2014 rookie class

[hobson54]

Perfect. Now lets watch his career unfold and we'll be able to judge Nick the GM and see how long after 2015 Nick would remain the GM, or if Winston becomes a star, does Nick go down as Bill Polian 2.0.

This should be fun.

...and I'll answer the questions as well, he's a player that loves himself more than football, so I wouldn't draft him.

wait, arent' you the guy who was extolling geno smith's virtue's before last season, telling everyone how they were idiots for giving up on him and saying he would show everyone how good he was.

i guess we now know that the 2014 pre-season version of jetman55 would be fired as a GM. you know, the same one who LOVED the pryor, amaro and mcdougle picks before he hated them. yeah, that GM 55 would have been fired

 

[flgreen]

wait, arent' you the guy who was extolling geno smith's virtue's before last season, telling everyone how they were idiots for giving up on him and saying he would show everyone right.

i guess we now know that the 2014 pre-season version of jetman55 would be fired as a GM. you know, the same one who LOVED the pryor, amaro and mcdougle picks before he hated them. yeah, tha GM 55 would have been fired

LOL. That's the great part of the internet. We can all be GM's, and pay no consequences. Some even totally flip flop, and insist they were right all along with great outrage.

Real GM's can't do that. The media is stuck to their butts like bull dogs.

 

[Superman55]

wait, arent' you the guy who was extolling geno smith's virtue's before last season, telling everyone how they were idiots for giving up on him and saying he would show everyone right.

i guess we now know that the 2014 pre-season version of jetman55 would be fired as a GM. you know, the same one who LOVED the pryor, amaro and mcdougle picks before he hated them. yeah, tha GM 55 would have been fired

But GM Jetman55 wouldnt have made those picks. So how can you hold me accountable for picks I wouldn't have made? I said I would have taken Dennard, Amaro, and Moncreif...

As for Geno, I would have taken him #39 for sure, and I still believe you cant judge a QB based on a rookie year performance...I'd still call someone an idiot who thinks they know what the QB will become after 16 games played as a rookie QB.

 

[hobson54]

not sure why we are talking about winston in a thread about 2014 rookie WRs, but my answer to whether i take him (and for the record, i expect him to be drafted before we pick) is basically the same as my answer on mariota. it comes down to scouting. if you and your scouts think he has what it takes to be a franchise QB, and that includes off-field, then yes, you take him.

personally, without having access to him and being able to interview him and put him through the psychological tests that the teams will be able to do, i would be very leary of drafting him. maybe he is just an immature kid who will grow up and "get it", but i would be quite skeptical of taking him and plunking him down in the NY media fishbowl, where his every move on and off the field will be magnified, and where from the day he is drafted, he will be looked upon as the savior of the franchise. that's a lot to ask of any kid....and even more worrisome for someone with winston's noted rap sheet and maturity questions.

 

[hobson54]

But GM Jetman55 wouldnt have made those picks. So how can you hold me accountable for picks I wouldn't have made? I said I would have taken Dennard, Amaro, and Moncreif...

As for Geno, I would have taken him #39 for sure, and I still believe you cant judge a QB based on a rookie year performance...I'd still call someone an idiot who thinks they know what the QB will become after 16 games played as a rookie QB.

fair enough. those are guys you said you would have taken.

 

[Superman55]

not sure why we are talking about winston in a thread about 2014 rookie WRs, but my answer to whether i take him (and for the record, i expect him to be drafted before we pick) is basically the same as my answer on mariota. it comes down to scouting. if you and your scouts think he has what it takes to be a franchise QB, and that includes off-field, then yes, you take him.

personally, without having access to him and being able to interview him and put him through the psychological tests that the teams will be able to do, i would be very leary of drafting him. maybe he is just an immature kid who will grow up and "get it", but i would be quite skeptical of taking him and plunking him down in the NY media fishbowl, where his every move on and off the field will be magnified, and where from the day he is drafted, he will be looked upon as the savior of the franchise. that's a lot to ask of any kid....and even more worrisome for someone with winston's noted rap sheet and maturity questions.

...so you'd draft him at #6 ?

 

[hobson54]

...so you'd draft him at #6 ?

it's hard to say because i cannot properly evaluate him, the person. he especially will need to be vetted for the off-field stuff, with personal interviews and psychology tests.

but gun to my head, yeah, i probably would roll the dice on him in this draft, because i don't think any other options at 6 will be that great. i assume cooper will be gone (and personally, i never loved using that high of a pick on WRs - i hated taking keyshawn #1 ), there are no franchise LTs in the draft (and i don't like using that high of a pick on a RT or G), and the strength of the draft is the strength of our team (d-line), so taking any of those lineman is a bit of a waste given the talent and depth we have at the position.

so given the needs of the jets and the depth and strengths of this draft, i'd probably take him at 6 if he's there (which i highly doubt he will be).

 

[Superman55]

it's hard to say because i cannot properly evaluate him, the person. he especially will need to be vetted for the off-field stuff, with personal interviews and psychology tests.

but gun to my head, yeah, i probably would roll the dice on him in this draft, because i don't think any other options at 6 will be that great. i assume cooper will be gone (and personally, i never loved using that high of a pick on WRs - i hated taking keyshawn #1 ), there are no franchise LTs in the draft (and i don't like using that high of a pick on a RT or G), and the strength of the draft is the strength of our team (d-line), so taking any of those lineman is a bit of a waste given the talent and depth we have at the position.

so given the needs of the jets and the depth and strengths of this draft, i'd probably take him at 6 if he's there (which i highly doubt he will be).

Gregory if a front 7 guy I'd really consider if he somehow falls...but I agree on the rest. I'd really like us to trade down unless Gregory falls.

 

[Superman55]

fair enough. those are guys you said you would have taken.

To be fair, Dennard may be no better than Pryor since he was given a redshirt year (and they may both turn out fine). Moncreif was only used in certain packages, so while he displayed amazing ability this year, still too early to say he's the answer opposite Hilton, but my guess is he will start next year and be a player.

I still feel good about Bruce Ellington too. Hope he gets a shot in San Fran this year.

 

[jetgreen13]

it's hard to say because i cannot properly evaluate him, the person. he especially will need to be vetted for the off-field stuff, with personal interviews and psychology tests.

but gun to my head, yeah, i probably would roll the dice on him in this draft, because i don't think any other options at 6 will be that great. i assume cooper will be gone (and personally, i never loved using that high of a pick on WRs - i hated taking keyshawn #1 ), there are no franchise LTs in the draft (and i don't like using that high of a pick on a RT or G), and the strength of the draft is the strength of our team (d-line), so taking any of those lineman is a bit of a waste given the talent and depth we have at the position.

so given the needs of the jets and the depth and strengths of this draft, i'd probably take him at 6 if he's there (which i highly doubt he will be).

agreed.. aside from absolutely bombing his team interviews i can't see winston still on the board at 6..

but if he's there at 6 i think you almost have to take him..

 

[nycdan]

Well, he has numerous off the field issues and 1 out of every 10 passes over 5 yards is an INT...and that's playing in sunny Florida. He doesn't throw tight spirals which causes the inaccuracy in his deep balls and has obvious maturity issues.

Winston is the type of player that gets coaches and GMs fired (right Mike Shanahan).

If you pick Winston, you better be right, or Mac will be on the Idzik 2 year plan. The first time he's arrested for anything (as an NFL player, him getting arrested at FSU was just called Friday night), Mac can flush his GM career down the toilet as every outlet will say, "I told you so, what a bad pick"...like the situation the Browns are in now with Manziel).

Drafting Winston would be putting all your chips in the middle the first time you play cards...will be interesting to see if Mac and Bowles take that risk.

It's not necessarily 'playing it safe' to pass on him. If we pass and the Bears take him at #7 and he turns out to be great, we'll be bashing Mac for decades to come for 'missing out'. If you're inclined to always play it safe, you really have no business being a GM. You have to know when risks are worth taking and then jump. Moving up for Sanchez was bold, and I think the right move even if it didn't work out. That's the kind of move I want to see our GM make when the conditions are right.

This is a very different situation than Manziel who I definitely wanted no part of. Manziel was a brat, an idiot, and small with no hope of being more than Doug Flutie at best. Winston may be an idiot, may flame out as well, but his ceiling is a LOT higher than Manziel's IMO.

I don't have anywhere near the info on Winston to decide if he's a good gamble or not at #6 but if we take him, I'll be excited and hopeful.

 

[hobson54]

agreed.. aside from absolutely bombing his team interviews i can't see winston still on the board at 6..

but if he's there at 6 i think you almost have to take him..

to play devil's advocate (on my own position), if he's there at 6, you gotta think there are some huge flashing red lights for teams 1-5 to pass on him and no one trades up for him.

 

[Superman55]

In 2013 he threw 40 TD's and10 interceptions as a rookie. In 2014 he had a serious high ankle sprain in week two, that he aggravated again in week 4.

He was walking with a very pronounced limp. Had no mobility at all. Clearly it was affecting his delivery, and accuracy. He couldn't push off his back foot, or maintain his delivery. If you watched his game's it was noticeable that in the first half apparently when the ankle was stiff, his game was way off. As the game wore on, and the ankle loosened up, he played much more like he did in 2013. Played lights out, the second half of 90% of games. Put together late game winning drives week after week.

The only flaw I can see in his game is when he throws deep, he uses an unconventional wind up. Still the ball is vey accurate, and gets there on time.

What fans think, doesn't mean anything. The only thing that matters is what GM's think. In all probability he will be selected with the 1st pick in the draft. If he isn't, the Titians will he hit with a deluge of trade offers.

If you pick any QB you better be right. Sanchez is the reason that Mike T left town.

Im not against fans of his. Who would you compare him to in the NFL today? He throws too many INts to be compared to Wilson. Even in college Wilson was a super conservative QB (he still is), so I wouldn't say him. Steve mcNair maybe? Is that would you would compare his NFL potential to? McNabb, Vick, Young? What do you think?

 

[Superman55]

It's not necessarily 'playing it safe' to pass on him. If we pass and the Bears take him at #7 and he turns out to be great, we'll be bashing Mac for decades to come for 'missing out'. If you're inclined to always play it safe, you really have no business being a GM. You have to know when risks are worth taking and then jump. Moving up for Sanchez was bold, and I think the right move even if it didn't work out. That's the kind of move I want to see our GM make when the conditions are right.

This is a very different situation than Manziel who I definitely wanted no part of. Manziel was a brat, an idiot, and small with no hope of being more than Doug Flutie at best. Winston may be an idiot, may flame out as well, but his ceiling is a LOT higher than Manziel's IMO.

I don't have anywhere near the info on Winston to decide if he's a good gamble or not at #6 but if we take him, I'll be excited and hopeful.

I'd be excited too. Once they are on the jets, I curse him on boards and rain nothing but praises when he's on TV trying to help us win a damn game...I may curse Kyle Wilson up and down on these boards, but let him make an INT and I'll scream something stupid like, "I knew you had it in you." Deep down, and on these boards, my head says...no you didn't.

I would be excited if we added Winston to see how it all plays out, and of course I'd hope for the next Tarkenton (but with SB wins)...but the back of my head would be waiting for the shoe to drop and thinking, man I hope this kid isn't the next Pacman Jones like he appears to be...

 

[jetgreen13]

to play devil's advocate (on my own position), if he's there at 6, you gotta think there are some huge flashing red lights for teams 1-5 to pass on him and no one trades up for him.

their were *sniff* flashing red with lights with marino as well..

LOLz being an NFL GM is brutal!!

 

[nycdan]

I'd be excited too. Once they are on the jets, I curse him on boards and rain nothing but praises when he's on TV trying to help us win a damn game...I may curse Kyle Wilson up and down on these boards, but let him make an INT and I'll scream something stupid like, "I knew you had it in you." Deep down, and on these boards, my head says...no you didn't.

I would be excited if we added Winston to see how it all plays out, and of course I'd hope for the next Tarkenton (but with SB wins)...but the back of my head would be waiting for the shoe to drop and thinking, man I hope this kid isn't the next Pacman Jones like he appears to be...

You don't have to go back to Pacman Jones for a negative comparison. We had a much more recent example of stupidity destroying an NFL career before it even began just last year. And same position to boot.

If Winston wants to look at the two ways his career can go, he should consider Roethlisberger, who waited until after he won a SB to start indulging his inner asshole, and Manziel, who didn't even wait until he started a game. One is a very wealthy asshole and one will be appearing with Danny Bonaduce on D-list reality TV in 5 years. Of course he could also just fly straight and be non-controversial I suppose...

 

[OCCH]

Im not against fans of his. Who would you compare him to in the NFL today? He throws too many INts to be compared to Wilson. Even in college Wilson was a super conservative QB (he still is), so I wouldn't say him. Steve mcNair maybe? Is that would you would compare his NFL potential to? McNabb, Vick, Young? What do you think?

I'm not saying you're implying anything, but I couldn't help but notice you only mentioned black QBs. Is there no other comparable player? (I only ask because I don't watch CFB and it WOULD help to have a current player to compare him to, if only to better form my own opinion of him) . . .

 

[Superman55]

I'm not saying you're implying anything, but I couldn't help but notice you only mentioned black QBs. Is there no other comparable player? (I only ask because I don't watch CFB and it WOULD help to have a current player to compare him to, if only to better form my own opinion of him) . . .

Steve Young was black? I never knew...

Oh, you were thinking Vince Young. Well, I was only pointing our successful QBs in my grouping because the response was to someone who felt Winston was an elite QB prospect, so I only stated mobil successful QBs...if you read 2 posts down, I compared him to tarkenton...that makes 2 white QBs and 3 black QBs I've compared him to...if you included Big Ben, it's a 3:3 tie, but I didn't say Big Ben, the above response did...

 

[flgreen]

Im not against fans of his. Who would you compare him to in the NFL today? He throws too many INts to be compared to Wilson. Even in college Wilson was a super conservative QB (he still is), so I wouldn't say him. Steve mcNair maybe? Is that would you would compare his NFL potential to? McNabb, Vick, Young? What do you think?

Big Ben. Guy is powerful, particularly lower body, not very fast, but can run over LB's when he has a head of steam, and shake off DE's in the Pocket. Re-set, and fire upfield. As I mentioned in the post above, IMO a lot of his picks this year were due to a sprained ankle that wouldn't let him set up, and follow thru correctly. After turnovers, he frequently comes back an throws a TD next possession.

All the scrutiny , and piling on by the media he was under this year didn't affect his play on the field.

Can't say I am a natural fan of his. I'm a Canes fan. I should hate him because he played for the Noles. After watching him many times last year, and rooting for him to fail, I came away very impressed. After the sexual assault stuff started I was hoping he would go to prison. LOL . After following the case it became clear some woman was trying to set him up.

Seen him play 17 times now. Only game I can think of that he had a bad game was the Gators game this year. Think he is a perfect fit for the Jets. If I'm GM, and the Bucs take Mariota, I trade up to #2 .

Your right, if a new GM swings and misses on a top 5 QB pick, he probably is an ex-GM with in 5 years. If he hits a home run on that QB, he is probably going to the HOF with Bellichick.

I would hate to see the Jets pass on another Marino type, and draft another Gholston pass rusher.

 

[Superman55]

Big Ben. Guy is powerful, particularly lower body, not very fast, but can run over LB's when he has a head of steam, and shake off DE's in the Pocket. Re-set, and fire upfield. As I mentioned in the post above, IMO a lot of his picks this year were due to a sprained ankle that wouldn't let him set up, and follow thru correctly. After turnovers, he frequently comes back an throws a TD next position.

All the scrutiny , and piling on by the media he was under this year didn't affect his play on the field.

Can't say I am a natural fan of his. I'm a Canes fan. I should hate him because he played for the Noles. After watching him many times last year, and rooting for him to fail, I came away very impressed. After the sexual assault stuff started I was hoping he would go to prison. LOL . After following the case it became clear some woman was trying to set him up.

Seen him play 17 times now. Only game I can think of that he had a bad game was the Gators game this year. Think he is a perfect fit for the Jets. If I'm GM, and the Bucs take Mariota, I trade up to #2 .

Your right, if a new GM swings and misses on a top 5 QB pick, he probably is an ex-GM with in 5 years. If he hits a home run on that QB, he is probably going to the HOF with Bellichick.

I would hate to see the Jets pass on another Marino type, and draft another Gholston pass rusher.

You have to take a risk if you hope to cash in big. We'll see. I think he goes to Tampa anyway. *shrug*