The new "Taunting Penalty"

Green Jets & Ham

King Of All Draftniks
Jet Fanatics
I hate to have to oppose you on this hammer, and I'm not sure the current rule is good. But I think you have to let guys celebrate success. But the celebration has to be within reason. Can't see how you can do that w/o allowing refs to use judgment. And yes, the Jets will probably get screwed a lot by such judgments.
If you believe your team will get screwed, then why support the rule?

There's a term for that kind of thinking, RI ... Stockholm Syndrome

It was coined to describe people who, as a result of prolonged abuse, start to empathize with their abusers.

Too me all this rule does is give the officials another way to rob us, like they did on that Decker call, and I can absolutely see a similar BS call going against us in a pivotal late season or playoff game if our opponent is a marquee team.
 
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Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
If you believe your team will get screwed, then why support the rule?

There's a term for that kind of thinking, RI ... Stockholm Syndrome

It was coined to describe people who, as a result of prolonged abuse, start to empathize with their abusers.

Too me all this rule does is give the officials another way to rob us, like they did on that Decker call, and I can absolutely see a similar BS call going against us in a pivotal late season or playoff game if our opponent is a marquee team.

Don't think I sympathize with our abusers. I just think players should be allowed to celebrate, within reason. And somebody needs to be the judge of what is reasonable, assuming there is some sort of standard for that judgment. Which I assume is part of the rule. And if it isn't, that guidance needs to to added.

Without player celebration, the NFL becomes the No Fun League.

Were you around when there was a USFL? I was, and I recall an advertisement promoting the league featuring Hershel Walker and Doug Flutie. I recall Walker spiking a football and saying something like, "In this league I can do this." Flutie had another example of NFL-prohibited but USFL-tolerated celebration.

I'm just saying players should be allowed to celebrate. But there has to be a penalty of some sort if it borders on, or crosses the border, of taunting, or inciting the other player into retaliation.
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Don't think I sympathize with our abusers. I just think players should be allowed to celebrate, within reason. And somebody needs to be the judge of what is reasonable, assuming there is some sort of standard for that judgment. Which I assume is part of the rule. And if it isn't, that guidance needs to to added.

Without player celebration, the NFL becomes the No Fun League.

Were you around when there was a USFL? I was, and I recall an advertisement promoting the league featuring Hershel Walker and Doug Flutie. I recall Walker spiking a football and saying something like, "In this league I can do this." Flutie had another example of NFL-prohibited but USFL-tolerated celebration.

I'm just saying players should be allowed to celebrate. But there has to be a penalty of some sort if it borders on, or crosses the border, of taunting, or inciting the other player into retaliation.

I'm thinking that the big issue, for me, is that the subjective judgment could lead to a penalty, which hurts the whole team, and made in the heat of the moment by the refs, may not always be applied consistently. But the big issue to me is the penalty. Maybe a solution could be that there is no penalty, but the league reviews incidences of taunting and then THEY are the final arbiter of whether the player should be fined. Penalizing the whole team for actions that don't even happen during game action (but rather during the segments in between plays) could impact actual games, and that kinda stinks to me, because I want the outcome to be determined by football plays, not penalties that happened in between those plays.
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
I'm thinking that the big issue, for me, is that the subjective judgment could lead to a penalty, which hurts the whole team, and made in the heat of the moment by the refs, may not always be applied consistently. But the big issue to me is the penalty. Maybe a solution could be that there is no penalty, but the league reviews incidences of taunting and then THEY are the final arbiter of whether the player should be fined. Penalizing the whole team for actions that don't even happen during game action (but rather during the segments in between plays) could impact actual games, and that kinda stinks to me, because I want the outcome to be determined by football plays, not penalties that happened in between those plays.

I'm not sure a fine by the league would keep some situations from getting out of hand during a game. The refs have to keep a lid on things. Perhaps a lesser penalty, plus an enhancement that a second taunting gets a player disqualified in addition to the yardage. As for officials making bad calls, keep in mind these guys get graded by the league. An official's calls might improve through the season owing to the league feedback. And as Jerry Glanville said to one official after a bad call, "NFL means Not For Long, if you keep making calls like that."
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
I'm not sure a fine by the league would keep some situations from getting out of hand during a game. The refs have to keep a lid on things. Perhaps a lesser penalty, plus an enhancement that a second taunting gets a player disqualified in addition to the yardage. As for officials making bad calls, keep in mind these guys get graded by the league. An official's calls might improve through the season owing to the league feedback. And as Jerry Glanville said to one official after a bad call, "NFL means Not For Long, if you keep making calls like that."

If the players get physical, I think there are already penalties that cover that situation. So I do think this is legitimately an attempt to get players to stop taunting. I like your idea of maybe an ejection for multiple infractions. I have concerns that the outcome of games may be affected by behavior that is, in essence, a fleeting and ultimately not-very-meaningful issue of personal conduct. A pattern of behavior, though, is different. And then at least there would be warning, and I think it would be less arbitrary in application if someone (and by extension the team, and the fans) were punished because the ref determined they were disrupting the game, rather than making a momentary gesture that could hurt the other team's feelings.

The real question is what constitutes taunting? If the standard is "it's like pornography, I know it when I see it," then it leads to real issues of unequal application because ya know, language and gestures can only be understood within context and how someone views a speaker can color their interpretation of what was said. A "celebration" by a favored player could easily be seen as a "taunt" if done by a less favored player. And it isn't a black and white call. When the league goes to grade refs, it will be easy to justify the call made in any given example, but in the aggregate, there may be no prevailing standard. And I think the very creation of the penalty is a signal to the refs that the league wants it to be called, so they will be liberal in applying it. It seems very abstract to me in a league where over the top celebration is routine. I think the refs are impartial as they can be, and I do think they officiate the games with integrity, but this is just a powder keg waiting to explode when it costs a team in an important moment. "Why didn't you call THIS celebration as a penalty?" etc ... to me, I'm not sure the benefit of reducing taunting, even if it is achieved by this penalty, is worth the risks to any individual team. Honestly, I'm surprised they would agree to it.
 

mykcuz

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
This penalty on Decker was because he celebrated in front of another player which invokes the"in your face"taunt penalty. it clearly was not intentional or aimed at the opponent. A warning would have been appropriate.

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Green Jets & Ham

King Of All Draftniks
Jet Fanatics
This penalty on Decker was because he celebrated in front of another player which invokes the"in your face"taunt penalty. it clearly was not intentional or aimed at the opponent. A warning would have been appropriate.
I saw at least a half-dozen celebrations this weekend while watching the Red-Zone Channel that could have been interpreted similarly. If the player played for a marquee franchise, there was no flag for taunting, and I mean celebrations that were more egregious than Decker or Pryor. So far the only teams I see that are really getting the screws put to them with this rule are the Jets and Browns of the league, the Washington Generals teams.

Heck, the Giants alone could have been flagged multiple times for taunting, but not one flag for taunting.
 
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mykcuz

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
I saw at least a half-dozen celebrations this weekend while watching the Red-Zone Channel that could have been interpreted similarly. If the player played for a marquee franchise, there was no flag for taunting, and I mean celebrations that were more egregious than Decker or Pryor. So far the only teams I see that are really getting the screws put to them with this rule are the Jets and Browns of the league, the Washington Generals teams.

Heck, the Giants alone could have been flagged multiple times for taunting, but not one flag for taunting.
Changing the rules of the game every week is annoying.

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Bigmoe

Happily Confused
The Mod Squad
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Antonio Brown way over the top
But I laughed at both
Last year
image.jpg
This year
image.jpg
 

Jet Fan RI

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
Antonio Brown way over the top
But I laughed at both
Last year
View attachment 1613
This year
View attachment 1614


I think in the "this year" case an announcer said someone else who twerked just twice didn't draw a penalty. But Brown twerked 3 times, and he got it. So maybe there are some quantitative standards for doling out taunting calls. And this is a counter-example, where a marquee team gets a taunting call.
 
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