what i bolded is why i "fathom" westhoff is POed with woody johnson & the guy that got hired for the job he was never considered for.. & he has a microphone an a audience to vent to about it.. my opinion anyway..
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LGM
Guest
Apparently, given SNYs embarrassingly low ratings for anything but live baseball, only about five people care what this bitter, angry old career Miami Dolphin former ST coordinator says about the Jets.
And 20 percent of them live in Maine, root for their Bills and hate the Jets as much as Westhoff does
And 20 percent of them live in Maine, root for their Bills and hate the Jets as much as Westhoff does
The article doesn't say Westy knew about the guy in Atlanta -- that was speculation on the author's part. Having said that, I have no problem admitting I have no clue what was going through Westhoff's mind. All I know is that seems to be a lot of venom towards a situation that doesn't seem to warrant it.
Perhaps you could explain to me what's so "cowardice" about firing a guy who didn't have a good year? Why you feel the "brave" thing to do would have been to keep a coach you didn't want in the first place, and not at least try to upgrade the position? That's sounds a lot like Rex's "loyal to the grave" crap that blew up in our face more than once . . .
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Mainejet
Guest
There's actually two reasons why it is lame at best:
1) He gave Bobby April nothing and what happened? Of course he had a bad year, I mean what do you want? As has already been pointed out, if you don't put anything in, you get NOTHING out. Bobby April was hamstrung by not only Todd Bowles but likely Mike MacCagnan as well.
2) If Bobby April was his 2nd choice and apparently he plans on hiring HIS guy now in Keith Armstrong, why did he hire April in the first place if he didn't plan on giving him a legitimate shot at making something of the special teams? Seems rather disingenuous to me. Hire a guy as a 1 year rental.
The big difference here is, and once again it does not surprise me at all, on this Jets board you can never find anyone that would dare question anything their beloved Jets have done, let alone say anything. So they say Westhoff, despite his very distinguished career and revered status, is a lot of venom??
I am not just talking to you when I say, TRUST ME the NYJ make plenty of mistakes just like the rest of the league as evidenced by their damn near 50 year SB drought.
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LGM
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Sounds like you might be disparaging other Jet fans, MT but I know you never do that so I must be wrong[emoji12]
Your argument holds some water, but there were also other factors at work. When it comes to personnel, one guy drafted to return ended up getting injured, Devin Smith. The lights out kicker, Nick Folk, also missed much of the season. Most teams, like the Jets, utilize their depth at positions like DB, LB, WR, etc., on specials, aside from the specialists. The Jets were no different. What were they supposed to do? Use mid-round picks specifically on guys who were good on the kickoff or punt units, but weren't the best players at their normal offensive or defensive position? Then people would complain about the team not picking the best depth guys at their position.
Westhoff has a great track record as a special teams coach. In this case, though, many of us saw how bad the specials were, so it's not outlandish that the team would replace the special teams coach. Westhoff is entitled to his position, but if Bowles hadn't replaced April, he would have been bashed by others for not holding his assistants accountable for their performance. And I have little doubt you would have bashed Bowles for that, as well.
You have done well to set yourself up to bash Bowles no matter what he does. He gets rid of a special teams coach whose units performed poorly, and you bash him for it. Had he kept April, you would have had ample opportunity to bash him for keeping April.
Very well played. :global (27):
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flgreen
Guest
That's nonsense. Westhoff was with the dolphins for 14 years and with the Jets 12. Much of which he was battling cancer. Westhoff and Wannstedt hated one another. Mostly because Westhoff saw Wannstedt as a phony and a crappy HC, and didn't have any problem telling him so. To prove that Westhoff was right Wannstedt fired one of the best, and respected ST's coaches, arguably ever.
Westhoff came to the Jets and continued as perhaps the top ST's coach in the league. One of the reason he retired was because the NFL changed the rules which minimized the impact of ST's.
I for one would have loved to see Westhoff get a shot as the Jets HC. Don't know how it would have gone, but it would have been interesting and entertaining.
BTW with the last sentence of your post you are baiting MJ, in a disagreement which you are not really involved in. Not cool
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Mainejet
Guest
FLgreen, you are finding yourself on the wrong side of the jets speech police. You shouldn't go there. You will incur the wrath of all of these posters who are always right and you are always wrong.
Besides, fact and logic has no place in this argument.
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Mainejet
Guest
He couldn't bait me even if he tried. I've already drawn the conclusion that he's laughable at best. But all sold out fans are easy to see through.
Oh my God....
Speech police? I don't think anyone's telling you to shut up. There's no police state here. Just YOU making a mountain out of a molehill everytime someone has the audacity to challenge you. You claim to have the facts, while everyone else's opinions are founded in "fairy tales".
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LGM
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In order to avoid seeing any more personal attacks and namecalling, I am putting this jackass on ignore
Thanks Elias and the rest of the mods for keeping this forum mostly troll free and the best forum for NY Jet fans to talk about the team they love
Keep it growing
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
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Pot calling the kettle black.
Maybe April was not bad but you want to get better a step at a time. Time to step up again. keep heading up hill
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Mainejet
Guest
Mountain out of a mole hill my ass. Westhoff spoke his mind and I couldnt agree more with everything he said. And yes just about everyone on this site gets their panties in a bunch anytime I critize the Jets. Thats called speech police and you're probably the police chief.
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LGM
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Ban
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LGM
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Compared with one or two already here, Cimini would be a bastion of football knowledge and Jet positivity[emoji1]
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
soooo...getting back to the topic at hand...
when a unit ranks 31 out of 32, it means they are pretty bad. so replacing the coach of said 31st ranked unit doesn't sound like some knee-jerk reaction.
i respect westhoff's accomplishments on the field as a coach, but he sounds like he's carrying out some vendetta against the club with these comments. april's unit was terrible, and while he wasn't solely responsible, i see no reason why bowles shouldn't make a change.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-je...-were-the-jets-on-special-teams-well-tell-you
How bad were the Jets on special teams? We'll tell you
You don't need me or anybody else to tell you the New York Jets struggled on special teams in 2015. Obviously, coach Todd Bowles thought so, firing coordinator Bobby April at the end of the season.
This might be considered piling on, but ...
NFL reporter Rick Gosselin has published his annual special-teams rankings for the Dallas Morning News and the Jets are No. 31, ahead of only the San Diego Chargers. Gosselin rates every team in 22 categories, assigning points -- one for the best, 32 for the worst. A lot of football people, including New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, reference the DMN rankings when discussing special teams.
In the past three years, the Jets have gone from ninth to 20th and 31st, which explains why they'll have their fifth special-teams coach in five years when Bowles hires April's replacement.
The DMN's ranking is consistent with ESPN's rating system, which puts the Jets at No. 30 in StEPA (total expected points added by special teams).
Statistically, the Jets finished 32nd in net punting, 23rd in kickoff return average, 30th in opposing punt-return average and 23rd in field-goal percentage. They also allowed a league-high 24 points on special teams -- two punt returns, a blocked punt and a fumble recovery
when a unit ranks 31 out of 32, it means they are pretty bad. so replacing the coach of said 31st ranked unit doesn't sound like some knee-jerk reaction.
i respect westhoff's accomplishments on the field as a coach, but he sounds like he's carrying out some vendetta against the club with these comments. april's unit was terrible, and while he wasn't solely responsible, i see no reason why bowles shouldn't make a change.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-je...-were-the-jets-on-special-teams-well-tell-you
How bad were the Jets on special teams? We'll tell you
You don't need me or anybody else to tell you the New York Jets struggled on special teams in 2015. Obviously, coach Todd Bowles thought so, firing coordinator Bobby April at the end of the season.
This might be considered piling on, but ...
NFL reporter Rick Gosselin has published his annual special-teams rankings for the Dallas Morning News and the Jets are No. 31, ahead of only the San Diego Chargers. Gosselin rates every team in 22 categories, assigning points -- one for the best, 32 for the worst. A lot of football people, including New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, reference the DMN rankings when discussing special teams.
In the past three years, the Jets have gone from ninth to 20th and 31st, which explains why they'll have their fifth special-teams coach in five years when Bowles hires April's replacement.
The DMN's ranking is consistent with ESPN's rating system, which puts the Jets at No. 30 in StEPA (total expected points added by special teams).
Statistically, the Jets finished 32nd in net punting, 23rd in kickoff return average, 30th in opposing punt-return average and 23rd in field-goal percentage. They also allowed a league-high 24 points on special teams -- two punt returns, a blocked punt and a fumble recovery
Thanks Hobson.
Agreed. This is a message to the rest of the team that Bowles demands perfection or at least close to it. I am not losing any sleep over April being gone. His unit stunk