We are losers because our talent evaluation sucks....period

[Mugatu]

This team hasn't had a decent talent evaluator since Mangini.

There is rarely (if ever) a late round pick that turns into a stud, or even a middle round guy. Even our 2nd rounders have been complete duds the past 5-6 years.

Have we hit on some talented 1st rounders? Yep. However there have been as many duds as well Gholston, Milliner, Coples, Wilson come to mind...

Who have we hit a home run on in the last 6 rounds of the draft? Nooooobody.

Our best draft picks after Rd 1 the past 4 drafts are Winters and Enunwa. Neither is a stud, but both are starting quality. That's it. 75% of the picks are already gone or fringe roster holders.

It seems like so many other teams find gems in the late rounds. We get nothing.

It's through force of will and FA that we aren't the Browns.


My rant for the year.

 

[jets82]

This team hasn't had a decent talent evaluator since Mangini.

There is rarely (if ever) a late round pick that turns into a stud, or even a middle round guy. Even our 2nd rounders have been complete duds the past 5-6 years.

Have we hit on some talented 1st rounders? Yep. However there have been as many duds as well Gholston, Milliner, Coples, Wilson come to mind...

Who have we hit a home run on in the last 6 rounds of the draft? Nooooobody.

Our best draft picks after Rd 1 the past 4 drafts are Winters and Enunwa. Neither is a stud, but both are starting quality. That's it. 75% of the picks are already gone or fringe roster holders.

It seems like so many other teams find gems in the late rounds. We get nothing.

It's through force of will and FA that we aren't the Browns.


My rant for the year.

I feel you and you hit this on the nail my friend. Look at teams that have hit franchise players after the first round over the past few years that will be future HOFers. Dallas with Dak, Seattle with R. Wilson, Pittsburgh with L. Bell and A. Brown and Arizona with Johnson (their starting RB) to name a few. Even teams that have hit on 1st round HOF future players like Dallas with Elliot, Carolina with Kueckly or Atlanta with J. Jones and Houston with J.J Watt to name a few. The Jets haven't struck platinum like this since Revis and maybe gold like Richardson or Wilkerson or most recently Williams. Definitely no one on offense since Mangold or Dbrick and their not skilled players. So until our management and CS gets this right, you might as well call us the Browns.

 

[mykcuz]

I feel like we were bottom 60% in drafting. A star here and there, but mostly backups. Idzik clearly hit rock bottom with potentially the 2 worst drafts in history. He had around 20 picks of which I think about 2 or 3 players are still in the nfl. Richardson, enunwa, winters? Idzik was less successful at drafting then the dart board method.
I feel like mac has greatly improved our depth, it wasn't hard to improve from idzik. I don't mean to anoint mac anything, but he's clearly devoted to getting younger and faster without also being a laughing stock. It's easy to create a losing culture when you rebuild, then the guys we are grooming will be comfortable in losing when it's time to shine.
I think it's a tough balance,and Mac isn't doing a bad job, not to mention we also are not tied down to any bad contacts going forward.

That being said, I think the players in the last 2 drafts will develop into impact players, and potentially lasting starters. They will also form the base of our team as we continue to draft into the future.
Looking at current projected top 5 picks, there's no QB's and a lot of d linemen. I'd be willing to trade back and acquire a top five pick next year in the hopes of being capable of drafting a legitimate first round qb next year.

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[TebowCan'tThrow]

I feel you and you hit this on the nail my friend. Look at teams that have hit franchise players after the first round over the past few years that will be future HOFers. Dallas with Dak, Seattle with R. Wilson, Pittsburgh with L. Bell and A. Brown and Arizona with Johnson (their starting RB) to name a few. Even teams that have hit on 1st round HOF future players like Dallas with Elliot, Carolina with Kueckly or Atlanta with J. Jones and Houston with J.J Watt to name a few. The Jets haven't struck platinum like this since Revis and maybe gold like Richardson or Wilkerson or most recently Williams. Definitely no one on offense since Mangold or Dbrick and their not skilled players. So until our management and CS gets this right, you might as well call us the Browns.

I'm from Dallas and could have supported a winner with 5 rings and multiple top QB's and HOF's. And now another dynasty might be forming. I chose the Jets because my mom loved the Cowboys when they moved to Dallas from Utica, NY 50 years ago. I liked the opposite of what my mom liked so I picked a team from NY. My mom had Cowboys season tickets for 20+ years and went to two SB's. I should have known momma knows best. I have coached Charles Haley's, Emmitt's and Tony Dorsett's daughters over the years for soccer. I love Dak as a QB and what seems to be a great kid. As a young kid, I didn't know what I was doing. Maybe its just time to support the players individually and screw the organization.

 

[gastineau]

Current Jets GM who was a scout, I really thought he would do very good for Drafting Defense since Texans he was a big part of in drafting their team. But I'm very sick with his Drafting for Jets other than Williams who was best pick on the board & best Player on Defensive line right now. Mikey Drafting a too small LB based on speed was stupid. Reason I say that is that 1st round pick being fast will have to bulk up to play LB in the NFL & this means hisa speed with be slowed. He cant play LB at current light weight because he will be like a fly to O Linemen. Rest of GM's picks also are not good. Hackenburg was a terrible choice at 2nd round. That pick made no sense like the 1st pick. Hackenburg is a HUGE project of hit or miss. His foot work is horrible not stepping towards WR's-TE's when passing hence his over the head screen passes into the crowds. That also affects passes & why he cant pass accurately down field & off by a couple yards with wide open WR's running 2 to 3 yds to catch his poorly thrown passes. Just those 2 picks in 1st & 2nd round was the worst I've seen since Idzik dart board Drafts. But Mikeys reasoning for Drafting both was crazy ,dumb. Jets hasnt been able to Draft a QB since Namath & always has to rely on some other team to draft a QB & Jets ending up trading & over paying to get the old QB being unable to draft our own. This must stop & Draft our own QB & be right! 1965 & cant draft a franchise QB? Really? Everyone of Jets fans could throw darts like Jets GM & get a franchise QB in 60 years better than JETS GM's! Thats unbelievable 60 years & then Mikey Mac Drafts & wastes a high draft pick on a QB figured to go in the 6th or 7th round because of issues and being a HUGE project that might not work. JETS GM & what I expect from him is to use COMMON SENSE & not be fooled by other teams misleading talk trying to get Jets to waste their high picks taking garbage & leaving good players on the board so their player will still be on the board for them. Misleading by other teams caused us to draft Geno in 2nd round & teams waiting to see who the idiot team was that bites & sure enough Jets did. Ever think why such a claimed 1st round super star franchise QB was passed on by 32 teams into 2nd round? Because Geno wasnt good & they knew it. Same with Hackenburg as draft got closer the teams looking for QB's started the propaganda about how good Hackenburg was as draft time got close, even though months before & watching his pro day teams said 6th or 7th round. Again Jets GM bit again like Geno story. Jets are the laughing stock of NFL teams in falling for misleading info on QB's because Jets fall for it every time Drafting some awful QB over & over & they laughing while the other teams QB they really wanted falls to them because Jets takes the propoganda hyped up QB every time. I expect Jets to take a QB in 1st round next year & I also expect GM to get fooled again by other teams feeding Jets BS about how good some terrible QB is. Woody, if Jets GM drafts another bad Draft, FIRE him on the spot! Jets cant go another 3 years drafting BUSTS. Idzik & now Mikey Mac have destroyed JETS future Drafting garbage with a Dart Board & it needs to stop NOW!

 

[SackExchange]

Do Jets fans ever consider it might be a bit premature to judge this current regime's drafts less than two years into their tenure?

QBs can never develop for this franchise because fans expect them to be great right away. Coaches can't develop into legit winners because they are expected to win day one, and even that often isn't enough. GMs have about five minutes with this fan base to build a foundation.

It just seems like the Jets' biggest problems in the most important positions in the organization are all derailed by fans who never let consistency and continuity develop.

 

[mykcuz]

Do Jets fans ever consider it might be a bit premature to judge this current regime's drafts less than two years into their tenure?

QBs can never develop for this franchise because fans expect them to be great right away. Coaches can't develop into legit winners because they are expected to win day one, and even that often isn't enough. GMs have about five minutes with this fan base to build a foundation.

It just seems like the Jets' biggest problems in the most important positions in the organization are all derailed by fans who never let consistency and continuity develop.

Absolutely right. I hate the hack pick, but I won't know for sure until 2020. Jets fans have zero patience. Look at the cry babies asking for petty in week 3. The kid is developing,leave him alone. It's like kids whining for food when you're still cooking,you want raw chicken,fine here you go.

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[mykcuz]

Current Jets GM who was a scout, I really thought he would do very good for Drafting Defense since Texans he was a big part of in drafting their team. But I'm very sick with his Drafting for Jets other than Williams who was best pick on the board & best Player on Defensive line right now. Mikey Drafting a too small LB based on speed was stupid. Reason I say that is that 1st round pick being fast will have to bulk up to play LB in the NFL & this means hisa speed with be slowed. He cant play LB at current light weight because he will be like a fly to O Linemen. Rest of GM's picks also are not good. Hackenburg was a terrible choice at 2nd round. That pick made no sense like the 1st pick. Hackenburg is a HUGE project of hit or miss. His foot work is horrible not stepping towards WR's-TE's when passing hence his over the head screen passes into the crowds. That also affects passes & why he cant pass accurately down field & off by a couple yards with wide open WR's running 2 to 3 yds to catch his poorly thrown passes. Just those 2 picks in 1st & 2nd round was the worst I've seen since Idzik dart board Drafts. But Mikeys reasoning for Drafting both was crazy ,dumb. Jets hasnt been able to Draft a QB since Namath & always has to rely on some other team to draft a QB & Jets ending up trading & over paying to get the old QB being unable to draft our own. This must stop & Draft our own QB & be right! 1965 & cant draft a franchise QB? Really? Everyone of Jets fans could throw darts like Jets GM & get a franchise QB in 60 years better than JETS GM's! Thats unbelievable 60 years & then Mikey Mac Drafts & wastes a high draft pick on a QB figured to go in the 6th or 7th round because of issues and being a HUGE project that might not work. JETS GM & what I expect from him is to use COMMON SENSE & not be fooled by other teams misleading talk trying to get Jets to waste their high picks taking garbage & leaving good players on the board so their player will still be on the board for them. Misleading by other teams caused us to draft Geno in 2nd round & teams waiting to see who the idiot team was that bites & sure enough Jets did. Ever think why such a claimed 1st round super star franchise QB was passed on by 32 teams into 2nd round? Because Geno wasnt good & they knew it. Same with Hackenburg as draft got closer the teams looking for QB's started the propaganda about how good Hackenburg was as draft time got close, even though months before & watching his pro day teams said 6th or 7th round. Again Jets GM bit again like Geno story. Jets are the laughing stock of NFL teams in falling for misleading info on QB's because Jets fall for it every time Drafting some awful QB over & over & they laughing while the other teams QB they really wanted falls to them because Jets takes the propoganda hyped up QB every time. I expect Jets to take a QB in 1st round next year & I also expect GM to get fooled again by other teams feeding Jets BS about how good some terrible QB is. Woody, if Jets GM drafts another bad Draft, FIRE him on the spot! Jets cant go another 3 years drafting BUSTS. Idzik & now Mikey Mac have destroyed JETS future Drafting garbage with a Dart Board & it needs to stop NOW!

I hate the hack pick, but I could be wrong. Otherwise I think our moves have been decent. I think Lee was a second rounder,meaning we missed out on a first round starter this year. I do,however,believe Lee will be great for us. He's been a hawk dicing through gaps in the line, and speed into coverage and made a great sideline play defending awr. He will be a long time starter here, and once better players are around him, he will be a difference maker.

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[JohnnyBaseball1]

Agree 100 percent that talent evaluation is the biggest problem, and that goes beyond players and into front office talent, too.

I don't think that fans have been wrong, overall, that the Jets haven't had the right players or coaches in place for a very long time. I can't think of anyone who we ran out of town who I would bring back, except Mangini, but I always liked him. And I know plenty of people would not bring him back, either.

 

[JohnnyBaseball1]

Absolutely right. I hate the hack pick, but I won't know for sure until 2020. Jets fans have zero patience. Look at the cry babies asking for petty in week 3. The kid is developing,leave him alone. It's like kids whining for food when you're still cooking,you want raw chicken,fine here you go.

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There's an underlying assumption here that the completed food, if we are patient, will be worth the wait, and that's what never happens. If someone was cooking vegetables for dinner that I didn't really like much, and they were going to cook them into a different form that also was bad, I'd say, "just give me the vegetables now" or "lets eat something else."

 

[mykcuz]

There's an underlying assumption here that the completed food, if we are patient, will be worth the wait, and that's what never happens. If someone was cooking vegetables for dinner that I didn't really like much, and they were going to cook them into a different form that also was bad, I'd say, "just give me the vegetables now" or "lets eat something else."

No I think chicken is s better analogy. Vegetables don't need to be cooked, they are just fine raw.
You want to eat raw chicken?
You want to piss me off while I'm cooking until I finally just say ok here you go before the meal is ready to eat?

You nor I,have any base to judge how good this regime is at developing a qb. They feel petty made great progress from year 1 to 2. He was a shotgun,1 read,spread qb. He held his own, showed some tools,and promise, all while behind a bs line against a good pressure defense. I look forward to watching him grow up.

Hack was always a redshirt.

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[JohnnyBaseball1]

No I think chicken is s better analogy. Vegetables don't need to be cooked, they are just fine raw.
You want to eat raw chicken?
You want to piss me off while I'm cooking until I finally just say ok here you go before the meal is ready to eat?

You nor I,have any base to judge how good this regime is at developing a qb. They feel petty made great progress from year 1 to 2. He was a shotgun,1 read,spread qb. He held his own, showed some tools,and promise, all while behind a bs line against a good pressure defense. I look forward to watching him grow up.

Hack was always a redshirt.

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I mean, I dunno, IMO, Petty looked absolutely terrible.

Uncooked chicken can make you very sick, well cooked chicken can be very delicious and satisfying. There's a huge gap between those outcomes. I just tried to come up with an example of something that isn't that good now, and won't be that good after it is cooked, either. In that case, I don't want to wait around until it's cooked, I'll just take the stupid raw vegetables. I actually want to eat filet mignon.

 

[mykcuz]

I mean, I dunno, IMO, Petty looked absolutely terrible.

Uncooked chicken can make you very sick, well cooked chicken can be very delicious and satisfying. There's a huge gap between those outcomes. I just tried to come up with an example of something that isn't that good now, and won't be that good after it is cooked, either. In that case, I don't want to wait around until it's cooked, I'll just take the stupid raw vegetables. I actually want to eat filet mignon.

We all have opinions, mine is that petty looked promising. If you expected him to throw 5tds, you were unrealistic. He made reads,handled the offense, scored, and didn't do anything embarrassing. When you remember he wasn't ready to start and is still being developed, not bad.
We saw that he has learned a pro offense, we saw his arm, he handled himself well. If he keeps learning he'll be ready to start next year.

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[lounap23]

No I think chicken is s better analogy. Vegetables don't need to be cooked, they are just fine raw.
You want to eat raw chicken?
You want to piss me off while I'm cooking until I finally just say ok here you go before the meal is ready to eat?

You nor I,have any base to judge how good this regime is at developing a qb. They feel petty made great progress from year 1 to 2. He was a shotgun,1 read,spread qb. He held his own, showed some tools,and promise, all while behind a bs line against a good pressure defense. I look forward to watching him grow up.

Hack was always a redshirt.

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Not only was it a BS OL, and a great front 4 of the Rams, he also was trying to overcome a terrible gameplan.... I want to see the kid play unleashed... Then and only then can anyone start to judge him... And lets see how he progresses (or Not) from 1 game to the next.....

I remember Browning Nagles first start... based on 1 game I thought we found out QB for the next 12-15 years.... Yea that turned out to be what 13-14 starts over 4 years with 12-13 coming in year 2 of his career..

and also remember after 1 game Dak Prescott was 0-1 with a comp% of 55 and ppl were like well he wasn't awful and if he plays like this hopefully the Cowboys will be 4-4 when Romo gets back... Let time and games tell us what we need to know. 1-2 games wont be enough especially game 1 in which Petty was handcuffed and playing at a disadvantage thanks to the play calling... But lets see where we are at in game 5, 6 and 7..... If the kid plays the rest of the season.

 

[mykcuz]

Not only was it a BS OL, and a great front 4 of the Rams, he also was trying to overcome a terrible gameplan.... I want to see the kid play unleashed... Then and only then can anyone start to judge him... And lets see how he progresses (or Not) from 1 game to the next.....

I remember Browning Nagles first start... based on 1 game I thought we found out QB for the next 12-15 years.... Yea that turned out to be what 13-14 starts over 4 years with 12-13 coming in year 2 of his career..

and also remember after 1 game Dak Prescott was 0-1 with a comp% of 55 and ppl were like well he wasn't awful and if he plays like this hopefully the Cowboys will be 4-4 when Romo gets back... Let time and games tell us what we need to know. 1-2 games wont be enough especially game 1 in which Petty was handcuffed and playing at a disadvantage thanks to the play calling... But lets see where we are at in game 5, 6 and 7..... If the kid plays the rest of the season.

Agree

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[JohnnyBaseball1]

We all have opinions, mine is that petty looked promising. If you expected him to throw 5tds, you were unrealistic. He made reads,handled the offense, scored, and didn't do anything embarrassing. When you remember he wasn't ready to start and is still being developed, not bad.
We saw that he has learned a pro offense, we saw his arm, he handled himself well. If he keeps learning he'll be ready to start next year.

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I'm not going to pretend to know more than NFL coaches, but I just didn't see it. I saw him make some really bad throws, including one that just spiked straight into the ground even though no one was near him, and he just didn't look good to me. So I don't feel hopeful for this team at all if he's going to be the starter next year. Maybe thats a key difference in attitude here.

I feel like we are always grasping at straws because its been so long since we've had a real QB. I feel like what Petty did on Sunday was not enough for me to think he has what it takes to be in the NFL, much less be the starter next year, and that sense is reinforced when I watch other teams who have actual good players. Not to say that we should cut him, or I'm done watching him, or that my evaluation couldn't change. It can change, easily, but I have to see something that makes it change. I can't just hold out hope for the future based on nothing in particular. I've seen too many players come into the NFL and fail with a much better pedigree and better physical skills.

But again, what do I know? I'm constantly wrong about these things, so there is that.

 

[JohnnyBaseball1]

Here's another thing - I know gaining 10 yards in an NFL game is REALLY hard. You have to have an NFL quality team of offensive players to be able to do that.

But 10 yards is actually a very short distance. Anyone who throws a ball for a living should be able to nail <10 yard throws pretty consistently. Maybe we should game plan around that? It's what the Patriots seem to do.

 

[mykcuz]

I'm not going to pretend to know more than NFL coaches, but I just didn't see it. I saw him make some really bad throws, including one that just spiked straight into the ground even though no one was near him, and he just didn't look good to me. So I don't feel hopeful for this team at all if he's going to be the starter next year. Maybe thats a key difference in attitude here.

I feel like we are always grasping at straws because its been so long since we've had a real QB. I feel like what Petty did on Sunday was not enough for me to think he has what it takes to be in the NFL, much less be the starter next year, and that sense is reinforced when I watch other teams who have actual good players. Not to say that we should cut him, or I'm done watching him, or that my evaluation couldn't change. It can change, easily, but I have to see something that makes it change. I can't just hold out hope for the future based on nothing in particular. I've seen too many players come into the NFL and fail with a much better pedigree and better physical skills.

But again, what do I know? I'm constantly wrong about these things, so there is that.

Let's be clear,I'm not anointing him anything. I think he's a work in progress just as the coach and gm told us. But what I saw was neither damming nor vindication. I saw a work in progress. The fact that he had progressed is positive and confirms the gms story.

Remember he missed 5 crucial weeks of practice. So next year will mark 1.5 years of development.

He can still go either way, did he have mistakes of course,but so what. He had a conservative game plan to compensate for a couple things:
-Qb not ready to start
-O line sucks
-Opponents had excellent pass rush
-Stay with the run to compensate
-Had zero time to sit in pocket and let a play develop

Let's allow him to develop, we need patience.

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[jets82]

Absolutely right. I hate the hack pick, but I won't know for sure until 2020. Jets fans have zero patience. Look at the cry babies asking for petty in week 3. The kid is developing,leave him alone. It's like kids whining for food when you're still cooking,you want raw chicken,fine here you go.

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Cry babies huh, that's pretty funny! Love you analogy but here's what I think you, other fans may be missing and so is the Jets CS, scouting team and management. There are players that need to develop (most players in fact) and we all know that. There are coaches that need to also but the problem is the Jets just can't seem to ever hit on those players or coaches who don't need that time to develop. Let's just stick to the players for now, the players we draft pretty much always seem to flame out or are average at best. How is any franchise suppose to win when they continuously draft this way?

Yeah, we struck platinum with Revis, Mangold and Dbrick but name another player since then or before then in the 90's that they struck platinum on? Pennington would have been that but injuries wrecked it for him. All the other players IMHO were average to very good players but not powerhouses. We just don't seem to draft a Ray Lewis (1st rounder) or Drew Breez and Big Ben (2nd rounder), Tony Romo (undrafted) or Tom Brady (6th rounder) for example. Get the point??? Teams like the Patriots seem to strike gold to platinum on most of their draft picks, no matter what round they draft them in. Same with teams like the Steelers, Dallas, Green Bay and Seahawks.

This all comes from the scouting teams, CS and management doing exceptional jobs and striking platinum to at least gold on most of their picks. Where as teams like us and the Browns draft players that within 3-4 years, they are not even on the team anymore because they stink. Will that happen with the CS and their draft picks, I don't know of course but Petty and Hack need time to develop and learn. Hopefully it works out and one of them is our guy. While teams like the Cowboys draft Dak (4th round), Colts draft Luck (1st round) and the Seahawks draft R. Wilson (3rd round) and they're playing game 1 in their rookie year (and doing it well).

Maybe it's just the Jets fate I guess but I have a hard time believing that. If other teams can draft these gems whether they are 1st or 6th rounders or sign these undrafted gems, then why can't we do it? I don't think it's just blind luck or all about the scheme of the team helping develop these players. I think it's because these other teams always hire MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER scouting staff, CS and GMs and they seem to be able to find players that have supreme talent. All the schemes or oline or whatever else, helps the players even more ofcourse. That's strictly on Woody and his management team I guess hiring the wrong people.

Note: All I'm saying is, it would be nice for the Jets to hire people that can draft us year one gems to HOFers in whatever round that may be. Or sign us some undrafted gems. Obviously its not impossible to do because quite a few other teams seem to be able to do it. Were just not one of them!!!

 

[jets82]

I'm not going to pretend to know more than NFL coaches, but I just didn't see it. I saw him make some really bad throws, including one that just spiked straight into the ground even though no one was near him, and he just didn't look good to me. So I don't feel hopeful for this team at all if he's going to be the starter next year. Maybe thats a key difference in attitude here.

I feel like we are always grasping at straws because its been so long since we've had a real QB. I feel like what Petty did on Sunday was not enough for me to think he has what it takes to be in the NFL, much less be the starter next year, and that sense is reinforced when I watch other teams who have actual good players. Not to say that we should cut him, or I'm done watching him, or that my evaluation couldn't change. It can change, easily, but I have to see something that makes it change. I can't just hold out hope for the future based on nothing in particular. I've seen too many players come into the NFL and fail with a much better pedigree and better physical skills.

But again, what do I know? I'm constantly wrong about these things, so there is that.

I agree, I wasn't impressed either but it was his first game. Maybe it was the scheme and Gailey being to damn scared to let him show his talent but Petty did miss some throws he should have hit. I've said it before and will say it again, I don't think our future QB is even on this roster but hopefully Petty or Hack prove me wrong.