The Main Problem

[gastineau]

Team is half built. Also White telegraphing passes when under pressure is sad. Now every team knows that Blitz White and he will stare at the WRs where he is passing to. I tip my cap at Saleh for protecting White from a shamefull INT rate from staring where he is passing under pressure.

 

[gastineau]

white locked in passing to WR soon as ball is snapped. Even more amazing is Media wants fans to follow them. Media want to push Jets fans buttons and dont want Jets to Win. Seen that with Rex in first 2 years making all the Media eat crow that was talking crap about him. Saleh doesnt have the team to do this and not sending White out there knowing he is telegraphing passes for another bad game. Saleh not having media run his team and telling him who to start at QB because media is too stupid to see why.

 

[skop]

Saleh and entire Coaching staff is doing OK considering they are learning news jobs with a Jets Team that's half built at best. Remember the Jets hasn't been built right since GM IDZIK took over and then Mikey came in doing stupid Drafts with both Drafting so fricken terrible to current pile of Jets trash. If Jets GM goes out buying a few key positions and gets enough good picks next year's Draft we could compete next year. I agree with treating Players like men. I always treated my crew with respect, new guys or older as long as I got their best I treated them all as such. BUT also if someone continues to goof up or not work hard making mistakes over and over like it's a new JOB every day ,I come down on them hard! I tell them at a crew meeting a warning and then point out the ones screwing us all over. I tell rest of crew that these lazy bastards are going to ruin it for us all. Then I'm going to treat each person like they are working. Since these persons not working like a man, I will be treating them as a child they are acting like. Pointing out they are making millions and short time to do this and then if they want to ruin their lives getting fat,lazy,drugs,drinking and maybe prison they can. After warning the guys screwing the rest of crew I humiliate them non stop in front of the crew pointing out on film in this case his lack of effort, quitting, and totally stupid moves like a child playing tiny tot football. No way would I allow them Players to screw me and crew with treating them with respect like adult because you have to act like a man working to get treated as such.

A ton of truth in that statement!

 

[skop]

no doubt we are seeing the ugly combo of injuries and inexperience....but I would agree a fair amount of arrogance is wafting in. I was troubled by seeing no help covering Diggs. His answer was a blitz - whoopsie, didn't work. Now granted they are getting exploited by better teams likely to be in postseason chase, and yes they look competitive at times, but now they are on tape and opponents are dialing up the weak spots.

The poor depth/size at LB was the worst possible matchup in that Colts game - mainly because their OL could neutralize the Jets DL - leaving undersized LBs getting swept aside.

I do not like the premature shortsighted tone of local writers who want a GM head on a stake. They have no idea what he was tasked with and that it's not an overnight fix. We're seeing the disastrous results of prior regime drafts - there is no base to augment right now. They are paper thin and have bad injuries. We don't have roster depth from past 5-6-7 drafts to fill roles. 2 drafts don't construct a roster.

I fully expect them to more competitive against the weaker part of the schedule and the writers will inevitably not see it properly.

things Jets have to get accomplished before season is over;
1. Zach playing and running the offense correctly
2. Becton on the field to improve OL overall
3. Carter/Moore finish strong to set the tone for 2022

..thing is here the draft is a success if you have the first 4 rounds contributing and pointing northward. Picks after that are depth and lottery tickets in future years. Would like to see more of the 2020 draft class show up.

Great analysis!!

i couldn't agree more with your 1 through 3 list...but that doesn't mean a game or two longer with Zach watching would be a bad thing.
I would actually love to see him in the booth with LaFleur for the remaining games he sits.

i agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment on Douglas; my only critique is not finishing the O-Line in year 2.

in fairness, he might draft our Future RT, C, and RG this year, and complete it in three years, giving us 3 solid years with everyone under contract before Becton's rookie deal is complete; but i would have loved for him to get it finished last year with Josh Myers or Creed Humphrey at C in round 2, and then Trey Smith at RG in round 5...all 3 are starters as we speak.

of course that means we wouldn't have E. Moore at WR, but i believe the OLine is the most important unit on the field and to have that completed could have paid dividends to receivers, QB, and RB's...tangentially to the D too by keeping them off of the field.

then put a crowned jewel receiver in in this draft.

 

[skop]

Team is half built. Also White telegraphing passes when under pressure is sad. Now every team knows that Blitz White and he will stare at the WRs where he is passing to. I tip my cap at Saleh for protecting White from a shamefull INT rate from staring where he is passing under pressure.

CINCY GAME
in the Cincy game, the coaches said they called plays to "push the ball down field", and Cincy saw Zach trying to do it before his injury.
White, seeing what Zach was leaving on the table, had a field day...the flats to the RBs, TE's, and slots were open for business.
White exposed Cincy for not dedicating coverage to the stuff underneath...let the YAC begin!!

BILLS GAME
in the Bills game, the Bills got quick 3 & outs because they stuffed the underneath passing routes.
Rex did the same thing to Manning and Brady in back to back games in the 2010 playoffs....works of art.
White had to start targeting/locking in on the number 1 option, because the check downs were blanketed.

IMO, that's where he proved he shouldn't have been "the first pick overall". the number one option was the best play against the Bills, but some QB's can pull the trigger on timing routes, and deep crossing routes before the receivers break and some cannot.

i don't know that he was staring them down more than any other QB would have, but he didn't let it rip before the break and gave the DB's time to react.

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Bad players. Bad coaching. GM picked all of them.

 

[Retired AFA]

Saleh is giving all these young guys a chance to play and see what they can offer the team in the long run. Saleh can play all the veteran's and hope to win a game or 2 just like Gase did while stunting the growth of the rookies. Let him to his job. We're not going to the playoffs.

 

[ReallyBigfan]

Imho... The Main Problem is fans like many of the posters on this thread who either have no concept of what a rebuild is or lack the self-restraint to endure it and see the bigger picture. Robert Saleh was the right choice for the Jets not because he was going to turn a very flawed and undertalented team into contenders in his first season, but because he has a plan to turn the Jets over time into perennial contenders, and the discipline to stick with his plan through the ups and downs. Stay the course, challenge young players and give them a chance to experience failure and grow from it. Anyone who expected a better record than the Jets have now was, frankly, delusional.

 

[cheaterhater]

Imho... The Main Problem is fans like many of the posters on this thread who either have no concept of what a rebuild is or lack the self-restraint to endure it and see the bigger picture. Robert Saleh was the right choice for the Jets not because he was going to turn a very flawed and undertalented team into contenders in his first season, but because he has a plan to turn the Jets over time into perennial contenders, and the discipline to stick with his plan through the ups and downs. Stay the course, challenge young players and give them a chance to experience failure and grow from it. Anyone who expected a better record than the Jets have now was, frankly, delusional.

that may all be true, but what has everybody frustrated is the constant state of half ass rebuild that has been going on here forever. If this regime is doing it right then thats great, bjt everyone has seen the past failures of countless rebuilds and have run out of patience

also, at the very least, we all expected this team to look better than it did under Gase. we are still seeing the same characteristics that make us think, same ole jets. thats whats frustrating

 

[gastineau]

NY media loves drama, shit stirring drama queens and their fav targets is Jets fans. They love us to bash and crash on current management, coaching after a few weeks and half built team. I knew Jets wasnt winning this year and next year. Im not crashing the GM, Coaches I wanted after a few games. What I do expect it a Jets team to be better next year and by 4th year to have enough to make playoffs. Jets with a mean streak making Patriots think twice with dirty play giving it back all game if they do it. I want big physical beatings to division teams for a win streak. Not a Brown Streak from getting the crap knocked out of our Jets by Pats.

 

[hatnlvr]

NY media loves drama, shit stirring drama queens and their fav targets is Jets fans. They love us to bash and crash on current management, coaching after a few weeks and half built team. I knew Jets wasnt winning this year and next year. Im not crashing the GM, Coaches I wanted after a few games. What I do expect it a Jets team to be better next year and by 4th year to have enough to make playoffs. Jets with a mean streak making Patriots think twice with dirty play giving it back all game if they do it. I want big physical beatings to division teams for a win streak. Not a Brown Streak from getting the crap knocked out of our Jets by Pats.

I'll be the first to say, I came into this season with ZERO expectations as far as Win/Loss record. That being said, I never expected the team to "appear" to be getting worse. My expectation was to watch young players, making mistakes, but also showing potential, showing talent, but making mistakes.

What we are seeing is NONE of that. We are watching a coaching staff that appears clueless, and players who appear to be regressing, not improving. We could go 0-15, if we were showing potential and growth. Our fanbase are very passionate, but they are also very intelligent and understand the game. You aren't going to snowball us and feed us a line of bullshit. And for all intents and purposes, that is EXACTLY what the current CS & FO appear to be trying.

We truly don't have any players on the squad where you sit back and say "WOW he is going to be a stud, once he figures this out"! We pretty much have question marks Top to Bottom, on the entire roster and Coaching staff.

 

[ReallyBigfan]

that may all be true, but what has everybody frustrated is the constant state of half ass rebuild that has been going on here forever. If this regime is doing it right then thats great, bjt everyone has seen the past failures of countless rebuilds and have run out of patience

also, at the very least, we all expected this team to look better than it did under Gase. we are still seeing the same characteristics that make us think, same ole jets. thats whats frustrating

I get it and I understand the frustration - I've been an avid Jets fan since ~1966. But to me it is so clear that Joe D. and Robert Saleh & Co. are head and shoulders above their predecessors and know what they are doing. They have a plan and they will stick to it regardless of how impatient and fickle the media and fans are. And that is the ONLY way to achieve long term success, so I am more than fine with it.

 

[Namath12]

Imho... The Main Problem is fans like many of the posters on this thread who either have no concept of what a rebuild is or lack the self-restraint to endure it and see the bigger picture. Robert Saleh was the right choice for the Jets not because he was going to turn a very flawed and undertalented team into contenders in his first season, but because he has a plan to turn the Jets over time into perennial contenders, and the discipline to stick with his plan through the ups and downs. Stay the course, challenge young players and give them a chance to experience failure and grow from it. Anyone who expected a better record than the Jets have now was, frankly, delusional.

I had no expectations for this year, based on the absolute lack of talent provided by our two previous GMs,and our youth. However, I still question the rigidity of the.schemes Saleh is using. I will argue that there should be more flexibility in his schemes precisely *because* we have such a young team. How do you *not* provide help for Guidry when he had to cover Diggs? Saying “We don’t do that” is unacceptable to me. You have to have the flexibility to make in-game adjustments, as well as week-to-week adjustments.
I am concerned that even when we *do* have more experience and talent,Salah’s rigidity will be a hindrance to us becoming a contender. The best coaches take away a team’s best player. Will Saleh?

 

[ReallyBigfan]

I'll be the first to say, I came into this season with ZERO expectations as far as Win/Loss record. That being said, I never expected the team to "appear" to be getting worse. My expectation was to watch young players, making mistakes, but also showing potential, showing talent, but making mistakes.

What we are seeing is NONE of that. We are watching a coaching staff that appears clueless, and players who appear to be regressing, not improving. We could go 0-15, if we were showing potential and growth. Our fanbase are very passionate, but they are also very intelligent and understand the game. You aren't going to snowball us and feed us a line of bullshit. And for all intents and purposes, that is EXACTLY what the current CS & FO appear to be trying.

We truly don't have any players on the squad where you sit back and say "WOW he is going to be a stud, once he figures this out"! We pretty much have question marks Top to Bottom, on the entire roster and Coaching staff.

Your last sentence tells me all I need to know. If you have question marks on the coaching staff and youngest roster in the league after half a season, you are just a typical negative Jets fan who only sees the bad.

We truly don't have any players on the squad where you sit back and say "WOW he is going to be a stud, once he figures this out"!

Really? You haven't seen any of that from Elijah Moore? Michael Carter? Michael Carter II? Bryce Hall? Alijah Vera Tucker? Mekhi Becton (granted, not yet this season)? Quinnen Williams? Fatukasi? As I said above, just a typical negative Jets fan who is incapable of seeing the positives.

Joe Douglas inherited a talent-poor depthless team, and it takes a few years to overcome that. But he has already increased the talent level and has another haul of picks in the next draft to bring in another serious infusion of talent.

 

[ReallyBigfan]

I had no expectations for this year, based on the absolute lack of talent provided by our two previous GMs,and our youth. However, I still question the rigidity of the.schemes Saleh is using. I will argue that there should be more flexibility in his schemes precisely *because* we have such a young team. How do you *not* provide help for Guidry when he had to cover Diggs? Saying “We don’t do that” is unacceptable to me. You have to have the flexibility to make in-game adjustments, as well as week-to-week adjustments.
I am concerned that even when we *do* have more experience and talent,Salah’s rigidity will be a hindrance to us becoming a contender. The best coaches take away a team’s best player. Will Saleh?

If you truly had no expectations for this year, you would understand that it is not about winning games this season, it is about installing the foundation of their system, developing players, letting the players learn and grow within the system.
As Jeff Ulbrich was quoted on ESPN this week:
...on the balance between tweaking the defense versus making wholesale schematic changes. He's said it's important not to abandon their foundation: "We're not going to make huge fundamental changes, and I know that might piss people off because they're like, ‘Change it, it's just s——-.'" He said they're improving at basic stuff, but acknowledges it hasn't translated to results.

And check out this ESPN article:
History Supports Jets Current Approach

 

[hatnlvr]

Your last sentence tells me all I need to know. If you have question marks on the coaching staff and youngest roster in the league after half a season, you are just a typical negative Jets fan who only sees the bad.

We truly don't have any players on the squad where you sit back and say "WOW he is going to be a stud, once he figures this out"!

Really? You haven't seen any of that from Elijah Moore? Michael Carter? Michael Carter II? Bryce Hall? Alijah Vera Tucker? Mekhi Becton (granted, not yet this season)? Quinnen Williams? Fatukasi? As I said above, just a typical negative Jets fan who is incapable of seeing the positives.

Joe Douglas inherited a talent-poor depthless team, and it takes a few years to overcome that. But he has already increased the talent level and has another haul of picks in the next draft to bring in another serious infusion of talent.

Actually you should check your own statements as you took one sentence and raced to a conclusion with knowing ZERO about who/what/where you are posting about.

After the past 2 weeks, I will say Moore is definitely playing better and showing some promise! Prior to the PAST 2 games! I stick by my guns! He showed no ability to get separation, no ability to make tough catches (he did have a very tough catch planted on his butt today that was impressive).

"Joe Douglas inherited a talent-poor depthless team"

Joe Douglas has taken every player with promise and traded them away. So your statement there can easily be flipped to "Joe Douglas has decreased the talent and depth on this team since he has taken over".

"But he has already increased the talent"

That statement is highly debatable! We aren't a competitive team, and still have more holes than answers. The defense is getting eaten alive, the O-Line can't block ANYONE (yet we keep spending 1st round capital on it year over year), and we still have NO #1 WR to speak of.

You can sling all the negative Nancy talk you want, but you are the one who took a post about the Team and tried to make it Personal. Try looking at your own statements and tactics before you start slinging accusations at others.

 

[cheaterhater]

I get it and I understand the frustration - I've been an avid Jets fan since ~1966. But to me it is so clear that Joe D. and Robert Saleh & Co. are head and shoulders above their predecessors and know what they are doing. They have a plan and they will stick to it regardless of how impatient and fickle the media and fans are. And that is the ONLY way to achieve long term success, so I am more than fine with it.

and we all hope you are right. it is the right way, whether it works for this cursed franchise is yet to be seen

 

[Namath12]

If you truly had no expectations for this year, you would understand that it is not about winning games this season, it is about installing the foundation of their system, developing players, letting the players learn and grow within the system.
As Jeff Ulbrich was quoted on ESPN this week:
...on the balance between tweaking the defense versus making wholesale schematic changes. He's said it's important not to abandon their foundation: "We're not going to make huge fundamental changes, and I know that might piss people off because they're like, ‘Change it, it's just s——-.'" He said they're improving at basic stuff, but acknowledges it hasn't translated to results.

And check out this ESPN article:
History Supports Jets Current Approach

Frankly, it seems to me that you don’t understand my point. I am not hung up on the won/loss record this year. Where did I say that I was in any of my posts in this thread, which I started, by the way?
My original point was that it was naive to expect the kind of development that we both want when so many of the key individuals were doing their jobs for the first time, mainly Saleh, LaFleur, and Zach. At the time, LaFleur was being heavily criticized, and I largely agreed with the criticism of him.
Lately, my attention has turned to Saleh, for the reasons that I stated in my previous post. I was ecstatic when he was hired, but I remain critical of some of his statements about the sanctity of his scheme.
I have already read the Cimini article, and don’t disagree with it.
If you want to argue with me, that’s fine, but argue about points that I actually made, not strawmen points that you make up.

 

[gmf1369]

This team was initially built with over priced players by Maccagnan when Gase was hired instead of contest the signing before they became official he waited so he can convince to the higher ups that he is incompetent now with a roster and several over payed players Gase couldn't do a damn thing with the roster but was able to get his friend hired as the GM...

Coming into any situation where you have a roster that is not built correctly there is only two things that can happen try to restructure the roster through the draft or continue signing players to enable the current structure to try to win games... Well unlike his former predecessors Joe Douglas chose the draft...

Ate some salary getting rid of players that were no good either lost a step or bad locker room guys... It might spell the end for CJ Mosley at least with this team he has lost weight after not playing for two seasons and has switched positions after 12 years of playing inside linebacker in a 3-4... Not saying he is not an intelligent player but there is only so much he can execute...

The main problem is just, we have the youngest team in football... The coaching staff rather lose games because players didn't do their jobs properly not by the refs calling bad penalties and giving the opposing team free gifts... Reason why we see Saleh hot on the sideline... Some players are not performing to expectations but it is not one player, it is multiple...

Building blocks started last year when Joe Douglas drafted OT Mekhi Becton (Rd 1), WR Denzel Mims (Rd 2), S Ashtyn Davis (Rd 3), DL Jabari Zuniga (Rd 3), RB La'Mical Perine (Rd 4), QB James Morgan (Rd 4), OL Cameron Clark (Rd 4), CB Bryce Hall (Rd 5) and P Braden Mann (Rd 6). Also note JD found a couple of diamond in the roughs in Javelin Guidry and Bryce Huff. Jury still out on Lamar Jackson (DB)...

Of the above draft only James Morgan chose to leave after being waived hopefully to be signed to the practice squad this year now has bounced around to a couple of teams.

Building blocks, took a chance on a couple guys to develop whom were really raw in Denzel Mims and Jabari Zuniga... Zuniga this year called up twice from the practice squad and played well... Mims on the active roster has had some ups and downs learning the route tree and trying to earn playing time... Cameron Clark suffered that devastating stinger which for safety reasons they placed him on IR... Of the rest, Ashtyn Davis has finally come into his own a few forced fumbles, got his first career interception today 11/21/2021 in a losing effort... Bryce Hall is now our starting CB1 being a 5th round pick... Javelin Guidry gets significant playing time and so does Bryce Huff...

Coming into this season no expectations we are rebuilding... Losses hurt but also teachable moments for the young players to grow from... Moving forward now with two potential superstars on offense in 4th round RB Michael Carter and 2nd round WR Elijah Moore both are sitting at the top of each others positional depth charts and producing as such...

Steals on the other side as well, two day three safeties converted to linebackers and we claimed Q's older brother who literally is lightening in a bottle... Tough loss with Carl Lawson but opens the door for other players to shine... New scheme, new responsibilities and communication which is key most of these players are not used to that combination...

I believe we might have a competent coaching staff but they will need to keep evaluating the roster and after this season a lot of players won't be back not because they are not talented it is because they don't or can't execute this scheme...

 

[Tinstar]

believe we might have a competent coaching staff but they will need to keep evaluating the roster and

I believe we might have a competent coaching staff but they will need to keep evaluating the roster and

Agreed and I also think that the GM is doing a good job also