Maybe its Wilson and Not Lafluer
- Thread starter Greentilldeath
- Start date
A.) what pocket to have a presence in? when he has had a pocket, he is delivering...also, and not to be taken lightly, he was doing things that White didn't have to do/or could do- Zach's #1 target is obviously Cory, and Cory's route's are comprised of a ton of route's with breaks in them. Zach, when given time, is standing in the pocket, and throwing Cory open by throwing before Cory breaks.
B.) i am all for Mike to have 2.5 games of successfully leading the offense...i will gleefully cheer him onto a 11-5 record, and a playoff berth. but let's bear in mind that it is 1.5 games so far, and Indy will be the first test in seeing how Mike & Mike will deal with a week of prep against their strengths. "But" by virtue of being a short week, one would surmise Indy is going to have a lot of Vanilla stuff...if White is "ok", that AIN'T A GOOD SIGN.
C.) But Mount Becton goes back to LT as soon as he's healthy and Fant goes to RT, and Moses goes to the bench. or is QB a specific position for you in terms of not losing a spot due to injury? it is not for me...if the team is playing well with a replacement, stick with the replacement.
I actually agree with you on White being hot, and if he is, you have to at least be damned certain you aren't hurting the team by making a change.
at the same time, and this might just be me seeing something as important that is not, but both QB's should have the right to practice with the 1's and the 2's, with LaFleur calling plays from a box. ML calling his best game is not a coincidence. Zach should also get the benefit of his OC being able to see what he wasn't seeing while he was playing...Saleh saw it too, and now it's a thing.
First things first...GREAT POST!!
where were all of the plays that were called for White when Zach was playing? in the playbook.
I bet that LaFleur felt like a kid in the candy store seeing the game from up stairs.
throwing where they AIN'T probably was a lot easier to call.
I would think a ton of LaFleur if he admitted that he handy-capped himself by not doing so from the start and by proxy, he did the same to Zach as well.
calling the game from the box.
that is what Saleh saw. it was a very brief question/commentary on Sunday's post game interview.
that's when Saleh said "he's (Lafleur) staying there".
that's what i meant be saying he saw it too; LaFleur from the box.
Maybe it makes a difference where the OC calls the plays from, but what makes the biggest difference is the ability of the QB to stand in the pocket slide around within the pocket to avoid the rush while keeping his eyes down field and executing the play calls.
Opie’s first instinct is to get out and go off schedule. Leads to holding calls and school yard football .
Opie’s first instinct is to get out and go off schedule. Leads to holding calls and school yard football .
I said a few weeks ago that Wilson's dropped passes were probably due to poor technique by the Wilson and weren't the fault of the receivers. I watched the last 5 minutes of last weeks game and White played like an experienced veteran. The Jets successfully executed a flawless double reverse option pass! When you consider that Wilson had way more reps with the starters during the off-season and regular season practices, it's pretty clear that he's not 2nd overall value.
Oh, and Lafleur still sucks. Stop going for 2 points! It doesn't help!
Oh, and Lafleur still sucks. Stop going for 2 points! It doesn't help!
Going for two is the call of the HC, not the OC . Everyone wants the best for Wilson but the truth is he’s just not ready to lead an NFL team . When you start the season with 3 QBS who has never started an NFL game, letting the guy you spent the 2nd overall pick on is a no brained . It no longer is based on what has occurred over the last two weeks. Wilson might still get the nod once healthy, but it’s probably going to be based on how White performs while he’s starting .
After the last TD they were up by 1 before the XP try. If they kicked the XP they would have been up by only 2 and could have lose with just a FG. By going for and getting the 2-Pt they made the lead three. At that point a FG would tie instead of win.
I don’t get how, “It doesn’t help.”
Last week, kicking 2 extra points would've yielded the same score. So it didn't help last week.
During the Patriots game, the Jets lost 54-13 so it didn't help.
The Jets are probably well below 50% on successful two-point attempts for the season.
Generally speaking, teams that put their hopes in 2-point conversions tend to dig a bigger hole. Teams will miss a 2-point conversion, try to recover the point by missing another 2-point conversion and end up going down by 2-points. If they're lucky (like the Jets last week), they'll recover the point they lost on the first attempt.
Wait...i gotta get this straight:
1.) the myriad of drops the receivers had with Zach...that were in their wheel house...that were in their hands...were Zach's fault because of poor mechanics? as in, for example, the ball was not spinning correctly?
2.) was Zach ever given a double reverse option to execute? I bet you didn't stop to think that LaFleur didn't see that or the plethora of Jet Sweeps could have been run with Zach in the game as well, right?
i am rooting for White to succeed because if he does, the Jets do. However, i am also in Zach's corner, and the more the kid is getting thrown under the bus, the more i want to be. we are surmising an apple to apple comparison of White to Zach, but we don't know the if there are factors that favored White in his last start. i keep harping on this...there was a different game called on Sunday with LaFleur in the box.
The average pocket time for Zack Wilson was 2.3 seconds. The average pocket time for Mike White was 2.4 seconds...not much difference in the protection.
Mike White has had about half the drop rate as Zach Wilson which suggests that Wilson is a bigger part of the problem. Almost 1/4 of Wilson's throws were bad. Wilson's yards per completion is about 7 to White's 4 which when considering QBR, suggests that White is having more success with shorter passes. With basically the same receiving corps, this suggests that Wilson is a big part of the drops problem.
Wilson has had the majority of snaps with the first team in the offseason. He's also had majority of work between games. He's supposed to be better than White but isn't.
BTW, I'm neither for nor against Wilson. I just want a qb to succeed. But clearly, Wilson isn't worth the 2nd overall pick.
The example you gave about having to chase the point if a 2-point conversion fails only applies in the early parts of a game. It did *not* apply in the 4th quarter situation the Jets were in on Sunday. There is no advantage in late-game situations to be up by 2 points, rather than 1 point. Either way, a late field goal beats you. On the other hand, it made complete sense to go for the 2 points on Sunday. Being potentially ahead by 3 points means that a late field goal can only ties you.
It applies late in the game too. 2-point conversions didn't help the Jets last week and they didn't help the week prior. You can theorize about how successful 2-point conversions improve your chances to win all day long. But the reality is that they have a high failure rate and they're rarely the last resort in attempting to change the outcome of the game. Last Sunday, the Jets didn't need a 2-point conversion to win so I guess my example (whatever that may have been) still applied in the 4th quarter.
And maybe that different game plan was called because White can execute it and Wilson can't. I have no idea.
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We don't know all of the differences...that is a certainty. my bet is that there are certain plays to be run at a certain yards down field, and LaFleur was able to see which ones to call for White, because he was able to Cincy's tendencies from the box.
it's the simplest explanation for our receivers not to be running in a congested zone on the field.
We don't know all of the differences...that is a certainty. my bet is that there are certain plays to be run at a certain yards down field, and LaFleur was able to see which ones to call for White, because he was able to Cincy's tendencies from the box.
it's the simplest explanation for our receivers not to be running in a congested zone on the field.
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although i think @innocenti is wrong on the precise plays he mentioned, i agree with his premise! I hate the 2 point conversion because once you miss it, you're chasing the dragon until you get it.
I stand by my post. Towards the end of the game, with the opportunity to kick an extra point to go up by 2, or try for a 2-point play to go up by 3, there isn’t a coach in the league who would just kick the extra point. At the end of a game, it makes *No* difference if you would be up by 1 point or 2 points, so if the attempt fails, it doesn’t matter. It makes a HUGE difference if you can get up by 3 points. To discuss chasing points early in the game is a whole different matter. That *WOULD**be stupid, but that is an apples to oranges comparison. I don’t understand why chasing points early was even brought up. The Jets were in an *end game* situation.
How a team has done in the past is irrelevant. It is the situation (the amount of time left) that matters. When a team is down by a touchdown with 5 seconds left, every coach who has ever lived would call for a bomb into the end zone. Should a coach say, that we have never completed a pass in that situation, so we didn’t bother trying it?
How a team has done in the past is irrelevant. It is the situation (the amount of time left) that matters. When a team is down by a touchdown with 5 seconds left, every coach who has ever lived would call for a bomb into the end zone. Should a coach say, that we have never completed a pass in that situation, so we didn’t bother trying it?