Remember when we kept saying there's no Andrew Luck in this draft?

[Pointdexter]

We were wrong. This makes the annual late season winning streak that much more nauseating.

ESPN NFL draft analyst Todd McShay said Monday morning on the Mike & Mike show that Jameis Winston is one of the top quarterbacks that he has evaluated in recent years.

McShay said the former Florida State star is one of the top quarterbacks he's evaluated as far as being NFL-ready in the last decade, putting him second to only Andrew Luck.

"If you're just grading off of what you see on tape, he'll have the second-highest quarterback grade that I will have given in the last 10 years," McShay said. "He's a unique player."

After seeing Winston and former Oregon standout Marcus Mariota on film and at the NFL combine, McShay praised both players. He specifically referenced the "high football IQ" of both quarterbacks. But he feels there is a gap between Winston and Mariota.

"I think there is separation," McShay said. "Jameis Winston, to me at least, on the tape, there is a difference. You watch the pro-style system that he is in, you see the anticipation throws that he makes from inside the pocket. I think he has natural accuracy."

 

[Elias]

We were wrong. This makes the annual late season winning streak that much more nauseating.

ESPN NFL draft analyst Todd McShay said Monday morning on the Mike & Mike show that Jameis Winston is one of the top quarterbacks that he has evaluated in recent years.

McShay said the former Florida State star is one of the top quarterbacks he's evaluated as far as being NFL-ready in the last decade, putting him second to only Andrew Luck.

"If you're just grading off of what you see on tape, he'll have the second-highest quarterback grade that I will have given in the last 10 years," McShay said. "He's a unique player."

After seeing Winston and former Oregon standout Marcus Mariota on film and at the NFL combine, McShay praised both players. He specifically referenced the "high football IQ" of both quarterbacks. But he feels there is a gap between Winston and Mariota.

"I think there is separation," McShay said. "Jameis Winston, to me at least, on the tape, there is a difference. You watch the pro-style system that he is in, you see the anticipation throws that he makes from inside the pocket. I think he has natural accuracy."

Such a shame.... Jets always hurt themselves. Congrats Geno on your perfect QB rating in week 17!

 

[Superman55]

That pro system he's in...you know the one that helped Christian Ponder and EJ Manuel succeed in the NFL...wait....no it didn't....

Well, if "made for ESPN" Todd McShay calls him the next Andrew Luck, it must be so...I remember his mock draft before the senior bowl 2 years ago when he penciled Glennon into the top 10, then he watched the senior bowl and pushed him back down into rd 2...like everything else on ESPN, his opinion is entertaining, nothing else.

Winston is like Andrew Luck? Huh. We shall see....sounds a lot like when ESPN had Teo going #1 and called him Ray Lewis...how'd that "made for TV" comment work out (and Kiper's Feb mock draft for the record)? Not so well as I recollect.

Winston is as much like Andrew Luck as I am.

 

[hobson54]

Such a shame.... Jets always hurt themselves. Congrats Geno on your perfect QB rating in week 17!

winston is going #1 . we finished with 2 more wins than both tennessee and tampa.

 

[Superman55]

winston is going #1 . we finished with 2 more wins than both tennessee and tampa.

Never had a shot at him; and honestly, I think tampa is one of the better places for him to have success. Keeps him in Florida, I like Tampa for him better than NYC, and hopefully they will be more patient/optimistic with him while he works out his kinks...as the local legend.

I think him landing in Tampa was meant to work out the way it did. I hope it works out for him and Lovie, they will hopefully be good for each other.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

I don't put Winston in the elite QB prospect category like Luck, but that aside, one thing you can always count on as a Jets fan, if the team is having a miserable season, they will always find a way to make it worse by winning a meaningless game or two in December, especially if there's a QB or player who could make a big difference at the top of the board.

This franchise has never, ever, ever, ever, ever mastered the art of strategic tanking.

 

[cysporsche]

I don't put Winston in the elite QB prospect category like Luck, but that aside, one thing you can always count on as a Jets fan, if the team is having a miserable season, they will always find a way to make it worse by winning a meaningless game or two in December, especially if there's a QB or player who could make a big difference at the top of the board.

This franchise has never, ever, ever, ever, ever mastered the art of strategic tanking.

You play to win the game. The only team I have ever seen tank a season is the NY Knicks in the NBA and I guess that why they have a ping pong ball lottery. You won't ever see a NFL player, coach or team tank a game for a shot @ a better draft pick. I was loving the spanking Geno & the Jets put on the Flippers for the 2nd year in a row.

Go Jets...Cyborg

 

[Superman55]

You play to win the game. The only team I have ever seen tank a season is the NY Knicks in the NBA and I guess that why they have a ping pong ball lottery. You won't ever see a NFL player, coach or team tank a game for a shot @ a better draft pick. I was loving the spanking Geno & the Jets put on the Flippers for the 2nd year in a row.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Agreed. It is so hard to get and stay in the NFL you will rarely see an NFL player look lousy on tape on purpose. In the NFL, the saying is "you are what your tape says you are," that goes for players of all ages. I dont see players purposely putting their own career on the line so the team and fans can have a better draft pick. I dont see it happening.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

You play to win the game. The only team I have ever seen tank a season is the NY Knicks in the NBA and I guess that why they have a ping pong ball lottery. You won't ever see a NFL player, coach or team tank a game for a shot @ a better draft pick. I was loving the spanking Geno & the Jets put on the Flippers for the 2nd year in a row.

Go Jets...Cyborg

The Pittsburgh Penguins tanked for Mario Lemieux, in fact it was so obvious that there was an outcry to change the rules so the worst team wasn't assured the #1 Pick, but they didn't care, they kept on playing mostly minor leaguers and thats how you "strategically" tank, the operative word being "strategically", not by intentionally losing or telling your players not to go all out, but simply by playing a bunch of young guys and calling it player evaluations, which is what Pittsburgh did and it got them Super Mario, which turned into a whole bunch of Stanley Cups.

If you tell me the Pens shouldn't have tanked like that, I'll tell you you're lost.

Was there a player like that to tank for this year? I would say NO, but if the prize was Andrew Luck, they would have been stupid not to strategically tank in December if it meant securing the #1 Pick.

And if you think the Colts didn't strategically tank down the stretch and "suck for luck", think again.

 

[jets82]

Such a shame.... Jets always hurt themselves. Congrats Geno on your perfect QB rating in week 17!

Lol and it's truly not funny at all. The Jets screwed themselves when they beat the Steelers really (if I'm correct). It was either the Steelers or whomever the third team was they beat. With two wins the Jets would have a lock for the #1 spot I believe. Anything after that killed them.

 

[hobson54]

I don't put Winston in the elite QB prospect category like Luck, but that aside, one thing you can always count on as a Jets fan, if the team is having a miserable season, they will always find a way to make it worse by winning a meaningless game or two in December, especially if there's a QB or player who could make a big difference at the top of the board.

This franchise has never, ever, ever, ever, ever mastered the art of strategic tanking.

not sure if there was intentional tanking involved, but the jets were in great position after finishing 1-15 in 1996 and had a chance at a franchise QB, until peyton manning decided to not enter the draft because (reportedly) parcells wouldn't guarantee him he would draft him #1 . i'm so happy my man charles woodson beat peyton out for the heisman the next year.

this was compounded by parcells trading down not once, but twice, and missing on future hall of famers orlando pace and walter jones and ending up with james farrior and a collection of crappy picks, most of which turned out to be nothing.

parcells did tons of good for the franchise, but to this day i can't believe how bad he botched that draft (the manning part is speculation, so i'm only talking about the awful double trade down)

 

[jets82]

I don't put Winston in the elite QB prospect category like Luck, but that aside, one thing you can always count on as a Jets fan, if the team is having a miserable season, they will always find a way to make it worse by winning a meaningless game or two in December, especially if there's a QB or player who could make a big difference at the top of the board.

This franchise has never, ever, ever, ever, ever mastered the art of strategic tanking.

Agreed 1, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000 percent. Hopefully with this regime tanking won't be a question because they will win a lot more then they will lose.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Agreed. It is so hard to get and stay in the NFL you will rarely see an NFL player look lousy on tape on purpose. In the NFL, the saying is "you are what your tape says you are," that goes for players of all ages. I dont see players purposely putting their own career on the line so the team and fans can have a better draft pick. I dont see it happening.

Super, I agree that you can never go to a professional player in any sport and ask him to give anything less than his all. If you do that as a coach, you will definitely lose the locker-room. You will lose the respect of your players and you will lose the room. Can't do it. But there are plenty of other ways you can tank games as a coach that has nothing to do with the effort. You can play a ton of young guys down the stretch on a losing team and call it player evaluations, which is how the Pens tanked for Lemieux, and you can call a conservative game from the sidelines. Thats why the operative word is "strategic" tanking, and I've seen teams do it plenty, in every sport except baseball where the draft doesn't hold the same immediate impact, going all the way back to the Bucks tanking for Kareem, and NFL teams do it too.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

not sure if there was intentional tanking involved, but the jets were in great position after finishing 1-15 in 1996 and had a chance at a franchise QB, until peyton manning decided to not enter the draft because (reportedly) parcells wouldn't guarantee him he would draft him [URL=http://nyjetsfanatics.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] . i'm so happy my man charles woodson beat peyton out for the heisman the next year.

this was compounded by parcells trading down not once, but twice, and missing on future hall of famers orlando pace and walter jones and ending up with james farrior and a collection of crappy picks, most of which turned out to be nothing.

parcells did tons of good for the franchise, but to this day i can't believe how bad he botched that draft (the manning part is speculation, so i'm only talking about the awful double trade down)

I heard the same story about Parcells refusing to guarantee Peyton he would be the #1 Pick, and if thats true, he did way more damage to this franchise with that one colossal mistake than all of the good he did in the few years he was here. That was the kind of mistake that alters the fate of your franchise for a generation!

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Agreed 1, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000 percent. Hopefully with this regime tanking won't be a question because they will win a lot more then they will lose.

True, my dream is to have a franchise that never even has to consider tanking down the stretch because they are always in the hunt. God willing Bowles and Mac will deliver that kind of elite franchise. Lord knows its our turn.

 

[Pointdexter]

That pro system he's in...you know the one that helped Christian Ponder and EJ Manuel succeed in the NFL...wait....no it didn't....

Well, if "made for ESPN" Todd McShay calls him the next Andrew Luck, it must be so...I remember his mock draft before the senior bowl 2 years ago when he penciled Glennon into the top 10, then he watched the senior bowl and pushed him back down into rd 2...like everything else on ESPN, his opinion is entertaining, nothing else.

Winston is like Andrew Luck? Huh. We shall see....sounds a lot like when ESPN had Teo going #1 and called him Ray Lewis...how'd that "made for TV" comment work out (and Kiper's Feb mock draft for the record)? Not so well as I recollect.

Winston is as much like Andrew Luck as I am.

Look, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest. With that said, Ponder and EJ are not succeeding in the NFL because they aren't good enough. Period. Regarding McShay, if you think you know more than he does than I will say that you're delusional. This is a hobby to us; part time. He spends all day just watching tapes of players and doing homework. How many hours of Winston game tape have you studied again? Zero? Exactly.

The Kipers and McShays of the world aren't perfect, but then again neither are guys named Parcells, Polian, and Wolf. The bottom line is we like to think we know a lot reading articles and watching games on tv when we can. But if we were to go to a bar with McShay for a couple beers tonight, he would make your head spin with the depth of information he has on these prospects.

I'm not saying we should take his word as gospel, but to dismiss his opinion (more educated than any of us here) is just silly. So is Winston as good he says? Maybe and maybe not. But his opinion that he's the 2nd highest rated QB in the draft in the last 10 years is significant, no matter how much you try to discredit him.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Poindexter, I have a lot of respect for the draftniks who spend an inordinate amount of time studying these players, but as the draft draws near I like to contrast their opinions and evaluations with what the real pros are saying, guys like Gil Brandt, Daniel Jeremiah, Bill Polian etc., guys who actually did it for NFL teams and did it at a high level. If I see that they are at least in the same general vicinity as the amateur draftniks on a particular player then I feel like the evaluations are probably right, but if I see a wide disparity either way, that tells me the draftniks are probably off.

That said, there seems to be a consensus with the draftniks and the professionals on Winston, so I'm okay with McShay's POV. I personally don't have Winston in that elite class, but there's at least a consensus that he's the #1 Guy and he might be special. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm right and everyone else is wrong. If they're all saying the kid is special, I should at least entertain that possibility.

 

[jets82]

True, my dream is to have a franchise that never even has to consider tanking down the stretch because they are always in the hunt. God willing Bowles and Mac will deliver that kind of elite franchise. Lord knows its our turn.

Agreed my friend. Hopefully with the edition of one of these top three WRs, Decker, Harvin (hopefully at a reasonable price for the team), Kerley and Amaro and Cumberland and a beefed up o-line, Geno can improve greatly and we will be in the hunt. Nothing like knowing your team doesn't have to tank and its not a option because they are good enough not to even think about it. Even in the bad years, its still not a consideration. Thats where I hope the Jets will be someday.

Note: I know Harvin's contract comes with that guaranteed money (I believe) so if the Jets have to cut him and resign him (if possible at their price) then take the chance and do it. I can't see anyone paying Percy 10 mil or more a year and the Jets BETTER NOT DO IT. Harvin isn't worth that much.

 

[Pointdexter]

Having your own opinion is great. Nothing wrong with that at all. I love coming here for the various opinions and perspectives.

It's just when someone with very limited info (Joe Message Board Poster) tries to tear apart the credibility/opinion of someone with much greater info (Kiper/McShay). It's very vogue to do it but it's, at best, ridiculous.

It's analogous to this: if you were in the 10th row, just above the 1st base bag, at a baseball game and I was in the bleachers in left field, yet I was trying to argue with you over a call that was made at 1st base. Yes, we both have opinions and neither can be 100%. It's just your opinion in that scenario is based on a much closer view with details and intricacies that my left field perspective couldn't possibly afford. I might still have my opinion but I certainly wouldn't be acting like yours, with a much more detailed view, didn't matter.

 

[Johnny Unite Us]

You play to win the game. The only team I have ever seen tank a season is the NY Knicks in the NBA and I guess that why they have a ping pong ball lottery. You won't ever see a NFL player, coach or team tank a game for a shot @ a better draft pick. I was loving the spanking Geno & the Jets put on the Flippers for the 2nd year in a row.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Especially when the coach know he is not going to be there the next season.