Quick Summary

[skop]

Bill Belichick never turned Cleveland into a SB contender.

1991: 6-10.
1992: 7-9.
1993: 7-9.
1994: 11-5 (one and done 2nd round elimination).
1995: 5-11.

@ 36-44 he never once turned Cleveland into a SB contender because he had 1 2nd round exit + 4 losing years (throughout his 5 years there).




So you're saying that you saw it but I didn't?

Because as a kid I remember our 1-15 season of 1996 under Rich Kotite. I remember our 1997 magical turn around under Bill Parcells to 9-7 and would've made the playoffs that year if not for a week 17 loss @ Detroit where Barry Sanders broke the single season record and either BP or Weis called an awful HB pass turned INT inside the red zone. And I still to this day remember being heartbroken 1998 losing to Denver in the AFC Championship game.

Long story short I was already 15 years old in 2000 when Bill Belichick arrived in N.E and in 2001 my older brother took me to the Wing House where we witnessed the birth of Tom Brady (when Mo Lewis injured Drew Bledsoe).

And in 2000 Bill Belichick went 5-11 without Tom Brady (with Drew Bledsoe).

In 2001 Bill Belichick started off 0-2 (with Drew Bledsoe as his starter).

I know the truth.

Bill Belichick had a career losing record of 41-57 by the time Tom Brady ever made his first start vs. Peyton Manning and Indianapolis (16 games below .500% @ only .418% throughout his first 98 games without Tom Brady).

And then here comes Tom Brady. And Bill Belichick never looked back.

I'll agree to disagree and after this post just walk away from this conversation.

Because I feel that Tom Brady is the greatest QB of All-Time and that Bill Belichick (as an NFL HEAD COACH) is a career loser without Tom Brady and an absolute fraud who can never (and will never) win a SB (as an NFL HC) without Tom Brady.

And that's what's great about sports. It's our right to feel how we feel about certain players/coaches and I also personally believe that Andy Reid is a much better coach (without Patrick Mahomes) than Bill Belichick is (without Tom Brady) and I don't think the numbers are lying to me.

Look man.

All I truly know is that as an NFL Head Coach ******Bill Belichick****** is only a career losing 72-81 (.470%) and only 1-2 in the playoffs (without Tom Brady) and that is despite 13 other QBs (not named Tom Brady) throughout 9.2 years worth of coaching (no small sample size).

(That's my story and I'm sticking to it (until Bill Belichick can not only advance past the 2nd round but also win a SB (without Tom Brady) in order to prove me wrong).

And in closing I'll agree to disagree and walk away from this conversation (because once profanity starts being used while simply talking Football and sharing our opinions; that's when I no longer want anything to do with it).

please forgive the use of profanity...you are correct, and Belli isn't worth it to me.

CLEVE...i cannot beg you enough to watch "A Football Life Cleveland Browns 1995". Educate yourself on the history of his run in Cleve.
After 1994, they were picked by multiple sources to make the SB. See what really happened to his 4 real years there before citing the stats.
context is everything!

NYJ...again, you cite Parcells's magic rise in a season...who did he bring in to head his Defense? he did it over and over again. sort of says something.

NE (and CLEVE for that matter)...this is where you're hypocritical in regards to allowing Saleh and JD institute a long term strategy for perennial success, but your stats falsely prove what you want them to, because you do not allow Belli to have a long term strategy for the same.

 

[butterscotch]

he is absolutely allowed to have and encouraged to share his opinions.
I am merely pointing out that stats used as empirical data "and" without context do not prove points.

FTR, i cannot stand either of them. it pains me to articulate Belli's greatness, but the man is a genius.

I feel just like you do

 

[butterscotch]

Thank you kindly man.

I always use the eye test first and foremost but ever since my childhood days of my mom buying me sports cards, I couldn't care less about the picture on the front of the card but instead became addicted to comparing the statistics of players (on the back of the card) and around age 5-6 years old I became a statistical junkie.

Moving forward here on JFU I'll begin to use less statistics while talking sports but in my defence what would the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL Hall of Fame be without evidence and proof (known as statistics)? Because there wouldn't even be an NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL H.O.F (without, stats).

But no. I don't like people using profanity towards me and all because of the statistics I'm posting doesn't agree with their agenda so therefore I'd like to use less statistics moving forward.

I'm done with this conversation. I just hope that Bill Belichick never wins a SB as NFL head coach (without TB12) because if so? I'll have a lot of eating crow to do () but fortunately for me? I know that he's never been able to and can never/will never do ().

funny I always looked at the face of the card first so I could imagine my face on the card lol. I guess they should have had a Mascott card. I grew up playing Strat-0-matic with a very famous Baseball GM in the mid 60's to late 70's so stats were also big for me. But i like to use Roger Maris as an example his stats on my Cards were not as good as his stats for the Yanks but he still was a very, very good player. Same with Don Maynard in the Super Bowl. But i am done with this too. I also should say that I did some stats for the yanks for a time in the late 60's lol....not the stats you are talking about.

Wow that means I got paid by the yanks....wow I feel dirty

 

[beresford]

Of course you can't talk about Brady without remembering the part the Jets (Mo Lewis) played in his creation. Belichick may be Dr Frankenstein but the Jets were Igor.

 

[Bigmoe]

They are like an Arthur Avenue Italian combo great together

I knew I loved you for some reason!!!!!

 

[butterscotch]

Of course you can't talk about Brady without remembering the part the Jets (Mo Lewis) played in his creation. Belichick may be Dr Frankenstein but the Jets were Igor.

so should we get part of the credit for all those SB's...I like that lol

 

[butterscotch]

I knew I loved you for some reason!!!!!

the best food & I have not been there in 30 years lol. On what G pays me I am lucky to get scraps......Just kidding G I love the dishes & free beer but does it have to be root beer

 

[cheaterhater]

That is simply, not true man.

Matt Cassel under Bill Belichick (2008):
10-5 overall.
327/515 (63.4%).
3,693 Passing Yards.
21 TDs.
11 INTs.
Sacked 47x.
QB RATING OF 89.4.
(No Pro-Bowl).

Vs.

Matt Cassel under Andy Reid (2010).
10-5 overall.
262-450 (58.2%).
3116 Passing Yards.
27 TDs.
7 INTs.
Sacked 26x.
QB RATING of 93.0.
(Yes Pro Bowl).

Matt Cassel had his highest QB Rating (by far) under Andy Reid (not Bill Belichick) and made his only Pro Bowl appearance under Andy Reid (not Bill Belichick).

And speaking of Andy Reid; he's the only HC to ever lead two different teams to 4 consecutive Conference Championship Games (unlike Bill Belichick, Andy Reid is self made and has a career winning % without Patrick Mahomes compared to Bill Belichick who's made by Tom Brady and has a career losing percentage without Tom Brady).

yup. I missed the rating somehow, but 5 points higher in completions and 500 more passing yards in his first season and 11-5. had the Jets game on the last day of that season gone the other way, Matg Cassel goes to the playoffs and ends up SBMVP. no way to prove that but it would have happened

sort of like if Parcells had gone to Ray Lucas sooner instead of trying Mirer, we would have won the SB that year and Ray would have been MVP

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Where the Brady retires post?

 

[Tinstar]

Where the Brady retires post?

Did he announce his retirement ?

 

[cheaterhater]

Where the Brady retires post?

i just did

 

[TonyFtLaud]

Did he announce his retirement ?

Yes, on nfl network now

 

[cheaterhater]

He went 10-5 (not 11-5) because he's not the one who officially started the game (Brady did).

But nonetheless under Andy Reid, Matt Cassel had 6 more TDs and 4 fewer INTs than under Belichick, 21 fewer sacks under Andy Reid than under Bill Belichick, a higher QB Rating under Andy Reid than under Bill Belichick and unlike while under Bill Belichick; he made a Pro Bowl appearance (Andy Reid is the real QB guru).

But can you please explain this (below) to me?

2007: Tom Brady.
18-1 (SB loss).
398/578 (68.9%).
4,806 passing yards.
50 TD passes.
8 INT's (same as 2019).
21 sacks.
117.2 QB Rating.

Vs.

2008: Matt Cassel.
11-5 (completely missed the playoffs).
327/516 (63.4%).
3,693 yards.
21 TD passes.
11 INT's.
47 sacks.
QB Rating of 89.4.

Thoughts on the gigantic drop off in QB production only 1 year later?

big deal. I'll give brady quadrupal all those numbers in 2007. none of that matters, did he win the sperbowl? NO. you can ask brady, he will agree with that

brady started the one game. Cassel finished it. thats 11-5 in my book

you really want to compare bradys best year to someone who had to step into bradys shoes which is hard enough alone, who also has never played before and still goes 11-5? that is freaking ridiculous!!!

 

[skop]

yup. I missed the rating somehow, but 5 points higher in completions and 500 more passing yards in his first season and 11-5. had the Jets game on the last day of that season gone the other way, Matg Cassel goes to the playoffs and ends up SBMVP. no way to prove that but it would have happened

sort of like if Parcells had gone to Ray Lucas sooner instead of trying Mirer, we would have won the SB that year and Ray would have been MVP

sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...

It was all Cassell. Belli and his systems had nothing to do with it. Cassell saved Belli that year by winning 11 games for him. He hadn't started a single game SINCE HIGH SCHOOL, but he came in saved Belli's bacon.

I heard that in the off-season, Cassell told Belli who to draft, who to cut, who to pick up in FA, the schemes for offense, the schemes for defense, which plays they were going to single out for their situational drills...2008 was all Cassell.

then he went to be Reid's QB, forgot everything, and Reid coached him up because Reid is not a fraud.

In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...

What DWC doesn't realize with the stats from when Belli took over in NE, is:

1.) the processes he was putting into place were coming to fruition when Brady took over.
2.) Bledsoe at one time was a total stud, and went to a SB, but was shot with PTSD from a porous OLine after the SB Run, and no #28 to take the pressure off the passing game...something he later admitted, and never recovered from.
3.) That "the death by a million cut offense" was all Belli's creation.
4.) That Brady is on film in Belli's offense going over the D he was about to face...this was routine, bc Belli is probably the best DC ever.
who better to shoe holes in D's, and expose weaknesses.

 

[cheaterhater]

sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...sarcasm alert...

It was all Cassell. Belli and his systems had nothing to do with it. Cassell saved Belli that year by winning 11 games for him. He hadn't started a single game SINCE HIGH SCHOOL, but he came in saved Belli's bacon.

I heard that in the off-season, Cassell told Belli who to draft, who to cut, who to pick up in FA, the schemes for offense, the schemes for defense, which plays they were going to single out for their situational drills...2008 was all Cassell.

then he went to be Reid's QB, forgot everything, and Reid coached him up because Reid is not a fraud.

In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...In all seriousness...

What DWC doesn't realize with the stats from when Belli took over in NE, is:

1.) the processes he was putting into place were coming to fruition when Brady took over.
2.) Bledsoe at one time was a total stud, and went to a SB, but was shot with PTSD from a porous OLine after the SB Run, and no #28 to take the pressure off the passing game...something he later admitted, and never recovered from.
3.) That "the death by a million cut offense" was all Belli's creation.
4.) That Brady is on film in Belli's offense going over the D he was about to face...this was routine, bc Belli is probably the best DC ever.
who better to shoe holes in D's, and expose weaknesses.

I like you!

 

[skop]

He went 10-5 (not 11-5) because he's not the one who officially started the game (Brady did).
/QUOTE]

Actually, the victory should go to Cassel. Brady didn't lead the Pats to a single point in the 17 to 10 win. All scoring drives were Cassel's.

 

[cheaterhater]

Finally. Tom Brady is gone.

Despised (more like feared him) from the age of 16 (2001) to age 36 (2022).

Just crazy for me to comprehend.

But at the end of the day (like Michael Jordan) I respect his greatness and will always consider him the GOAT QB.

(Patrick Mahomes has a long ways to to and a lot more Championships to go before taking that GOAT title).

Tampa Bay will go another 12 years of no Playoffs and fall off a cliff because of Tom Brady leaving them in the dust and me living in Tampa Bay and not being able to stand/stomach their fake bandwagon "fan base" brings music to my ears

and everyone who went to TB to play with TB, will also be on the way out too. if they don't win, that might be part of the reason.

heck, they didn't win this year even with tom brady. imagine that. with the 29th ranked strength of schedule too

they should have had belichick coach, he would never have lost twice to the Rams. oh wait he's a fraud

 

[skop]

and everyone who went to TB to play with TB, will also be on the way out too. if they don't win, that might be part of the reason.

heck, they didn't win this year even with tom brady. imagine that. with the 29th ranked strength of schedule too

they should have had belichick coach, he would never have lost twice to the Rams. oh wait he's a fraud

a lot of the Bucs team that won was in place for TB12...that's why he chose to go there. to go from a team in rebuild mode, or maybe reload mode to an instant contender with a Pro-Bowl QB.

i wonder why he didn't go to the Jets... he could have saved Gase's job for 20 years there too.

 

[cheaterhater]

a lot of the Bucs team that won was in place for TB12...that's why he chose to go there. to go from a team in rebuild mode, or maybe reload mode to an instant contender with a Pro-Bowl QB.

i wonder why he didn't go to the Jets... he could have saved Gase's job for 20 years there too.

you are on a roll!

 

[cheaterhater]

here you go @DefenseWinsChampionships

Retire?

Brady still has to prove he can carry a franchise without elite defenses, HOFers, and a quality management team to buoy him.

Defense and HOFers win championships, and Brady was buoyed by elite defenses and HOFers his entire career.

With Brady, the Pats fielded the following defenses:

Top 5 Defense 8 times
Top 10 Defense 8 times
Top 15 Defense once
Bottom 20 Defense twice
Bottom 25 Defense - Never
Bottom 30 defense - Never

Compare these stellar defenses to Rodgers terrible defenses. With Rodgers, the Packers fielded the following defenses:

Top 5 Defense once
Top 10 Defense three times
Top 15 Defense three times
Bottom 20 Defense once
Bottom 25 Defense four times
Bottom 30 defense once

Now let’s compare HOFers and potential HOFers:

Brady:

Bill Belichick (Lock)
Rob Gronkowski (Lock)
Ty Law (In)
Randy Moss (In)
Logan Mankins
Rodney Harrison
Richard Seymour
Tedy Bruschi
Vince Wilfork
Adam Vinatieri

Rodgers:
Charles Woodson (In)
Clay Matthews
Julius Peppers
Anyone else? I’ll wait…

The hard truth for Bradyites to acknowledge is that Brady is a QB that landed in a system where he wasn’t asked to do much:

game manage, don’t turn the ball over, move the chains, and trust Belichick’s defenses.

“But Brady is great in the postseason.”

Yeah, let me debunk that.

Check out these playoff stats:

- In 72% of playoff games, Brady threw for two TDs or less

- 63% of playoff games were 200+ or 100+ yard games

- 49% of playoff games were 200+ yard games

- 37% of playoff games were 300+ yards games, but in 12% of those games he equaled or threw more INTs than TDs

- He has only two 400+ yard playoff games
(Including comeback against the Falcons, but he only threw two TDs in that game)

- Record of 1-3 vs. Manning in AFC Championships

(in other words, he had to go around Manning to win those rings)

- Record of 3-5 vs. Brees all-time

- Record of 2-3 vs. Manning (Eli) all-time, and 0-2 in Super Bowls

Note: Stats compiled up to 2020

Sent from my iPhone