The case NOT to extend Mo Wilkerson

[Jet Setter]

I agree with Hyatt. I posted an argument weeks ago and heard nothing but crickets. My rationale was that it wasn't financially prudent to tie up over 27M to a position (3-4 DE) that regularly gets double teamed and isn't responsible for attaining sacks. I also asked everyone if they've ever heard of so much money going to players at one position on the same team. Again, crickets.

Richardson is going to command 13M easily, probably closer to 15 at the rate of cap inflation. If Wilk demands more than 11, I trade him. No way I'm typing up that kind of money at DE in a 3-4. And no one else has ever done it. It's not money well spent IMO. With the sudden added burden financially on the secondary, how is this possible? Not to mention Harrison in the middle who happens to be one of the very best run stuffers in the NFL?

I think some of you need to make a compelling argument in how you expect this to work financially instead of just claiming you want him re-signed. Yeah, we want everyone but that's not the simple answer in every case. You can't keep everyone at mega-deal rates. Maybe Mike already made his decision on this based on all the spending. We'll see.

 

[sg3]

Extend Mo NOW

With a real 21st century mind as his new HC and with better assistants replacing Thurman the puppet and the other sycophant assistants, Mo and the rest of the DL high picks might be ready to blossom into the true quarterback.crushing force they can be this season

 

[Bronx]

What if you take that chance and he Sheldon are FA at the same time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jets82]

I don't agree with this all though I understand were your thought process is here. MO is a true leader and team player that gives 110% every game so you got pay guys like what they are worth. Sends the wrong message if you don't. Hopefully by the time Richardson turn comes up to get paid, guys like Revis and Cro will be wiling to take a pay cut if need be to keep everyone. They been getting paid for Alot longer then the younger players like Wilkerson, Harrison, Davis and Richardson etc... Besides, the younger guys have seen how players like Revis has held and got what they wanted or became mercenaries and just went to the highest bidder. I'm sure Revis is already schooling Wilkerson, Richardson etc about this, so if the Jets don't do them right we may just lose them.

 

[Jet Setter]

I don't agree with this all though I understand were your thought process is here. MO is a true leader and team player that gives 110% every game so you got pay guys like what they are worth. Sends the wrong message if you don't. Hopefully by the time Richardson turn comes up to get paid, guys like Revis and Cro will be wiling to take a pay cut if need be to keep everyone. They been getting paid for Alot longer then the younger players like Wilkerson, Harrison, Davis and Richardson etc... Besides, the younger guys have seen how players like Revis has held and got what they wanted or became mercenaries and just went to the highest bidder. I'm sure Revis is already schooling Wilkerson, Richardson etc about this, so if the Jets don't do them right we may just lose them.

We all know he's a great guy but do you simply give him what he wants? He wants JJ Watt money. And trust me, so will Richardson. Do you over-expense a position that will not allow you to keep other players or improve other positions? 3-4 DE? It's not exactly an impactful position.
Richardson will cost a pretty penny. So will Harrison. That entire front line combined with that expensive secondary will bankrupt the offense. You won't have that team balance you seek. All the cash goes to defense. It's like Rex never left. Be careful what you ask for.

I don't think Mike has any allegiance to the precious regime's building of this team that drafted three straight DLinemen in the 1st round for which the payday to extend is looming. Wilk didn't exactly have a banner year last season and got hurt down the stretch and is reportedly asking for the moon.

I'm with Hyatt for different reasons that I approach this negotiation from a position of skepticism...why do we need to expense so much money to Wilk and Richardson. Sheldon's the real talent there and combined with Harrison, I firmly believe you could plug in just about anyone at the other 3-4 DE position and you wouldn't notice Mo missing.

 

[Savage69]

Wow.

FINALLY, a site where we can disagree on a topic and debate it without resorting to name-calling and finger-pointing and that sort of nonsense.

I love Mo Wilkerson as a player. And, I totally understand your points on why we should lock him up right now. Homegrown, great player, hard worker, team player. I get it. I LOVE the guy.

I'm just trying to present a business reason why it may not make sense to lock him up right now. And, I think it's a legitimate business reason.

The Jets need a QB. They have Wilkerson and Richardson under contract at very low prices. Having two high-quality players like that under their rookie deals is a HUGE advantage. Don't give that advantage away unless you have to.

Let them play this season, at least, under their rookie deals. THEY signed those contracts, let them play them out.

The franchise tag was created specifically for this type of situation. USE IT!

That's all I'm saying.

Again, I LOVE both players, I'm just looking at this from a business perspective.

Jared Allen was a All Pro with 43 sacks in 4 years and was traded to the Vikes by KC so stuff like that does happen..

 

[jets82]

We all know he's a great guy but do you simply give him what he wants? He wants JJ Watt money. And trust me, so will Richardson. Do you over-expense a position that will not allow you to keep other players or improve other positions? 3-4 DE? It's not exactly an impactful position.
Richardson will cost a pretty penny. So will Harrison. That entire front line combined with that expensive secondary will bankrupt the offense. You won't have that team balance you seek. All the cash goes to defense. It's like Rex never left. Be careful what you ask for.

I don't think Mike has any allegiance to the precious regime's building of this team that drafted three straight DLinemen in the 1st round for which the payday to extend is looming. Wilk didn't exactly have a banner year last season and got hurt down the stretch and is reportedly asking for the moon.

I'm with Hyatt for different reasons that I approach this negotiation from a position of skepticism...why do we need to expense so much money to Wilk and Richardson. Sheldon's the real talent there and combined with Harrison, I firmly believe you could plug in just about anyone at the other 3-4 DE position and you wouldn't notice Mo missing.

Wouldn't notice MO missing, slow your roll there buddy. Also calling Richardson the true talent I would be careful with that statement also. I would say they are equally talented and more so maybe Wilkerson. Him being double teamed allows Richardson to truly cause havoc. It's all debatable though I will admit. I will say your right you can't pay everyone what they want and that's why negotiations are the key here. Also, I'm hoping and I know it won't happen that players like Revis and Cro just might take pay cuts to keep this team togehter. Pipe dream I know but allow me to please reach here.

 

[ucrenegade]

Wouldn't notice MO missing, slow your roll there buddy. Also calling Richardson the true talent I would be careful with that statement also. I would say they are equally talented and more so maybe Wilkerson. Him being double teamed allows Richardson to truly cause havoc. It's all debatable though I will admit. I will say your right you can't pay everyone what they want and that's why negotiations are the key here. Also, I'm hoping and I know it won't happen that players like Revis and Cro just might take pay cuts to keep this team togehter. Pipe dream I know but allow me to please reach here.

you have to remember also brick and mangold's contract is up in a few years 2017 i believe

 

[Jet Setter]

Wouldn't notice MO missing, slow your roll there buddy. Also calling Richardson the true talent I would be careful with that statement also. I would say they are equally talented and more so maybe Wilkerson. Him being double teamed allows Richardson to truly cause havoc. It's all debatable though I will admit. I will say your right you can't pay everyone what they want and that's why negotiations are the key here. Also, I'm hoping and I know it won't happen that players like Revis and Cro just might take pay cuts to keep this team togehter. Pipe dream I know but allow me to please reach here.

You're wrong about Mo drawing more doubles. But believe what you want. 3-4 DE's routinely get doubled.
CB pay cuts aren't going to happen for a while.
I like Mo, but I will not be whoa'd into changing my opinion that his value isn't what the masses believe. He's a good player, but not indespensible. Not by a long shot and not with the prevailing talent surrounding him on the DLine as I've explained and even repeated. You don't have to agree. Do you believe he's worth 13M+? That's rumored to be what he's asking. Would you pay it? If you could only keep one star 3-4 DE, which one would you keep?

And I am certain Richardson is the far better prospect. No doubt in my mind.

 

[Johnny Unite Us]

This has been a great discussion so far, and I'm glad most of you are willing to look past the knee-jerk reaction which is: "Mo is great, sign him now!"

Mo is great, don't get me wrong. And, I want him on this team. But, at the same time, I know that if I want to build a championship team, I may not be able to pay BOTH Mo and Sheldon. And, if I have to choose one, it might be Sheldon.

That's why I let them both play this year under their rookie contracts.

If by this time next year (March/April/May) I still haven't found a solution at QB, then I franchise Mo and let Sheldon play out his rookie contract.

Hyatt - I never said franchise them multiple times. I'm simply trying to buy one more season while I have Revis and Cromartie under contract. I understand that if I franchise Mo, I'll be paying him top-5 money for one season. I'm willing to do that. And, if he earns it, I'm willing to give him JJ Watt money at the same time that Revis' really big money comes off the books (2017).

My goal right now, would be to get to 2017 without having invested huge money in either Mo or Sheldon. I would, for lack of a better word, string them along for a while.

I think you guys are overestimating what kind of "signal" that sends to players. Who cares about signals?

The Pats treat their players like meat. The have no problem making a guy play out the last year of a cheap contract, or cutting a "star" when they determine he makes too much money.

I would let the MO/Sheldon situation play out for at least another year. Then make a decision.

 

[sg3]

Mo is great. Sign him NOW

[emoji39]

 

[LIJETFAN]

Mo is great. Sign him NOW

[emoji39]

I think you try to keep your cornerstone players. I think the Jet can keep both Mo and Richardson. You will see some cost savings in other areas over time. There is enough cap room to maneuver and the Jets do not have to pay a QB top money. So they can build a complete roster. This team is going to be built around the defense. And Wilkerson, Richardson and Revis are the big three. You keep them all for the next three or four years to try to make a run at a championship.

 

[HYATT™]

Here's the deal, Roger, in HYATT™'s analysis.

A.) The Jets DL is a matter of Mo, Snacks, AND Richardson.
It's not about one or the other being better, it's about the SYNERGY, of all 3 being in the right place at the right time, in the right frame of mind, to be clear in their understanding of each other's moves on the field.
You MIGHT be able to substitute for one of them, but more than one will inevitably destroy the Jets DL effectiveness.

The best examples I can give is the 2X Super Bowl NYG & 2X PIT DLs of a few years ago.
Reshuffling a 4-3 DL is quite a bit easier than doing it for a 3-4 DL, as evidenced by Reese rebuilding his in a matter of a few years and PIT having never recovered from the decline & retirement of theirs.

B.) The thing is, and I realize most people don't understand this, Mo is the engine of that train. Snacks is the freight cars & Sheldon is the caboose.
NT is the hardest to replace physically, but Mo would be harder because of who he is and what he means to the locker room and the defense ON the field. He is a quiet leader, but he & Harris are the coupled engines driving this Jets defensive train, (which is why Harris continues to get the big bux, incidentally).

You do what you have to do to keep that intact, even if it means sacrificing somewhere else, because when it's gone, it'll be a looooooong time until it comes back again.
As a GM you work feverishly to make sure all 3 DL players know their value AS A TRIO and hopefully they commit to each other as much as the Jets team itself and settle for less money than the Mercenary MEvis did.

3 things are working in the Jets favor to accomplish this however.
1.) The cap is going up - a LOT - over the next few years.
Estimates are that by 2016 the salary cap will hit $160M & could climb as high as $170M-$175M by 2017.
That's $30M extra the Jets can commit to the DL & a franchise QB in the near future, because a franchise QB is still a distant dream that won't be sucking down money until 4 or 5 years from the day the Jets finally land one in the draft.

2.) The recent bump in the asking of super star UFAs has about hit it's peak, based on projected salary cap rises for the 4 year reconciliation period ending in 2016 & the CBA mandated floor cash spending per team. (89% in this 4 year period.)
A new 4 year cycle begins in 2017, with higher minimum floor and mandatory percentage spending. (95%, I believe, cash spending, as opposed to cap hit, which is a different calculation.)

3.) The Jets have a carry forward [roll-over] amount larger than most. This provides a window to get Mo his money NOW, rather than wait for some franchise tag to suck it out of them in a future year when it's no longer available.

 

[hatnlvr]

As long as the new regime continues to manage the cap and give us flexibility I'm all good with keeping that front line in tact. I think it's a no brainer to resign Mo long term, but I hope it's not a cap crippling deal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ucrenegade]

Here's the deal, Roger, in HYATT™'s analysis.

A.) The Jets DL is a matter of Mo, Snacks, AND Richardson.
It's not about one or the other being better, it's about the SYNERGY, of all 3 being in the right place at the right time, in the right frame of mind, to be clear in their understanding of each other's moves on the field.
You MIGHT be able to substitute for one of them, but more than one will inevitably destroy the Jets DL effectiveness.

The best examples I can give is the 2X Super Bowl NYG & 2X PIT DLs of a few years ago.
Reshuffling a 4-3 DL is quite a bit easier than doing it for a 3-4 DL, as evidenced by Reese rebuilding his in a matter of a few years and PIT having never recovered from the decline & retirement of theirs.

B.) The thing is, and I realize most people don't understand this, Mo is the engine of that train. Snacks is the freight cars & Sheldon is the caboose.
NT is the hardest to replace physically, but Mo would be harder because of who he is and what he means to the locker room and the defense ON the field. He is a quiet leader, but he & Harris are the coupled engines driving this Jets defensive train, (which is why Harris continues to get the big bux, incidentally).

You do what you have to do to keep that intact, even if it means sacrificing somewhere else, because when it's gone, it'll be a looooooong time until it comes back again.
As a GM you work feverishly to make sure all 3 DL players know their value AS A TRIO and hopefully they commit to each other as much as the Jets team itself and settle for less money than the Mercenary MEvis did.

3 things are working in the Jets favor to accomplish this however.
1.) The cap is going up - a LOT - over the next few years.
Estimates are that by 2016 the salary cap will hit $160M & could climb as high as $170M-$175M by 2017.
That's $30M extra the Jets can commit to the DL & a franchise QB in the near future, because a franchise QB is still a distant dream that won't be sucking down money until 4 or 5 years from the day the Jets finally land one in the draft.

2.) The recent bump in the asking of super star UFAs has about hit it's peak, based on projected salary cap rises for the 4 year reconciliation period ending in 2016 & the CBA mandated floor cash spending per team. (89% in this 4 year period.)
A new 4 year cycle begins in 2017, with higher minimum floor and mandatory percentage spending. (95%, I believe, cash spending, as opposed to cap hit, which is a different calculation.)

3.) The Jets have a carry forward [roll-over] amount larger than most. This provides a window to get Mo his money NOW, rather than wait for some franchise tag to suck it out of them in a future year when it's no longer available.

Best post I have ever seen from you and no third person.

 

[HYATT™]

Best post I have ever seen from you and no third person.

LOL, wrong on both counts.
You've read better - though I'll allow for personal opinion and taste.
Re-read the first sentence.

"Here's the deal, Roger, in HYATT™'s analysis."

It dun git no mo' 3rd pa-tee dan dat, brah. :smiley-finger004:
The opening sentence casts the entire post into the 3rd person, as re-posted by HYATT™ himself.
(Does that make it 6th person? [3rd person, twice]) <chucklez>

 

[lounap23]

OH Hyatt!!!!

 

[ucrenegade]

LOL, wrong on both counts.
You've read better - though I'll allow for personal opinion and taste.
Re-read the first sentence.

"Here's the deal, Roger, in HYATT™'s analysis."

It dun git no mo' 3rd pa-tee dan dat, brah. :smiley-finger004:
The opening sentence casts the entire post into the 3rd person, as re-posted by HYATT™ himself.
(Does that make it 6th person? [3rd person, twice]) <chucklez>

Well still easier than you saying Hyatt every sentence.

 

[Jet Setter]

This has been a great discussion so far, and I'm glad most of you are willing to look past the knee-jerk reaction which is: "Mo is great, sign him now!"

Mo is great, don't get me wrong. And, I want him on this team. But, at the same time, I know that if I want to build a championship team, I may not be able to pay BOTH Mo and Sheldon. And, if I have to choose one, it might be Sheldon.

That's why I let them both play this year under their rookie contracts.

If by this time next year (March/April/May) I still haven't found a solution at QB, then I franchise Mo and let Sheldon play out his rookie contract.

Hyatt - I never said franchise them multiple times. I'm simply trying to buy one more season while I have Revis and Cromartie under contract. I understand that if I franchise Mo, I'll be paying him top-5 money for one season. I'm willing to do that. And, if he earns it, I'm willing to give him JJ Watt money at the same time that Revis' really big money comes off the books (2017).

My goal right now, would be to get to 2017 without having invested huge money in either Mo or Sheldon. I would, for lack of a better word, string them along for a while.

I think you guys are overestimating what kind of "signal" that sends to players. Who cares about signals?

The Pats treat their players like meat. The have no problem making a guy play out the last year of a cheap contract, or cutting a "star" when they determine he makes too much money.

I would let the MO/Sheldon situation play out for at least another year. Then make a decision.

The bottom line to me is he ISN'T great. He wants money translated into his being great, but he's not. He's good. Not dominant. But he's demanding pay of a great player. I think if he continues this tack, in light of the money being doled out and Richardson's deal looming and knowing this isn't as impactful a position as CB or pass rusher, he's not going to get a long-term deal in place from this team.

I think a lot of you are defending him in the same way you did David Harris. You like stable leaders retained and you place a high price tag over the so-called loyalty factor. I think this is a bit overrated. If Wilk is a leader on that line and defense, someone will take over that role if/when he leaves. it's a natural progression. Davis would slide into that role for Harris and Richardson likely the same for Wilk. To me, this doesn't count for much financially speaking and especially for a new regime.

 

[Greentilldeath]

I think you try to keep your cornerstone players. I think the Jet can keep both Mo and Richardson. You will see some cost savings in other areas over time. There is enough cap room to maneuver and the Jets do not have to pay a QB top money. So they can build a complete roster. This team is going to be built around the defense. And Wilkerson, Richardson and Revis are the big three. You keep them all for the next three or four years to try to make a run at a championship.

I also believe in keeping cornerstone players, and Mo is one of them. Mo is very good, but not great (see Watt). I think it would be prudent to sign him relatively quickly to an acceptable deal. Richardson will be in year 3 of a rookie contract, so I would take my time with him and handle it the way we did Mo this year. By the time push comes to shove with Richardson, Cromartie will be gone as well as Brick and maybe Mangold. That will free up some decent cap space, as hopefully we will have a decent QB on a rookie contract also, 3 years behind Richardson, before we need to pay that player. Keeping cornerstone players says something positive about the organization...... its just a matter of hitting the right timing with the players