Update Christopher Johnson Listening: Fire Gase Protest

[Gramoah]

Fact is...............we can't, as much as I'd like too, fire Gase now. There is no coach of any degree in the world right now that would consider taking the job. The team is in shambles and playing like shit. Until they get healthy and start playing like they have some idea of what they are supposed to be doing so an outsider can see some potential that might encourage him to give the job a shot a coaching change is highly unlikely to happen. Admittedly the new "O" line isn't helping Sam as much as we had hoped but by the same token he has made some poor decisions. Apparently no one has actually explained to him that throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack is not only smart football, it's also less painful. Maybe this injury will help him to figure that out. ALSO............no way does Pierre Desirs 2 interceptions make up for the number of times he got beat in that game. We needed corners going into the season and as far as I can see we still do. He can find the ball from time to time but he can't cover anyone. Really. Coaching change right now in the realm of beyond hope.

 

[TonyFtLaud]

So I ended up falling asleep on the game, THANK GOD and missed the rest of the fourth quarter. I wasn’t paying that much attention to the game in the first place but I watched the highlights and Sam Darnold was absolutely running for his life the entire game. The highlights showed Darnold getting sacked around 6-7 times, running the ball about 8 more times and getting ragged balled a lot more than that. Two points or questions rather:

1. How is any QB supposed the survive this shit?

2. Can Gase get fired now?

There are QBs who are getting sacked much more than Darnold and thriving.
14 before last night's game. Burrow,Wilson,Hopkins,Minshew, Haskind, Jackson. All playing well above Darnold.
His mechanics are as bad or worse then his time at USC. He still makes rookie mistakes and multiple mental errors every game. He has made no improvement, in fact he has regressed in some areas. Truth is, Darnold sucks throwing from a clean pocket and is at his best on broken plays. That's the only time he shows flashes.

 

[cheaterhater]

There are QBs who are getting sacked much more than Darnold and thriving.
14 before last night's game. Burrow,Wilson,Hopkins,Minshew, Haskind, Jackson. All playing well above Darnold.
His mechanics are as bad or worse then his time at USC. He still makes rookie mistakes and multiple mental errors every game. He has made no improvement, in fact he has regressed in some areas. Truth is, Darnold sucks throwing from a clean pocket and is at his best on broken plays. That's the only time he shows flashes.

that's what I've been afraid of from day 1 with him. he does better on the broken plays and may not play as well even if we have a good line some day. kinda strange

 

[gmf1369]

There are QBs who are getting sacked much more than Darnold and thriving.
14 before last night's game. Burrow,Wilson,Hopkins,Minshew, Haskind, Jackson. All playing well above Darnold.
His mechanics are as bad or worse then his time at USC. He still makes rookie mistakes and multiple mental errors every game. He has made no improvement, in fact he has regressed in some areas. Truth is, Darnold sucks throwing from a clean pocket and is at his best on broken plays. That's the only time he shows flashes.

the point is you have a HC who believes his own press clippings that the owner wrote about him being a "Brilliant Offensive Mind" that the true factor of practice is to install his script...

where is the QB coach preaching to Sam to work on his technique? Loggains is a window dressing title only QB Coach - OC...
the HC is more worried about the X's & O's of his game plan he stole then to pay mind to the players development...

Sam is only bad because he is not being taught footwork, reading defenses because there is no man in motion, no presnap reads to determine man or zone... Gase believes what he calls will work, then reality sets in and Sam is screwed... Can Sam make wine from berries on occasion when he is not getting drilled by multiple defenders...

 

[butterscotch]

Footwork send him to Arthur Murray......He needs help but that in itself does not does not make sure he will do well in this league. Age is also on his side........ but I am worried......like the Lone Ranger will help come in time,

 

[TonyFtLaud]

the point is you have a HC who believes his own press clippings that the owner wrote about him being a "Brilliant Offensive Mind" that the true factor of practice is to install his script...

where is the QB coach preaching to Sam to work on his technique? Loggains is a window dressing title only QB Coach - OC...
the HC is more worried about the X's & O's of his game plan he stole then to pay mind to the players development...

Sam is only bad because he is not being taught footwork, reading defenses because there is no man in motion, no presnap reads to determine man or zone... Gase believes what he calls will work, then reality sets in and Sam is screwed... Can Sam make wine from berries on occasion when he is not getting drilled by multiple defenders...

Gase is the QB coach. Loggins is an errand boy. Nothing more.
Sam is bad because hes very inexperienced and was never good. He was a terrible QB at USC. He got by on his WR talent vs the weakest Ds in college his first year. Year 2 he fell on his face. He was so bad they canceled the spring game because of his constant turnovers.. let that sink in... he was a project. Drafted on his occasional flashes.
Hes working with the same QB coach as Josh Allen every offseason. 3 so far.Allen has taken major steps foward with his mechanics, mental awareness and accuracy. Darnold worked on footwork and mechanics to an extent but let's remember last year pre season he said he worked on his throwing motion but he wouldn't change his footwork any furthur because its comfortable and works for him. He needs to get away from palmer in the offseason and put in the effort to improve those skills. Otherwise hes going to keep reverting to his bad habits. He never should have been starting year one. He needed at least a year to learn but the BS hype from 2 years earlier managed to outshine his poor performance year 2.

I hate Gase but he goes have open recievers on most pass plays. Darnold has been locking on to his first read and either doesnt see the open man or is too late getting the ball out. His ball placement sucks on most throws. He rarely hits recievers in stride. Out recievers have to stop, jump, or extend to make most catches. That leaves yards and points on the field. Like I said through the first 3 weeks, there were more than a dozen QBs sacked more than Darnold, some more than twice as many. Who are playing much better than him.
Third year hasn't learned to throw a ball away to avoid a sack and completely shrinks in the red zone.
The question now is do you pay him $25 million for an option year the upper $30 million multi year to try and Develop him during a rebuild, or do you take a much better QB in the draft and build around him.

 

[Bigmoe]

No way pay him that kind of money
Although it’s the fucking jets ,
so who knows

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

No way pay him that kind of money
Although it’s the fucking jets ,
so who knows

You definitely don't pay Darnold early. He has shown flashes, but they are just flashes. Not enough consistency. I want Darnold to become a great QB, but I don't think he has ever played for a good coach at any level. The right coach can fix Darnold, but the Jets will never get the right coach.

 

[gmf1369]

Gase is the QB coach. Loggins is an errand boy. Nothing more.
Sam is bad because hes very inexperienced and was never good. He was a terrible QB at USC. He got by on his WR talent vs the weakest Ds in college his first year. Year 2 he fell on his face. He was so bad they canceled the spring game because of his constant turnovers.. let that sink in... he was a project. Drafted on his occasional flashes.
Hes working with the same QB coach as Josh Allen every offseason. 3 so far.Allen has taken major steps foward with his mechanics, mental awareness and accuracy. Darnold worked on footwork and mechanics to an extent but let's remember last year pre season he said he worked on his throwing motion but he wouldn't change his footwork any furthur because its comfortable and works for him. He needs to get away from palmer in the offseason and put in the effort to improve those skills. Otherwise hes going to keep reverting to his bad habits. He never should have been starting year one. He needed at least a year to learn but the BS hype from 2 years earlier managed to outshine his poor performance year 2.

I hate Gase but he goes have open recievers on most pass plays. Darnold has been locking on to his first read and either doesnt see the open man or is too late getting the ball out. His ball placement sucks on most throws. He rarely hits recievers in stride. Out recievers have to stop, jump, or extend to make most catches. That leaves yards and points on the field. Like I said through the first 3 weeks, there were more than a dozen QBs sacked more than Darnold, some more than twice as many. Who are playing much better than him.
Third year hasn't learned to throw a ball away to avoid a sack and completely shrinks in the red zone.
The question now is do you pay him $25 million for an option year the upper $30 million multi year to try and Develop him during a rebuild, or do you take a much better QB in the draft and build around him.

Gase is the QB coach
Gase is the OC
Gase is the HC
Gase is the GM
Gase is the play caller
Gase is the puppet master
Darnold is the puppet
Loggains is a paper weight

Problem with Sam is no one worked with him to develop his technique outside Jordan Palmer who wasn't a real good QB himself so how will Sam get better if the person teaching him was below average at best when he tried to play...

Sam is like Mark Sanchez needs a stable rush attack to allow him to play action roll out and find the open target but Gase has his hands so far up Sam Darnold's ass that Sam is handcuffed into who he targets on offense...

On occasion when the play breaks down Sam disregards the hot read and finds the open target then we see him jarring with Gase on the sideline...

Can Sam in the right situation be a good developmental signal caller? The answer is yes anyone can but the coordinator needs to build the game plan around the talents of the quarterback and his skill players... Gase won't do that... This ownership is the problem, can Joe Douglas tread water long enough to take control from Gase and the Johnson clan? That is up for debate, but I think he can but don't know when...

Hope and pray that Trump loses that means we get Woody back he seems a bit more level headed when it comes to power tree... CJ his brother thinks he is the smart one and has gotten duped by Gase from the beginning...

 

[TonyFtLaud]

What is Darnolds strength to build around?
He sucks in the pocket.
Broken plays are where he flashes, but also where he makes some of his worst decisions. He becomes a GHOST in the red zone.
Darnold's best chance of improving is to sit the remainder of the season to learn QB basics which he lacks. Loggins isn't the guy to teach him so a real QB coach has to be hired. Then you play a game of chance with him. Don't pick up the option, have him play out year 4. If he sinks, let him walk. If he actually improves and shows he can play at least consistently, you have the option of tagging him. Chances are he sits out and we watch another QB we passed on become one of the young stud future of the league while we hope for mediocrity again.

 

[butterscotch]

What is Darnolds strength to build around?
He sucks in the pocket.
Broken plays are where he flashes, but also where he makes some of his worst decisions. He becomes a GHOST in the red zone.
Darnold's best chance of improving is to sit the remainder of the season to learn QB basics which he lacks. Loggins isn't the guy to teach him so a real QB coach has to be hired. Then you play a game of chance with him. Don't pick up the option, have him play out year 4. If he sinks, let him walk. If he actually improves and shows he can play at least consistently, you have the option of tagging him. Chances are he sits out and we watch another QB we passed on become one of the young stud future of the league while we hope for mediocrity again.

Darnold & the g word where is that li guy that said he did not like it lol. If you see one you become one lol

 

[gmf1369]

go to youtube search Sam Darnold 2019 highlights that is with Adam Gase, it show everything you just stated he can not do...

but with a proper coach to develop his skills then he can take the next step...

any QB with a half decent arm can be taught at this level...

​

 

[Bigmoe]

If we are at #1 in the draft
You have to take Trevor
I’m not giving Sam any more possible years if you get Trevor
Trade him , and what do you think you’ll get ?
That’s your answer on keeping him

 

[butterscotch]

If we are at #1 in the draft
You have to take Trevor
I’m not giving Sam any more possible years if you get Trevor
Trade him , and what do you think you’ll get ?
That’s your answer on keeping him

Big moe as bad as we are with Darnold i can't see us finishing last now if we get him injured the game changes. If we do finish with 13 or more losses then everyone has to go

 

[NewMFS62]

Footwork send him to Arthur Murray......

Pardon me, boy
Is that Sam Darnold in a tu tu?
Leather and lace,
And Sam's smiling face.

You know that they'll try
anything to keep him alive
Every step he can learn
from ballet to jive.

Nothing can be finer
than to evade a rushing 'Niner
Keep on dancing, kid
And you'll stay alive.

We saw his look, pure
Bewilderment when he faced Baltimore.
No matter what the head coach called
it was always fourth and four.

No matter how hard he's tryin'
He'll end up beneath a lineman.
OOH OOH, no wonder why
His butt is so sore.

There'll come a day
A new coach will show him the way.
That thought of our Sam in a tutu
Will be never more.

Later

 

[TonyFtLaud]

go to youtube search Sam Darnold 2019 highlights that is with Adam Gase, it show everything you just stated he can not do...

but with a proper coach to develop his skills then he can take the next step...

any QB with a half decent arm can be taught at this level...

​

LMAO.... a highlight reel? Judge a player on 6-10 plays and ignore the other 120-130 other plays... for the past decade, we are force fed the highest of draft picks, 90% dont work out, yet were fitting them for gold jackets based on highlight reels.
Look at Darnolds highlight. His footwork sucks as do his mechanics. That's why he is so inconsistent.
Again I'm LOL. Any QB with a decent arm can be taught at this level. ? Less than .1% of QBs make it at this level. Most have better than 1/2 decent arms.
The mental aspect is the toughest challenge for QBs at this level. So far in year 3, Darnold is playing at a rookie level mentally. He locks onto his first read, takes unnecessary sacks, has little to no pocket awareness and reverts back to poor mechanics and footwork.
He needs time on the bench, a lot of time. With a QB coach to groom him with the very basics. Footwork , throwing motion, situational awareness etc., if he has a chance. You can't teach a QB basic fundamentals during the season, the time just isn'tavailable. If you could or if all you need is a half decent arm, QBs wouldn't be making $40 million per year and we wouldn't be in our 6th decade looking for 1.

You see the Hoyer sack last night, the outrage , that's what we get from Sam week in, week out. Stupid costly mistakes, with excuses. Hes just not as good as he was hyped up to be and it shows on his USC highlights that you would enjoy.
That's on him. His practice partner Josh Allen has worked together wit Sam and Palmer and has made amazing strides from years 1 to 2, and 2-3.
He couldn't get within 10 yards of an open WR last year.with the exact same training as Darnold. EXACT. He is lighting up the league.

 

[gmf1369]

LMAO.... a highlight reel? Judge a player on 6-10 plays and ignore the other 120-130 other plays... for the past decade, we are force fed the highest of draft picks, 90% dont work out, yet were fitting them for gold jackets based on highlight reels.
Look at Darnolds highlight. His footwork sucks as do his mechanics. That's why he is so inconsistent.
Again I'm LOL. Any QB with a decent arm can be taught at this level. ? Less than .1% of QBs make it at this level. Most have better than 1/2 decent arms.
The mental aspect is the toughest challenge for QBs at this level. So far in year 3, Darnold is playing at a rookie level mentally. He locks onto his first read, takes unnecessary sacks, has little to no pocket awareness and reverts back to poor mechanics and footwork.
He needs time on the bench, a lot of time. With a QB coach to groom him with the very basics. Footwork , throwing motion, situational awareness etc., if he has a chance. You can't teach a QB basic fundamentals during the season, the time just isn'tavailable. If you could or if all you need is a half decent arm, QBs wouldn't be making $40 million per year and we wouldn't be in our 6th decade looking for 1.

You see the Hoyer sack last night, the outrage , that's what we get from Sam week in, week out. Stupid costly mistakes, with excuses. Hes just not as good as he was hyped up to be and it shows on his USC highlights that you would enjoy.
That's on him. His practice partner Josh Allen has worked together wit Sam and Palmer and has made amazing strides from years 1 to 2, and 2-3.
He couldn't get within 10 yards of an open WR last year.with the exact same training as Darnold. EXACT. He is lighting up the league.

if he is capable on doing it 6-10 or in this case 30 times then he is capable of being taught how to it consistently...

this kid is not a pocket QB...
this kid is not a gunslinger...
this kid is not an accurate passer...

we can agree, yes?

what he is, is an improviser...
what that is he is capable of making something when the play breaks down... knowing this any head coach could then work a game plan into this idea that quick throws or hot reads won't work because he is second guessing himself as we seen these passed few games... The reads even for us fans were like dude how the hell did you miss Jeff Smith or Chris Herndon even Braxton Berrios on those crossing routes... Is because the Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach is only teaching him the script for the game but not allowing to be comfortable on what he is seeing by the defense...

every quarterback is different, but are treated as if they are the same by certain coaches, like Gase... Gase believes his game plan, play book allows any quarterback to run his plays during a game... difference from practice no pressure to game day where live action Sam has NO recourse and is not ready to react...

Josh Allen first year sucked... Only his mobility is what got him through... Second year sucked but he started to hit on some of those deep passes... So what did the Bills do they traded for a deep threat receiver in Stefon Diggs who is making Josh Allen look like a cerebral assassin this year... Having players that improve the quarterback, gives confidence to that quarterback where he starts to develop as he is right now... With that the entire team is playing well...

Darnold doesn't have that, won't have that because we have two general managers... we have one guy playing head coach, offensive coordinator, quarterback's coach, and has equal power to the general manager in the front office... this roster will never get the proper needs to develop Sam Darnold while Adam Gase is here....

 

[gmf1369]

crossing routes albeit seem like a good game plan for Sam he doesn't step into those throws even though the receiver is wide open... Sam has to be taught to utilize these receivers as his first read, not last... Guarantee the wrong person is being called the hot read guy in these sets, usually they are double covered, like Braxton Berrios was last game but Jeff Smith was wide open over the middle... This is a coaching error, and predetermined play in Adam Gases's game day script...

practicing the script for game day is fine but if that is all Gase does then how will Sam develop if his mechanics, footwork and composure is not being corrected in practice then during game day he looks the way he looks and fans are disgusted in his overall body of work...

 

[butterscotch]

LMAO.... a highlight reel? Judge a player on 6-10 plays and ignore the other 120-130 other plays... for the past decade, we are force fed the highest of draft picks, 90% dont work out, yet were fitting them for gold jackets based on highlight reels.
Look at Darnolds highlight. His footwork sucks as do his mechanics. That's why he is so inconsistent.
Again I'm LOL. Any QB with a decent arm can be taught at this level. ? Less than .1% of QBs make it at this level. Most have better than 1/2 decent arms.
The mental aspect is the toughest challenge for QBs at this level. So far in year 3, Darnold is playing at a rookie level mentally. He locks onto his first read, takes unnecessary sacks, has little to no pocket awareness and reverts back to poor mechanics and footwork.
He needs time on the bench, a lot of time. With a QB coach to groom him with the very basics. Footwork , throwing motion, situational awareness etc., if he has a chance. You can't teach a QB basic fundamentals during the season, the time just isn'tavailable. If you could or if all you need is a half decent arm, QBs wouldn't be making $40 million per year and we wouldn't be in our 6th decade looking for 1.

You see the Hoyer sack last night, the outrage , that's what we get from Sam week in, week out. Stupid costly mistakes, with excuses. Hes just not as good as he was hyped up to be and it shows on his USC highlights that you would enjoy.
That's on him. His practice partner Josh Allen has worked together wit Sam and Palmer and has made amazing strides from years 1 to 2, and 2-3.
He couldn't get within 10 yards of an open WR last year.with the exact same training as Darnold. EXACT. He is lighting up the league.

I agree the good news is he is only 23 we may have more of this for 15 more years

 

[NewMFS62]

I agree the good news is he is only 23

To use a Casey Stengel line, "He's only 23. In ten years he has a chance to be 33."
Later