Quinton Coples played just 15 snaps yesterday

[HYATT™]

Coples just isn't cut out to play OLB in a 3-4 system, nor is he a good fit at DE in the 3-4 either.
Some players are just what they are.
The best move the Jets could make with Coples is to trade him to a team that could use some depth and a good rotation DE in a 4-3 defense.
It's something every GM drafting a 'tweener is betting against, when he takes such a player.
The Jets lost that bet.

It'd be better for Coples and better for the Jets to exchange a failed Rd 1 investment for something that might pay bigger dividends down the road next year in the draft.
There's no shortage of 4-3 defenses that would love to have another hybrid bigger DE/faster DT on their roster.
He's got speed - for a DT - and he's got the size and strength to be a good run-stuffing LDE in a 4-3.

THAT is the simple HARD truth about Coples.

 

[Savage69]

I'm inclined to agree.

I'm not sure "he's certainly a goner." His play has been pretty good, but disappointing as a pass rusher.

He reminds me a lot of Bryan Thomas who was also a disappointment as a pass rusher, but hung around for a few seasons as a pretty solid player.

Not playing as much as Mo in his 1st 3 years Coples had 16.5 sacks the Mighty MO had 18.5 in his 1st 3 and he didn't have to change positions..

 

[Metjetgal]

excellent comparison..

I actually liked Thomas better. He was smarter, and had way more consistent play after his rookie season. I believe he was on the team for something like a decade .

 

[Savage69]

I actually liked Thomas better. He was smarter, and had way more consistent play after his rookie season. I believe he was on the team for something like a decade .

Yes he was and in his first 3 years he had a total of 3 sacks..

 

[flgreen]

Yes he was and in his first 3 years he had a total of 3 sacks..

Yep. 3 Sacks, and 59 tackles. Coples has 16.5 sacks, and 71 tackles

 

[ReallyBigfan]

I find it hard to believe that people who watch the games and don't just look at the stats would call him a bust. Has he reached star level? No, not yet at least. But he has had plenty of positive impact on games, blowing up runs and hurrying the passer on numerous occasions. There have also been plenty of plays where he has basically chased the QB into someone else's arms so they get the sack but he helped cause it. I think that his nagging injury is the main reason for his limited number of plays vs Miami, not the quality of his play. Btw, I can remember at least two sacks he's lost this season due to penalties on the plays - one, an absurd roughing the passer call against him (the ref claimed he grabbed the QB in the neck area while the replay showed clearly that he grabbed the jersey by the shoulder and hauled the QB down like that) and the other was a defensive holding call downfield. I think it is still too early to assume that he won't have a bunch of sacks by season's end.

 

[jets82]

Coples is a d-linemen. It was stupid then that they (the Rex erra) had a 280 + pounder playing LB and its still stupid now. About the only thing Bowles is doing I don't agree with but I guess they gotta have someplace to play him with the 10,000 d-linemen that are in the team. Pace old ass still playing also. Mauldin and Reilly should be starting.

 

[flgreen]

Coples is a d-linemen. It was stupid then that they (the Rex erra) had a 280 + pounder playing LB and its still stupid now. About the only thing Bowles is doing I don't agree with but I guess they gotta have someplace to play him with the 10,000 d-linemen that are in the team. Pace old ass still playing also. Mauldin and Reilly should be starting.

Pace's old ass is playing just fine. Like Mauldin and Reilly, but they are going to have to play better, and more consistent to take his job.

 

[Costigan77]

Coples is a d-linemen. It was stupid then that they (the Rex erra) had a 280 + pounder playing LB and its still stupid now. About the only thing Bowles is doing I don't agree with but I guess they gotta have someplace to play him with the 10,000 d-linemen that are in the team. Pace old ass still playing also. Mauldin and Reilly should be starting.

Pace has been in the backfield all season. He is playing better than he has in 4 years. What are you talking about?

 

[jets82]

Pace has been in the backfield all season. He is playing better than he has in 4 years. What are you talking about?

What I'm talking about is he's old and can't play all phases of the LB position. Then again, maybe none of our LBs can. We need more youth and speed at LB. That could free up our corners and safeties from blitzing so much. That will or may come and bite us in the ass against better QBs like Brady or better WR corps like the Giants later on this year. Maybe Teilly and Maudlin arent talented enough to play all phases of the game but I sure would like to find out. We all know Coples and Pace can't. Coples is straight playing out of position and Pace has list two steps, not one but two.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

What I'm talking about is he's old and can't play all phases of the LB position. Then again, maybe none of our LBs can. We need more youth and speed at LB. That could free up our corners and safeties from blitzing so much. That will or may come and bite us in the ass against better QBs like Brady or better WR corps like the Giants later on this year. Maybe Teilly and Maudlin arent talented enough to play all phases of the game but I sure would like to find out. We all know Coples and Pace can't. Coples is straight playing out of position and Pace has list two steps, not one but two.

I think if Mauldin and Reilly were better options than Coples and Pace right now, both Rodgers and Bowles would see it. Both coaches are very smart defensive minds. I don't think the rookies are ready yet for full time starter status. They're rotational guys at this point.

 

[jets82]

I think if Mauldin and Reilly were better options than Coples and Pace right now, both Rodgers and Bowles would see it. Both coaches are very smart defensive minds. I don't think the rookies are ready yet for full time starter status. They're rotational guys at this point.

Agreed, can't argue that

 

[soj]

I think we all agree out LB cores is not a strength of this team. they are not bad but we do need to get some younger guys in with more speed to cover wheel routs, i.e., like Philly. AS for Couples the scheme called for more DB and safety not anything to do with him... per HC.

 

[Lakerfan80]

Good point about the defensive scheme vs. Miami regarding Coples. He may get many more snaps against the Skins because they will run the ball.

 

[maxmet]

I would predict that we see more of Coples against the Skins....and then less of him against the Pats based on the matchups. I would not be surprised if our base defense against the Pats is a nickle package.

 

[SackExchange]

I would predict that we see more of Coples against the Skins....and then less of him against the Pats based on the matchups. I would not be surprised if our base defense against the Pats is a nickle package.

That's interesting. Why would you go with a nickel base against the Pats?

 

[maxmet]

I'd go nickel to get more speed out there. rather than our slowish outside LBs. I dont think the Pats are a grind it out offense - if they think they can run on us in a nickel, lets see.

Plus, I think our DBs are better players than our OLBs.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

I would predict that we see more of Coples against the Skins....and then less of him against the Pats based on the matchups. I would not be surprised if our base defense against the Pats is a nickle package.

That's interesting. Why would you go with a nickel base against the Pats?

I'd go nickel to get more speed out there. rather than our slowish outside LBs. I dont think the Pats are a grind it out offense - if they think they can run on us in a nickel, lets see.

Plus, I think our DBs are better players than our OLBs.

I'll take it a step further ...

On Sunday (vs Miami) Bowles was pretty much in a base dime, and the same was true verses Indy.

I'm not sure about the front we used verses Miami, I haven't seen any numbers on that, but verses Indy we played mostly a four man front with the dime and I would expect something similar verses the Patriots, one of the few teams in the league as pass heavy as Indy, especially with Sheldon coming back.

As maxmet suggested, if the Patriots want to take the ball out of Tom Brady's hands and attack that defense according to the book, which is to run on a dime defense, I think Bowles and every Jets fan on the planet would welcome that, lets see them run on our front four and turn it into a grind it out affair, otherwise they can let Tom Brady air it out as usual, but he'll be doing it into a flooded zone and while being pressured too, because Bowles blitzes like crazy in his dime scheme, mostly sending a DB, only you never know which one is coming ... add that to our four man front of Sheldon, Snacks, Wilkerson and Williams, and you have a nightmare to contend with, extra DB's in coverage, a four man front that can rush the passer without any help, and a random DB coming on most downs too.

Incidentally this comes as no surprise, Bowles played more dime defense than any DC in the league last year, and he was notorious for blitzing from his dime in Arizona too. On Sunday we saw much the same, he blitzed on a staggering 70% of defensive downs, and mostly from the dime package.

When you have a dominant D-line like the Jets, and terrific, ballhawking DB's on the back-end too, this defense is difficult to beat. It might be the most innovative scheme in all of football to counter the rules changes and passing offenses like NE and Indy ... and if they want to go away from what they do best and turn it into a low scoring, grind it out affair, that plays right into our hands too, who wouldn't want to take the ball out of Tom Brady hands and give it to the Patriots RB's?

 

[SackExchange]

I'll take it a step further ...

On Sunday (vs Miami) Bowles was pretty much in a base dime, and the same was true verses Indy.

I'm not sure about the front we used verses Miami, I haven't seen any numbers on that, but verses Indy we played mostly a four man front with the dime and I would expect something similar verses the Patriots, one of the few teams in the league as pass heavy as Indy, especially with Sheldon coming back.

As maxmet suggested, if the Patriots want to take the ball out of Tom Brady's hands and attack that defense according to the book, which is to run on a dime defense, I think Bowles and every Jets fan on the planet would welcome that, lets see them run on our front four and turn it into a grind it out affair, otherwise they can let Tom Brady air it out as usual, but he'll be doing it into a flooded zone and while being pressured too, because Bowles blitzes like crazy in his dime scheme, mostly sending a DB, only you never know which one is coming ... add that to our four man front of Sheldon, Snacks, Wilkerson and Williams, and you have a nightmare to contend with, extra DB's in coverage, a four man front that can rush the passer without any help, and a random DB coming on most downs too.

Incidentally this comes as no surprise, Bowles played more dime defense than any DC in the league last year, and he was notorious for blitzing from his dime in Arizona too. On Sunday we saw much the same, he blitzed on a staggering 70% of defensive downs, and mostly from the dime package.

When you have a dominant D-line like the Jets, and terrific, ballhawking DB's on the back-end too, this defense is difficult to beat. It might be the most innovative scheme in all of football to counter the rules changes and passing offenses like NE and Indy ... and if they want to go away from what they do best and turn it into a low scoring, grind it out affair, that plays right into our hands too, who wouldn't want to take the ball out of Tom Brady hands and give it to the Patriots RB's?

Valid points. The one concern in going with a speed package is the TE factor. With the physical way the Pats get the TE involved in the passing game, I might be concerned about going with a smaller unit.

The other factor is the pass rush. You beat Brady by dropping him to the turf early. Going to the nickel, unless you plan on blitz packages in the first quarter, may limit your ability to do that. Brady is a QB you have to pressure, not let sit back in the pocket while you go into a shell.

You guys make solid arguments, but that would be my counter.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

The other factor is the pass rush. You beat Brady by dropping him to the turf early. Going to the nickel, unless you plan on blitz packages in the first quarter, may limit your ability to do that. Brady is a QB you have to pressure, not let sit back in the pocket while you go into a shell.

I couldn't agree more, but thats what I love about Bowles scheme, his dime is not your usual, passive, bend but don't break, prevent defense that drives fans crazy and that elite QB's like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers can eat for lunch.

Bowles is super aggressive out of his dime and the Miami game is a perfect example. He sent the blitz on 70% of our defensive snaps in London (similar to Indy), an unbelievably high number, and mostly he did it from the dime by sending a random DB which changed from down to down, and I watched how he disguised it by bringing multiple DB's up to the LOS then sending one or two and having the rest play coverage.

IMO it was impossible to pick out the blitzer(s) and Chad Pennington commented on that too in his weekly discussion with the Jets website. He remarked that the most difficult blitz to contend with is when you cannot pick out the blitzer in your pre snap reads, and Bowles does a terrific job at disguising his blitzes so you really don't know which one is coming until the ball is snapped. I saw it exactly the same way on Sunday. I could not guess pre snap.

That said, there is also the problem that the Jets front-four presents. The Jets have so much legit blue-chip talent up front, especially with Sheldon Richardson coming back, that they are one of the few teams in the league that can consistently pressure the QB with their D-line. That is a terrific luxury for Bowles because he can play his dime without sacrificing the pass rush, then blitz an added DB or two and really wreck havoc.

He also has a linebacker on the field that he can and often does send after the QB too, sometimes two linebackers if he pulls Snacks on obvious passing downs like 3rd and long.

I don't know if any defense can slowdown the Pats, but IMO if there's a defense that was built to slowdown the Pats, that has the personnel as well as the scheme, this one is it.

If you're Belichick and you are game-planning for the Jets, here's the conclusion you must come too about Bowles defense, he's inviting us to run the football and daring us to throw. If we accept his invitation we are taking the ball out of our HOF QB's hands, and if we accept his dare, we are playing right into their hands.