon to write Lee off. Same for Jenkins. In terms of Hackenberg, we'll know for sure this year whether or not that was a bad pick. I was not a fan of taking him that high, I thought he went at least one round too early. But, it is what is at this point. Here's what we know about him as a pro starter - absolutely nothing. Let's reserve judgment until the kid actually takes the field.

I don't know wth you're getting so bent out of shape for? I was not sarcastic or obnoxious in any way. The mention of Obama is merely using a good analogy to illustrate my point? This is not a political debate, nor do I want it to become one.

Maybe you're referring to the little twerp comment as sarcasm? I posted that because Lee IS truly undersized. The same identical size and combine measurables as Jonathan Vilma, another prototypical 4-3 linebacker. A guy that was never cut out to play in a 3-4 and it showed in 2006. He was consistently caught out of position, slow to react, and gave up a ton of big plays.

For Lee to be successful in this defense, he MUST put on about 20 pounds of muscle. First of all, his weight as advertised during the draft is an exaggeration, a load of shit. His accurate playing weight on game days in 2016 wa right around 215. Not 232 like was claimed at draft time. Specifically due to his weight he got annihilated any time a lead Guard got his hands on him.

His play illustrated the need for Toilet to either switch the base defense to a 4-3 or switch Lee to Free Safety.

 

[Mainejet]

What I find to be most deplorable and disingenuous about this thread is the fact that no one here is calling out the op for the title of this thread? Mac's FACTS??? There's absolutely nothing factual about his claims besides what players were drafted what year. The rest of it is all OPINION. The op does not use sort of statistics to back up his claims of fact.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

What I find to be most deplorable and disingenuous about this thread is the fact that no one here is calling out the op for the title of this thread? Mac's FACTS??? There's absolutely nothing factual about his claims besides what players were drafted what year. The rest of it is all OPINION. The op does not use sort of statistics to back up his claims of fact.

Deplorable? Disingenuous? Really dude? This is a forum for Jets fan who enjoy sharing their thoughts and opinions. We don't always agree but I enjoy your posts. I don't agree with or think the name calling is necessary but I do appreciate your passion. Let's keep it going and enjoy it.

 

[jetgreen13]

Deplorable? Disingenuous? Really dude? This is a forum for Jets fan who enjoy sharing their thoughts and opinions. We don't always agree but I enjoy your posts. I don't agree with or think the name calling is necessary but I do appreciate your passion. Let's keep it going and enjoy it.

well said..

that said, i believe maine is a good guy/poster who just so happens to not have much of a filter..

i'm basing this on 10+ years posting with the guy..

 

[SackExchange]

I don't really care for the politics or the insults being thrown about here.

For that matter, the throwing around of opinion as fact is also a bit ridiculous.

 

[mydogisajetsfan]

well said..

that said, i believe maine is a good guy/poster who just so happens to not have much of a filter..

i'm basing this on 10+ years posting with the guy..

I agree

 

[SackExchange]

What I find to be most deplorable and disingenuous about this thread is the fact that no one here is calling out the op for the title of this thread? Mac's FACTS??? There's absolutely nothing factual about his claims besides what players were drafted what year. The rest of it is all OPINION. The op does not use sort of statistics to back up his claims of fact.

Didn't you also posit opinion as fact? Seems disingenuous to call out others for presenting opinion as fact when you do the very same thing in this thread.

 

[Mainejet]

Deplorable? Disingenuous? Really dude? This is a forum for Jets fan who enjoy sharing their thoughts and opinions. We don't always agree but I enjoy your posts. I don't agree with or think the name calling is necessary but I do appreciate your passion. Let's keep it going and enjoy it.

Please point out to me anywhere in this thread where I called you names and I will apologize. But I do think the thread title is disingenuous. The title indicates factual things are discussed within the thread. There was nothing factual, only your opinion.

 

[Mainejet]

Didn't you also posit opinion as fact? Seems disingenuous to call out others for presenting opinion as fact when you do the very same thing in this thread.

You're posing that a as a question when you already know the answer? You already know the answer is no, or else you would've already attempted to use my words against me by quoting me?

I have never claimed anything is fact when the point is unproven. However, opposing QB's having 139.1 passer rating when passing to Lee's responsibility is absolutely factual. Lee generating MOST of his 73 tackles after he has already been abused in pass coverage in absolutely truthful. If you question it go on youtube and examine his 73 tackles closer.

You just don't like me attacking one of Mac's biggest picks an drawing conclusions so quickly. You think Lee is wonderful and you're deliberately choosing to overlook his problems in pass coverage and context being set with his 73 tackles? My opinion of him is in stark contrast to you and Mydog's opinion.

I just THINK this guy has JAG at best written all over him mostly due to Mac's incompetence in making the pick in the first place. I also firmly believe the only reason he was selected was because of Christian Hackenberg, which makes Lee's selection that much more of a risky gamble? I don't like how Mac handled the 2016 draft and I think as a result he set this team's development back substantially. Like I posted already, if he had gotten the draft right, we might not be in full tear it down mode right now. 3 years into his tenure here.

 

[Mainejet]

well said..

that said, i believe maine is a good guy/poster who just so happens to not have much of a filter..

i'm basing this on 10+ years posting with the guy..

Like I already replied to Mydog, please point out where the insults and name calling is happening here. There isn't any?

But please tell me why is mentioning politics in passing such a mortal sin on this site? Iused it because I felt it was a useful analogy in making my point. I could choose to tell you you how I really feel about the last president, but I'm not doing that here?