NFL v College football

DavidO

Pro Bowl Alternate
Jet Fanatics
Over the last few years - since I've got back into 'football' something that is mentioned a lot in the lead up to the draft, is the amount of College QBs that aren't ready for the NFL due to the system that their College uses.

Question I have is - why do so many Colleges use a system that appears to have a detrimental affect on QB prospects...

I appreciate that the answers many come down to funding etc, but should the NFL help colleges to ensure that ALL draft prospects are prepared for life in the NFL!

Should colleges do all they can to ensure their players are ready for the big league or do what is best for them and win 'simple' (you know what I mean)???

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sect313

Day 1 Prospect
Jet Fanatics
they don't care about the players, whatever makes them a better team to make more money. they are separate entities.
 
F

flgreen

Guest
The problem with NCAA QB's not being ready for the NFL is the spread offense. Usually it's a single read offense. If your first guy isn't open, you either run with it, or dump it.

Where as in the NFL the QB's are expected to go through progressions. Rapidly going through all their WR's in a second or so. Finding the guy that is open, and getting the ball out in under 3 seconds.

They are required to make pre-snap reads, and anticipate what the defense is going to throw at them. Much more cerebral then in college.

The reason that colleges use the spread really doesn't have much to do with funding, NCAA football in big schools is very profitable. it has to do with the fact that they usually only have a starting QB for 1 or 2 years. Just not enough time to install a complicated NFL scheme, and run it proficiently.

They depend much more on the athletic ability of the QB's then the NFL does. It's just easier.

I hope this made some sense.
 
F

flgreen

Guest
Over the last few years - since I've got back into 'football' something that is mentioned a lot in the lead up to the draft, is the amount of College QBs that aren't ready for the NFL due to the system that their College uses.

Question I have is - why do so many Colleges use a system that appears to have a detrimental affect on QB prospects...

I appreciate that the answers many come down to funding etc, but should the NFL help colleges to ensure that ALL draft prospects are prepared for life in the NFL!

Should colleges do all they can to ensure their players are ready for the big league or do what is best for them and win 'simple' (you know what I mean)???

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Why the NFL Has a Quarterback Crisis

Coaches see more QB prospects entering the league without the skill sets to excel; Will the classic NFL passer go extinct?


By KEVIN CLARK
Sept. 9, 2015 1:24 p.m. ET

Since the dawn of the NFL, head coaches and general managers have been calling top college quarterback prospects into conference rooms to pepper them with rudimentary questions: how to attack a certain defense, for instance, or what to do when a play breaks down. The answers were sometimes dull and sometimes brilliant, but there were always answers.

This year, according to separate interviews with dozens of NFL coaches and executives, something disturbing happened in these pre-draft quiz sessions. When asked the same basic questions, many quarterback prospects responded with something NFL insiders said they have never seen before: blank stares.


Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi said the new crop of college quarterbacks were flummoxed by a simple question about an “under” front, one of the most common defensive alignments. “Whoa, no one’s ever told me ‘front’ before,” he remembers one prospect saying. “No one’s ever talked to me about reading these defenses.”

Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley said he had the same results when he asked prospects a question about defenses shifting from a common scheme called “cover 2” to an equally mundane tactic called “cover 3.” Hue Jackson, the offensive coordinator from the Bengals, said he had to dumb down his questions, while Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton said some QBs failed to grasp things as basic as understanding a common play call. “You have to teach these kids the absolute basics,” he said.

The knowledge base was so low, Buffalo’s Whaley said, that it left him feeling “a little nervous about the long-term future of this game.”



As the 2015 NFL season begins, the league’s decision makers say they are daunted by what they see as a widening gulf between the college game and the pro game, one that has existed for a while but is now starting to affect the quality of the league’s most-cherished commodity: Quarterbacks. The kinds of passers the NFL thrives on are those who can survey the field before the snap to “read” the defense and make any necessary adjustments, then drop back and dissect the coverage again, picking through a number of passing options to find the open receiver.

For years, this brand of preparation has been regenerated from Joe Montana to Tom Brady to relative newcomers like Seattle’s Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck of the Indianapolis Colts. Spoiled by their immense talent and football intelligence, the NFL has organized itself around quarterbacks to the point where it is hard to imagine the sport without them. The five most productive individual passing seasons in history have happened since 2011.

But if current trends continue, NFL insiders say, quarterbacks who have the sophistication to outfox NFL defenses to deliver the ball to open receivers are “going to be on the endangered species list,” said Cleveland Browns coach Mike Pettine. “The quarterback may not be gone yet,” he added, “but if you have one, protect it.”

“It’s doomsday if we don’t adapt and evolve,” said St. Louis Rams general manager Les Snead.

In the last decade, many college football teams have embraced a form of offense that runs at a furious tempo with no breaks for huddles, the goal being to grind down and exhaust the defense. Teams that play this way don’t bother trying to fool their opponents with complex schemes and trickery, they just bull forward as fast as they can. College defenses have been forced to adapt to this “hurry-up” mode by simplifying their fronts and coverage packages to help the players keep pace. The learning curve, at the NFL level, NFL people say, is so massive that it’s hard to overcome for all but the best college quarterbacks.

The trouble with this trend, NFL experts say, is that many of the players coming from the college ranks have spent their entire careers playing in this high-throttle system, which is completely different from the slower, deliberate and more complex nature of the NFL. When they come to the NFL, it’s as if they’re being told to stop playing speed checkers and start playing chess. And the NFL, which doesn’t have a minor league of its own, has no influence over college coaches. “They don’t coach anything,” said Rex Ryan, the head coach of the Buffalo Bills, when discussing college defenses.

At Baylor, quarterback Bryce Petty was one of the most prolific passers in the country. He led the Bears to two conference championships in his last two seasons on campus and holds 31 Baylor passing records and has the lowest percentage of interceptions per pass in NCAA history.

But NFL teams were wary of Petty. Because Baylor played a “spread” offense that forced defenses to fan out across the field, making them unable to disguise anything, many scouts worried he would struggle to master the NFL game. He had to wait until the 103rd pick before the New York Jets scooped him up. Petty said he was “upset and frustrated that I was thrown away like I couldn’t learn it,” he said. “I’m like ‘you’ve got to give me a chance a little bit.’”


Petty admits to grappling with tasks such as hearing and calling the play, identifying defensive backs in coverage and identifying which player in the defensive backfield was the “mike” linebacker, the central part of the defense whose location teams base their offensive line protections on. “As crazy as it sounds, at Baylor, we did not point out the ‘mike’ linebacker,” Petty said.

Petty was unfamiliar with making adjustments to the play or the formation before the snap.

“Honestly, I wish I’d done a little bit more as far as being proactive to get into a pro style [offense],” he said, singling out the need to decipher fronts or coverages. “It was things I have never seen before.”

Exactly 101 picks earlier, another quarterback from a spread offense was selected. Marcus Mariota, who won the Heisman Trophy while leading the Oregon Ducks to the national championship game last season, was taken with the second overall pick by the Tennessee Titans. Mariota can run as well as pass, but NFL teams worried about his ability to translate to the pro game. Titans general manager Ruston Webster defended Mariota and the Oregon offense and said they used NFL principles—like the quarterback reading multiple receivers on a play or him staying “in the pocket”—the area behind the offensive line—“more than what people realized. It gave us confidence.”

‘It’s doomsday if we don’t adapt and evolve’
—St. Louis Rams general manager Les Snead
A parade of general managers, like Pittsburgh’s Kevin Colbert, think that if the current model holds, the notion of drafting a quarterback to start right away will need to scrapped.

NFL officials agree that the new wave of quarterbacks will need more time than previous generations, but some fret that today’s roster limits and time constraints may prevent them from getting the time they need to learn or develop. “It might become like major league baseball now, where you take a guy that you think will be able to play in three, four, five years,” said Pettine.

Even that can be hard. One general manager admitted that he’s having trouble finding a young quarterback to keep on the roster whose lack of knowledge of the pro game won’t frustrate his team’s established starter.

In NFL facilities across the country, the race to figure out what works is on. “It’s on us to adapt, I don’t think any of us want this thing to crash,” said the Rams’ Snead.

Cleveland’s Farmer has one idea: What if you could design an offense to minimize the passing deficiencies of modern quarterback prospects? Farmer used the example of Auburn’s Nick Marshall, who threw 20 touchdowns last season but was projected to transition to defensive back in the NFL. What if, Farmer said, you devoted resources to designing an offense where Marshall could thrive? He would cost you almost nothing—Marshall went undrafted—and “you might get your franchise quarterback in the later rounds, and that’s unheard of these days.”

“Whoever cracks this code the soonest is going to have a huge, huge advantage,” Farmer said, adding he and his coach, Pettine, have had broad discussions on the topic.


Indeed, Snead has similar thoughts. He recalled the brilliance behind the “Cover 2” or “Tampa 2” defenses, popularized first by the Pittsburgh Steelers of the 1970s then refined by multiple teams in the 1990s, which minimized the importance of “cover” cornerbacks, who could lock up wide receivers in man-to-man coverage and are expensive and hard to find. Snead said the race is on to find a similar strategy that minimizes the importance of the quarterback. “The person who makes the quarterback like they made the cornerback will be a name that will be remembered forever,” Snead said. “But it will take courage to do it.”

NFL coaches are still trying to figure out which elements of the college innovations can be used in the NFL. One issue is that NFL rules prohibit teams from snapping the ball as quickly after plays, meaning they cannot run a pure uptempo offense. Chicago Bears offensive coordinator Adam Gase singled out Philadelphia Eagles coach Chip Kelly, a former Oregon coach, as bringing positive elements of the spread to the pros. “They do a good job and they haven’t sold out to the scheme and most importantly their quarterbacks don’t take huge hits,” Gase said. “The quarterback position is so valuable you want to adapt to their strengths, they do that.”

For his part, Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley sees an altogether bleaker future for teams searching for a quarterback. “You do not want to be in the top five pickers in the draft, you really don’t,” Haley said. “Guys are going to get fired. General managers, coaches, they’re going to go because it’s just guessing. It’s harder than ever to find a quarterback.”

Write to Kevin Clark at kevin.clark@wsj.com
 

DavidO

Pro Bowl Alternate
Jet Fanatics
That's a good read flgreen.

I just think it's crazy that college programmes don't do more to prepare their players for 'real' football. The better they're explorers do, surely that would make their programme more attractive, so he them more money in the long run...

I appreciate it's not as simple as that in real life...

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johnnysd

5th Year Team Option
Jet Fanatics
Good thing for Petty is it seems he is picking it up very well. He came across as pretty smart in the Gruden piece. There was no reason for Petty to fall as far as he did. We got unreal value.
 

Golden Rott

Repeat Offender Pro Bowler
Jet Fanatics
Wall Street Journal had an article today on this topic, included a pretty good profile of Petty. Link below is to the article (it is pretty long). Section on Petty is pasted in below.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-nfl-has-a-quarterback-crisis-1441819454

At Baylor, quarterback Bryce Petty was one of the most prolific passers in the country. He led the Bears to two conference championships in his last two seasons on campus and holds 31 Baylor passing records and has the lowest percentage of interceptions per pass in NCAA history.

But NFL teams were wary of Petty. Because Baylor played a “spread” offense that forced defenses to fan out across the field, making them unable to disguise anything, many scouts worried he would struggle to master the NFL game. He had to wait until the 103rd pick before the New York Jets scooped him up. Petty said he was “upset and frustrated that I was thrown away like I couldn’t learn it,” he said. “I’m like ‘you’ve got to give me a chance a little bit.’”

Petty admits to grappling with tasks such as hearing and calling the play, identifying defensive backs in coverage and identifying which player in the defensive backfield was the “mike” linebacker, the central part of the defense whose location teams base their offensive line protections on. “As crazy as it sounds, at Baylor, we did not point out the ‘mike’ linebacker,” Petty said.

Petty was unfamiliar with making adjustments to the play or the formation before the snap.

“Honestly, I wish I’d done a little bit more as far as being proactive to get into a pro style [offense],” he said, singling out the need to decipher fronts or coverages. “It was things I have never seen before.”

Exactly 101 picks earlier, another quarterback from a spread offense was selected. Marcus Mariota, who won the Heisman Trophy while leading the Oregon Ducks to the national championship game last season, was taken with the second overall pick by the Tennessee Titans. Mariota can run as well as pass, but NFL teams worried about his ability to translate to the pro game. Titans general manager Ruston Webster defended Mariota and the Oregon offense and said they used NFL principles—like the quarterback reading multiple receivers on a play or him staying “in the pocket”—the area behind the offensive line—“more than what people realized. It gave us confidence.”
 

Elias

The Invisible Man
Big Fish
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Why the NFL Has a Quarterback Crisis

Coaches see more QB prospects entering the league without the skill sets to excel; Will the classic NFL passer go extinct?


By KEVIN CLARK
Sept. 9, 2015 1:24 p.m. ET

Since the dawn of the NFL, head coaches and general managers have been calling top college quarterback prospects into conference rooms to pepper them with rudimentary questions: how to attack a certain defense, for instance, or what to do when a play breaks down. The answers were sometimes dull and sometimes brilliant, but there were always answers.

This year, according to separate interviews with dozens of NFL coaches and executives, something disturbing happened in these pre-draft quiz sessions. When asked the same basic questions, many quarterback prospects responded with something NFL insiders said they have never seen before: blank stares.


Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi said the new crop of college quarterbacks were flummoxed by a simple question about an “under” front, one of the most common defensive alignments. “Whoa, no one’s ever told me ‘front’ before,” he remembers one prospect saying. “No one’s ever talked to me about reading these defenses.”

Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley said he had the same results when he asked prospects a question about defenses shifting from a common scheme called “cover 2” to an equally mundane tactic called “cover 3.” Hue Jackson, the offensive coordinator from the Bengals, said he had to dumb down his questions, while Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton said some QBs failed to grasp things as basic as understanding a common play call. “You have to teach these kids the absolute basics,” he said.

The knowledge base was so low, Buffalo’s Whaley said, that it left him feeling “a little nervous about the long-term future of this game.”



As the 2015 NFL season begins, the league’s decision makers say they are daunted by what they see as a widening gulf between the college game and the pro game, one that has existed for a while but is now starting to affect the quality of the league’s most-cherished commodity: Quarterbacks. The kinds of passers the NFL thrives on are those who can survey the field before the snap to “read” the defense and make any necessary adjustments, then drop back and dissect the coverage again, picking through a number of passing options to find the open receiver.

For years, this brand of preparation has been regenerated from Joe Montana to Tom Brady to relative newcomers like Seattle’s Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck of the Indianapolis Colts. Spoiled by their immense talent and football intelligence, the NFL has organized itself around quarterbacks to the point where it is hard to imagine the sport without them. The five most productive individual passing seasons in history have happened since 2011.

But if current trends continue, NFL insiders say, quarterbacks who have the sophistication to outfox NFL defenses to deliver the ball to open receivers are “going to be on the endangered species list,” said Cleveland Browns coach Mike Pettine. “The quarterback may not be gone yet,” he added, “but if you have one, protect it.”

“It’s doomsday if we don’t adapt and evolve,” said St. Louis Rams general manager Les Snead.

In the last decade, many college football teams have embraced a form of offense that runs at a furious tempo with no breaks for huddles, the goal being to grind down and exhaust the defense. Teams that play this way don’t bother trying to fool their opponents with complex schemes and trickery, they just bull forward as fast as they can. College defenses have been forced to adapt to this “hurry-up” mode by simplifying their fronts and coverage packages to help the players keep pace. The learning curve, at the NFL level, NFL people say, is so massive that it’s hard to overcome for all but the best college quarterbacks.

The trouble with this trend, NFL experts say, is that many of the players coming from the college ranks have spent their entire careers playing in this high-throttle system, which is completely different from the slower, deliberate and more complex nature of the NFL. When they come to the NFL, it’s as if they’re being told to stop playing speed checkers and start playing chess. And the NFL, which doesn’t have a minor league of its own, has no influence over college coaches. “They don’t coach anything,” said Rex Ryan, the head coach of the Buffalo Bills, when discussing college defenses.

At Baylor, quarterback Bryce Petty was one of the most prolific passers in the country. He led the Bears to two conference championships in his last two seasons on campus and holds 31 Baylor passing records and has the lowest percentage of interceptions per pass in NCAA history.

But NFL teams were wary of Petty. Because Baylor played a “spread” offense that forced defenses to fan out across the field, making them unable to disguise anything, many scouts worried he would struggle to master the NFL game. He had to wait until the 103rd pick before the New York Jets scooped him up. Petty said he was “upset and frustrated that I was thrown away like I couldn’t learn it,” he said. “I’m like ‘you’ve got to give me a chance a little bit.’”


Petty admits to grappling with tasks such as hearing and calling the play, identifying defensive backs in coverage and identifying which player in the defensive backfield was the “mike” linebacker, the central part of the defense whose location teams base their offensive line protections on. “As crazy as it sounds, at Baylor, we did not point out the ‘mike’ linebacker,” Petty said.

Petty was unfamiliar with making adjustments to the play or the formation before the snap.

“Honestly, I wish I’d done a little bit more as far as being proactive to get into a pro style [offense],” he said, singling out the need to decipher fronts or coverages. “It was things I have never seen before.”

Exactly 101 picks earlier, another quarterback from a spread offense was selected. Marcus Mariota, who won the Heisman Trophy while leading the Oregon Ducks to the national championship game last season, was taken with the second overall pick by the Tennessee Titans. Mariota can run as well as pass, but NFL teams worried about his ability to translate to the pro game. Titans general manager Ruston Webster defended Mariota and the Oregon offense and said they used NFL principles—like the quarterback reading multiple receivers on a play or him staying “in the pocket”—the area behind the offensive line—“more than what people realized. It gave us confidence.”

‘It’s doomsday if we don’t adapt and evolve’
—St. Louis Rams general manager Les Snead
A parade of general managers, like Pittsburgh’s Kevin Colbert, think that if the current model holds, the notion of drafting a quarterback to start right away will need to scrapped.

NFL officials agree that the new wave of quarterbacks will need more time than previous generations, but some fret that today’s roster limits and time constraints may prevent them from getting the time they need to learn or develop. “It might become like major league baseball now, where you take a guy that you think will be able to play in three, four, five years,” said Pettine.

Even that can be hard. One general manager admitted that he’s having trouble finding a young quarterback to keep on the roster whose lack of knowledge of the pro game won’t frustrate his team’s established starter.

In NFL facilities across the country, the race to figure out what works is on. “It’s on us to adapt, I don’t think any of us want this thing to crash,” said the Rams’ Snead.

Cleveland’s Farmer has one idea: What if you could design an offense to minimize the passing deficiencies of modern quarterback prospects? Farmer used the example of Auburn’s Nick Marshall, who threw 20 touchdowns last season but was projected to transition to defensive back in the NFL. What if, Farmer said, you devoted resources to designing an offense where Marshall could thrive? He would cost you almost nothing—Marshall went undrafted—and “you might get your franchise quarterback in the later rounds, and that’s unheard of these days.”

“Whoever cracks this code the soonest is going to have a huge, huge advantage,” Farmer said, adding he and his coach, Pettine, have had broad discussions on the topic.


Indeed, Snead has similar thoughts. He recalled the brilliance behind the “Cover 2” or “Tampa 2” defenses, popularized first by the Pittsburgh Steelers of the 1970s then refined by multiple teams in the 1990s, which minimized the importance of “cover” cornerbacks, who could lock up wide receivers in man-to-man coverage and are expensive and hard to find. Snead said the race is on to find a similar strategy that minimizes the importance of the quarterback. “The person who makes the quarterback like they made the cornerback will be a name that will be remembered forever,” Snead said. “But it will take courage to do it.”

NFL coaches are still trying to figure out which elements of the college innovations can be used in the NFL. One issue is that NFL rules prohibit teams from snapping the ball as quickly after plays, meaning they cannot run a pure uptempo offense. Chicago Bears offensive coordinator Adam Gase singled out Philadelphia Eagles coach Chip Kelly, a former Oregon coach, as bringing positive elements of the spread to the pros. “They do a good job and they haven’t sold out to the scheme and most importantly their quarterbacks don’t take huge hits,” Gase said. “The quarterback position is so valuable you want to adapt to their strengths, they do that.”

For his part, Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley sees an altogether bleaker future for teams searching for a quarterback. “You do not want to be in the top five pickers in the draft, you really don’t,” Haley said. “Guys are going to get fired. General managers, coaches, they’re going to go because it’s just guessing. It’s harder than ever to find a quarterback.”

Write to Kevin Clark at kevin.clark@wsj.com

That was a great read
 

Green Jets & Ham

King Of All Draftniks
Jet Fanatics
This is not a new phenomenon. In fact I would argue its gotten better over the years, not worse. In the 70's and 80's it was not uncommon to draft a QB in the first round and have him sit for two years before he saw live action. The guys who played right away and hit the ground running, like Dan Marino, were the exceptions to the rule. Nowadays QB's transition to the NFL a lot faster. There's still a grooming stage, but on average its not nearly as long as it used to be.

As to the why, if you think the spread offense in college fails to adequately prepare these college QB's for the NFL, you should have seen the offenses colleges ran in the 70's. Most were still running the damn Wishbone and variations of the Single-Wing! Thats why Troy Aikman transferred from Oklahoma to UCLA, Oklahoma was still running a Wishbone offense and UCLA was using something closer to an NFL offense. Heck, when Roger Staubach came out of Navy, following his service in Vietnam, Tom Landry had to break the colt before he could make Roger the starter. Staubach was an all-time great, but at that point he still had the habit of taking off and running if his first option was covered, cause thats what he did at Navy where he won the Heisman. Landry basically had to re-train him to be an NFL QB before he could make him the full time starter, and that took about two years. For all the talk about how difficult Bryce Petty's transition to the NFL will be, because he played in the spread at Baylor, its a walk in the park compared to the transition one needs to make from the Wishbone, Single Wing etc., that was like going from Elementary School to Harvard.

The first college team to use a real NFL system on offense was the Miami Hurricanes in the 1980's, thats why they produced a succession of QB's who were drafted in the first round and came to be known as "Quarterback U", much the same way Penn State was called "Linebacker U", because they were the first team to really deploy a pro style offense.
 
F

flgreen

Guest
I definitely agree with the spirit of your post Ham. The reality of it now-a-days, not so much.

In the 70's the team that drafted a QB, owned him for life. For whatever money they felt like paying him. They could sit him as long as they liked.

Today, if you draft a QB early, you have to get something out of his rookie contract so you know if you want to give him an expensive 2nd contract, under a cap that didn't exist in 1974.

Different ball game, different rules.
 
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