Best strategy for off season

[mykcuz]

With the lead up to the super bowl focusing on the two strong defensive teams, broncos and panthers, and being a copy cat league, how should we approach acquiring next year's talent?

The Jets already had a record number of 1st rounders on the defensive side of the ball, including one getting dropped on his but in coples. I also heard a fact that I hasn't realized, all of tom Bradys super bowls came when new England's defense shined. Which makes sense, they're historic offense lead them to an undefeated season, but couldn't best the Giants defense.

I'm wondering, should we continue working towards a dominant nfl defense with depth and a manageable offense, or should we seek balance?

Personally, I'm leaning towards addressing 1 spot on the o line and rb, otherwise defensively improving olb,ilb,cb,and safety.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

AT least 2 spots on OL and RB. 2 LB's. We still have lots of holes for a 10-6 team.

 

[mykcuz]

AT least 2 spots on OL and RB. 2 LB's. We still have lots of holes for a 10-6 team.

I think the way the nfl works now, is you always have holes, you have to work how to minimize them.

Of course, we have many needs, I meant where do we prioritize.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[jetgreen13]

I think the way the nfl works now, is you always have holes, you have to work how to minimize them.

Of course, we have many needs, I meant where do we prioritize.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

agreed..we were so far under the cap we were mandated to spend this season..

mac won executive of the year & he still has a lot of work to do year 2..

that said, very interested to see what we do at 20 (including trading up or down) because we are not drafting out of desperation in my view..

 

[flgreen]

For some reason no body wants to listen to what Macc is saying............

"You build consistent winners thru the draft"...........

"You NEVER reach for a player in the draft because of need. Need is only a tie breaker"

I believe he's telling the truth. That's going to be his strategy this off-season, and every off-season he remains GM. It's an excellent strategy. Sometimes excellent players fall to you, who aren't at a need position. last year with Williams, and White sitting on the board is an excellent example.

At 20 this year, who ever is at the top of Macc's big board, will be a Jet. Doesn't matter if he's a DL, WR, edge rusher, or QB. As fluid as the NFL is right now with FA, a position of strength can be a need position the following season.

Look at the Jets. People were howling last season about taking Williams. "WE'RE FAT AT DL!!!!!! TAKE WHITE!!

Now it appears the Jets are going to move away from both Wilkerson, and Snacks. It's next man up time on the DL. Thankfully they have a "next man up" in Williams

 

[mykcuz]

For some reason no body wants to listen to what Macc is saying............

"You build consistent winners thru the draft"...........

"You NEVER reach for a player in the draft because of need. Need is only a tie breaker"

I believe he's telling the truth. That's going to be his strategy this off-season, and every off-season he remains GM. It's an excellent strategy. Sometimes excellent players fall to you, who aren't at a need position. last year with Williams, and White sitting on the board is an excellent example.

At 20 this year, who ever is at the top of Macc's big board, will be a Jet. Doesn't matter if he's a DL, WR, edge rusher, or QB. As fluid as the NFL is right now with FA, a position of strength can be a need position the following season.

Look at the Jets. People were howling last season about taking Williams. "WE'RE FAT AT DL!!!!!! TAKE WHITE!!

Now it appears the Jets are going to move away from both Wilkerson, and Snacks. It's next man up time on the DL. Thankfully they have a "next man up" in Williams

You seem to be emotional about the draft, my question was in regard to the off season. That includes free agents, trades, drafts, and undrated fa's.
Last year MACC used ALL of the above to improve the team.

A common thought over the years has been, we draft defense in the first round every year while our offense was embarrassing, and it's time to start drafting offense in the first. Something that made sense, until I see how much defense is still the leading cause of a championship.

Then you have the balanced approach guys.

I'm wondering, does it make sense to have a dominant defense be our focus, while trusting our now improved offense is adequate enough?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[flgreen]

You seem to be emotional about the draft, my question was in regard to the off season. That includes free agents, trades, drafts, and undrated fa's.
Last year MACC used ALL of the above to improve the team.

A common thought over the years has been, we draft defense in the first round every year while our offense was embarrassing, and it's time to start drafting offense in the first. Something that made sense, until I see how much defense is still the leading cause of a championship.

Then you have the balanced approach guys.

I'm wondering, does it make sense to have a dominant defense be our focus, while trusting our now improved offense is adequate enough?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

LOL

Emotional? Haven't cried over a draft since Gholston.

What's gone on over the years right now is a moot point. There's a new sheriff in town. His mantra is BAP. I like it. It would be foolish to take a player on offense, if the better player plays on defense, just to take an offensive player. Formula for a mediocre team.

As far as FA goes, Jets won't have much money to be big players this year. Lots of teams have lots of cap space. Jets don't. Get as many of out fA's signed that we can afford, then sign a few cheap role players.

Trades? smith for a bag of rocks.

Tag and trade Wilkerson.

If some body is trying to unload a problem child cheap, like Marshall last year, if Macc likes him role the dice.

 

[mykcuz]

LOL

Emotional? Haven't cried over a draft since Gholston.

What's gone on over the years right now is a moot point. There's a new sheriff in town. His mantra is BAP. I like it. It would be foolish to take a player on offense, if the better player plays on defense, just to take an offensive player. Formula for a mediocre team.

As far as FA goes, Jets won't have much money to be big players this year. Lots of teams have lots of cap space. Jets don't. Get as many of out fA's signed that we can afford, then sign a few cheap role players.

Trades? smith for a bag of rocks.

Tag and trade Wilkerson.

If some body is trying to unload a problem child cheap, like Marshall last year, if Macc likes him role the dice.

If his strategy is best player available, why did he trade up?

Yes emotional. I posed a basic question about direction of the organization. You kinda went on a rant about the draft.

Nothing we post matters to Mac.

The fact is, if we want to have some fun playing gm for a day, you need to have a focus. What are you trying to achieve? What are areas of improvement vs. Resources and players available. You don't just sit back and pick up some fa's on sale then go bpa and say let's see what kind of team we become.

What if every round bpa is a kicker? Do we draft 6 kickers?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[flgreen]

If his strategy is best player available, why did he trade up?

Yes emotional. I posed a basic question about direction of the organization. You kinda went on a rant about the draft.

Nothing we post matters to Mac.

The fact is, if we want to have some fun playing gm for a day, you need to have a focus. What are you trying to achieve? What are areas of improvement vs. Resources and players available. You don't just sit back and pick up some fa's on sale then go bpa and say let's see what kind of team we become.

What if every round bpa is a kicker? Do we draft 6 kickers?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Why did they trade up? That's an easy one. Petty was by far their highest rated pick, also filled a need. Jax calls tells the Jets they have another team interested in the pick. Jax would rather trade with the Jets, and still get their guy.

So for a 7th round pick they get a player they may have had a low 3rd round value on.

Didn't rant at all. Simply relaying to you what Macc has said. I have no real reason to think he's lying. He's sure said it enough, tend to think he means it




Darryl Slater ✔ @DarrylSlater
"Need and the draft, I've seen a lot of mistakes being made over the years with that," Mike Maccagnan says.
11:13 AM - 24 Apr 2015

Darryl Slater ✔ @DarrylSlater
Factoring need "too much" into the process can often cloud a team's assessment of a prospect and lead to draft mistakes, Maccagnan says.
11:12 AM - 24 Apr 2015

Darryl Slater ✔ @DarrylSlater
Maccagnan again says pro free agency is the best place to fill roster needs. He prefers to take "best player available" approach with draft.
11:11 AM - 24 Apr 2015

FLORHAM PARK — Next Thursday through Saturday, in the Jets' meeting room during the NFL Draft, don't expect general manager Mike Maccagnan or anybody else to openly discuss how badly the team must fill a need at a certain position.

That goes completely against Maccagnan's philosophy, as he explained Friday at his pre-draft press conference.

These are topics Maccagnan has covered before — that he prefers to fill positional needs through pro free agency, and that he would rather pick the best player available in the draft than select based heavily on positional need.

He offered even deeper insight Friday into his thought process, as the draft approaches. He made it clear he isn't a fan of attempting to fill needs exclusively via the draft.

"To me, it's one of those pet peeves," he said. "Need and the draft, I've seen a lot of mistakes being made over the years with that. So I've been very diligent, when I'm given this opportunity [as a rookie GM], I'm going to try to keep it as separate as possible. Now, obviously, every team has needs. I get that. You want to solve them as best you can. But just because you take somebody, and if he doesn't pan out, you're still going to have the same need a year from now. And you won't have solved the problem."............

Maccagnan's aversion to drafting heavily based on need doesn't mean the Jets won't take an edge rusher with the sixth pick. It all depends on what their draft board looks like. If, at that point, an edge rusher is the best player available — based on the Jets' assessment — there's a good chance Maccagnan will take him.

"I tend to believe, you don't really make that need-based decision on draft day," Maccagnan said..........


"When you go out in pro free agency, it's a much smarter and, quite frankly, much more efficient way to fill needs, because you're basically comparing apples to apples when you go out and sign pro players. You can analyze the tape. You know exactly what they've done in the league. They have a history of a level of production. So in my mindset, you go out in the pro side, and if you're going to ideally fill needs, you fill needs there......................


"I think the draft, I tend to focus on, ideally, you want to take the best player available. .......................


Because of the evaluation challenges involved in the draft, Maccagnan likes to evaluate draft prospects independent of outside factors.

"You literally grade them, to the best of your ability, in a bubble," Maccagnan said. "When you start factoring your need into the player evaluation, you run the risk of skewing your [evaluation] process, because it's a very subjective process............

 

[mykcuz]

Why did they trade up? That's an easy one. Petty was by far their highest rated pick, also filled a need. Jax calls tells the Jets they have another team interested in the pick. Jax would rather trade with the Jets, and still get their guy.

So for a 7th round pick they get a player they may have had a low 3rd round value on.

Didn't rant at all. Simply relaying to you what Macc has said. I have no real reason to think he's lying. He's sure said it enough, tend to think he means it




Darryl Slater ✔ @DarrylSlater
"Need and the draft, I've seen a lot of mistakes being made over the years with that," Mike Maccagnan says.
11:13 AM - 24 Apr 2015

Darryl Slater ✔ @DarrylSlater
Factoring need "too much" into the process can often cloud a team's assessment of a prospect and lead to draft mistakes, Maccagnan says.
11:12 AM - 24 Apr 2015

Darryl Slater ✔ @DarrylSlater
Maccagnan again says pro free agency is the best place to fill roster needs. He prefers to take "best player available" approach with draft.
11:11 AM - 24 Apr 2015

FLORHAM PARK — Next Thursday through Saturday, in the Jets' meeting room during the NFL Draft, don't expect general manager Mike Maccagnan or anybody else to openly discuss how badly the team must fill a need at a certain position.

That goes completely against Maccagnan's philosophy, as he explained Friday at his pre-draft press conference.

These are topics Maccagnan has covered before — that he prefers to fill positional needs through pro free agency, and that he would rather pick the best player available in the draft than select based heavily on positional need.

He offered even deeper insight Friday into his thought process, as the draft approaches. He made it clear he isn't a fan of attempting to fill needs exclusively via the draft.

"To me, it's one of those pet peeves," he said. "Need and the draft, I've seen a lot of mistakes being made over the years with that. So I've been very diligent, when I'm given this opportunity [as a rookie GM], I'm going to try to keep it as separate as possible. Now, obviously, every team has needs. I get that. You want to solve them as best you can. But just because you take somebody, and if he doesn't pan out, you're still going to have the same need a year from now. And you won't have solved the problem."............

Maccagnan's aversion to drafting heavily based on need doesn't mean the Jets won't take an edge rusher with the sixth pick. It all depends on what their draft board looks like. If, at that point, an edge rusher is the best player available — based on the Jets' assessment — there's a good chance Maccagnan will take him.

"I tend to believe, you don't really make that need-based decision on draft day," Maccagnan said..........


"When you go out in pro free agency, it's a much smarter and, quite frankly, much more efficient way to fill needs, because you're basically comparing apples to apples when you go out and sign pro players. You can analyze the tape. You know exactly what they've done in the league. They have a history of a level of production. So in my mindset, you go out in the pro side, and if you're going to ideally fill needs, you fill needs there......................


"I think the draft, I tend to focus on, ideally, you want to take the best player available. .......................


Because of the evaluation challenges involved in the draft, Maccagnan likes to evaluate draft prospects independent of outside factors.

"You literally grade them, to the best of your ability, in a bubble," Maccagnan said. "When you start factoring your need into the player evaluation, you run the risk of skewing your [evaluation] process, because it's a very subjective process............

Again, I don't mean to say you went on a rant, just that I made a simple statement, and it seemed like a sore spot for you. Not trying to insult you at all.

Listen I get need in fa and bpa in draft. But as you quoted, people tend to lean too heavily on need in draft, he said. That means he's suggesting it does play a role, he just doesn't want to go too deep down the rabbit hole, or just blindly draft need.
Bpa is very subjective, what is best? It's a weight of all aspects of how he will improve your team both short and long term. Maybe highest potential ceiling is best, maybe being a quick contributer is.
Maybe a pro style pass rushing olb who can make a huge improvement in play over pace, is better than a guy you score a little higher but needs some work.

Just like any business, you need a direction, a focus. You can't be great at everything, so where do we focus?

Do we trade MO to improve our lb play? Or maybe for a stud o linemen or rb? There's many directional questions outside of the draft.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[isired]

Again, I don't mean to say you went on a rant, just that I made a simple statement, and it seemed like a sore spot for you. Not trying to insult you at all.

Listen I get need in fa and bpa in draft. But as you quoted, people tend to lean too heavily on need in draft, he said. That means he's suggesting it does play a role, he just doesn't want to go too deep down the rabbit hole, or just blindly draft need.
Bpa is very subjective, what is best? It's a weight of all aspects of how he will improve your team both short and long term. Maybe highest potential ceiling is best, maybe being a quick contributer is.
Maybe a pro style pass rushing olb who can make a huge improvement in play over pace, is better than a guy you score a little higher but needs some work.

Just like any business, you need a direction, a focus. You can't be great at everything, so where do we focus?

Do we trade MO to improve our lb play? Or maybe for a stud o linemen or rb? There's many directional questions outside of the draft.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Macc did say need played a role in the draft, as a tiebreaker.

I tend to agree with him though, since the draft is pretty much a crapshoot, the only way to tilt the odds is to go pretty much BPA. FA is more predictable, or at least you generally know if your FA prospect is blue chip, is a transition or reclamation project, has injury issues etc. With the draft there's a million more variables, on field and off.

 

[flgreen]

Again, I don't mean to say you went on a rant, just that I made a simple statement, and it seemed like a sore spot for you. Not trying to insult you at all.

Listen I get need in fa and bpa in draft. But as you quoted, people tend to lean too heavily on need in draft, he said. That means he's suggesting it does play a role, he just doesn't want to go too deep down the rabbit hole, or just blindly draft need.
Bpa is very subjective, what is best? It's a weight of all aspects of how he will improve your team both short and long term. Maybe highest potential ceiling is best, maybe being a quick contributer is.
Maybe a pro style pass rushing olb who can make a huge improvement in play over pace, is better than a guy you score a little higher but needs some work.

Just like any business, you need a direction, a focus. You can't be great at everything, so where do we focus?

Do we trade MO to improve our lb play? Or maybe for a stud o linemen or rb? There's many directional questions outside of the draft.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Oh it's all good, I honestly seldom get angry on the boards. i guess sometimes things just come out wrong.

Oh course I've never been in a draft room, but what I've read is after the Senior Bowl, like this week, Gm all the scouts, director of player personnel ect. get together in the draft room and come up with a Big Board. Player they think is #1 all the way down to 400 or what ever. Using what ever parameters they feel is significant. GM gets final word.

I'm sure they adjust it daily as they interview players, observe more film, or issues come up. Suspect the first 2 rounds are fairly simple with all the well know players. AS they get to the mid rounds is where they really earn their money. Guys like Spence or Wentz are a problem, having played in FCS. Or Jaylon Smith who a lot of people are saying has to be red shirted because his injury was late in the season. Might be a lot of arguing and discussion on them.

On draft day it should be fairly simple. When they pick #51 who ever is next up is the pick. I suppose a lot of players are in groups closely scored together. That's where the banging on the table, or need comes into play. Or trade considerations. Is this guy worth moving up or down for? Or if you have taken LB'ers with the last two picks, and a LB'er is Bap with your 3rd pick you might want to reconsider. lol

For the most part if the GM and the scouts are any good , you wind up with a good draft. You may still need a RB at the end of the draft because no RB's were top of the list when you picked each time. That's when you open Woody's wallet up and pay some one, if you haven't already done that before the draft.

As far as a guy like Mo goes, i think that decision flat comes down to money. We want this guy back, but here's all we are willing to pay. He won't settle for that. Well, he's gone, what's the best deal we can get for him? In all honesty I think the tag and trade on Mo was decided last year when the Jets had tons of money, said he was top priory, and nothing got done.

 

[Mainejet]

I'm just sick and tired of constantly seeing weaknesses with this team. Every year I look at this team and see weaknesses that may or may not ruin the season. For once in my life I would love to be able to look at this team and think we've got it all covered. We not only have a mixture of very good players with some decent players, but we all also have depth just in case some of our starters go down.

I don't believe I've ever seen that with this team. I don't believe it's ever existed with this franchise.

As I recall in recent years, going into the 2010 season was about as confident as I've ever been. But even then, I saw some things that could become issues. We lacked decent depth and our QB was a big question mark. Of course, that's the two biggest things - there were others.

It really goes down hill from there. 2005? OMG, this team was SO lacking in talent, we just sucked. 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014? What in the f*cking world did we have to look forward to in those seasons? We hadn't a prayer in any one of those seasons. What I thought was truly amazing was the 2013 Jets going 8-8. That was honest to goodness a 3-13 team the way I saw it.

Today? The weaknesses go something like.... WR, OL, LB, RB, FB, and this all the while being able to hold on to the talent that got us where we stand today. And we know that'll never happen, so by this time next year, we'll be talking about another set of glaring weaknesses and major concerns about keeping certain players that ultimately leave anyway.

This team a does a sh*tty job of holding on to talent. That's a problem.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

With the lead up to the super bowl focusing on the two strong defensive teams, broncos and panthers, and being a copy cat league, how should we approach acquiring next year's talent?

The Jets already had a record number of 1st rounders on the defensive side of the ball, including one getting dropped on his but in coples. I also heard a fact that I hasn't realized, all of tom Bradys super bowls came when new England's defense shined. Which makes sense, they're historic offense lead them to an undefeated season, but couldn't best the Giants defense.

I'm wondering, should we continue working towards a dominant nfl defense with depth and a manageable offense, or should we seek balance?

Personally, I'm leaning towards addressing 1 spot on the o line and rb, otherwise defensively improving olb,ilb,cb,and safety.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

When your options are limited at QB, you help the QB who gives you the best chance the security and weapons he needs. Offensively, Fitzpatrick is our best option for next season. We're not going to find anything better in FA, or the draft. Kaepernick isn't coming here, and none of the top QB's is pro-ready enough to be better than Fitz. With that said, I believe Marshall and Decker have proven to be very solid in terms of weapons. Devin Smith gets a rookie year mulligan, and despite what some fans have concluded about Amaro, I think Gailey will find a productive role for him next year as a receiving option at TE. That basically leaves RB (assuming Ivory leaves) and OL depth. We need to prepare for the immediate future at tackle. That's why I advocate taking a player like Conklin from Michigan State, or Taylor Decker from Ohio State.

If an edge rusher is available at #20, great. But ultimately, Macc has made it clear that the BPA will be taken. I believe it's the right approach. Even if it's another d-lineman....UGH!!

 

[LGM]

Best strategy for the Jets offseason


1. Waive Geno Smith and get him out of Florham Park

2. Let Mac work his magic in replacing some expensive dead wood like Pace, Cumberland and Colon and filling some holes in FA

3. Then let Mac work his BPA magic in the April draft

Then start the season

 

[Bigmoe]

Best strategy for the Jets offseason


1. Waive Geno Smith and get him out of Florham Park

2. Let Mac work his magic in replacing some expensive dead wood like Pace, Cumberland and Colon and filling some holes in FA

3. Then let Mac work his BPA magic in the April draft

Then start the season

Sounds like we need a lot of magic

 

[isired]

Every team has weaknesses, and lacks depth in certain areas. In the salary cap era, you have to make decisions that you know will weaken you in an area of the game, and hope to use the benefits gained there (= cap money saved) in another area that hopefully improves the team overall. Maybe they cut a veteran RB with a high cap number and sign or draft another with a lower number, knowing they might lose production and maybe a couple of touchdowns, but use that money to resign their OLB and sign a DT that they feel will make them more than a couple of TDs better on defense. Obviously, they have to be correct in their assessments as well.

Winning in this league today is about improving your sum total on the balance sheet, and getting lucky - hoping that the few areas where you've developed and allowed yourself some quality depth are the only areas that you end up needing it. The Broncos were not all-world this season. But they planned well at QB, and were able to get by with Manning being out, and go on a run in the playoffs AT HOME. But they had weaknesses. They were 14th in Passing, 17th in Rushing, both behind the Jets. Their D was tops in yards, 4th in points, but they were -4, tied for 19th in turnover differential. That's not an all-time great regular season team. Nobody was even calling their D all-time great until the postseason.

I'm not saying we don't need to improve overall, but we're not as far as some think. We need some improvement, some luck, and a good run in January to get us where we want to be.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

Every team has weaknesses, and lacks depth in certain areas. In the salary cap era, you have to make decisions that you know will weaken you in an area of the game, and hope to use the benefits gained there (= cap money saved) in another area that hopefully improves the team overall. Maybe they cut a veteran RB with a high cap number and sign or draft another with a lower number, knowing they might lose production and maybe a couple of touchdowns, but use that money to resign their OLB and sign a DT that they feel will make them more than a couple of TDs better on defense. Obviously, they have to be correct in their assessments as well.

Winning in this league today is about improving your sum total on the balance sheet, and getting lucky - hoping that the few areas where you've developed and allowed yourself some quality depth are the only areas that you end up needing it. The Broncos were not all-world this season. But they planned well at QB, and were able to get by with Manning being out, and go on a run in the playoffs AT HOME. But they had weaknesses. They were 14th in Passing, 17th in Rushing, both behind the Jets. Their D was tops in yards, 4th in points, but they were -4, tied for 19th in turnover differential. That's not an all-time great regular season team. Nobody was even calling their D all-time great until the postseason.

I'm not saying we don't need to improve overall, but we're not as far as some think. We need some improvement, some luck, and a good run in January to get us where we want to be.

It's an interesting point, and good post BTW.

Denver looked very ordinary at several points throughout the season, especially offensively. I agree that part of the playoffs is getting on a roll at the right time, and having a mostly healthy roster. Their defense played out of their minds in the SB. Their defense made up their minds what they were gonna do, and had their way with Carolina's offensive line. I laughed at all the media (Freeman at CBS) who said "this game isn't going to be competitive. Cam is going to go right through them".

Uh...so much for that. I think the Jets had enough talent to reach the SB if they had squeezed in. I really do. Maccagnan needs to have another good offseason with the draft and FA, and the Jets will be poised for another shot next season.

 

[mykcuz]

It's an interesting point, and good post BTW.

Denver looked very ordinary at several points throughout the season, especially offensively. I agree that part of the playoffs is getting on a roll at the right time, and having a mostly healthy roster. Their defense played out of their minds in the SB. Their defense made up their minds what they were gonna do, and had their way with Carolina's offensive line. I laughed at all the media (Freeman at CBS) who said "this game isn't going to be competitive. Cam is going to go right through them".

Uh...so much for that. I think the Jets had enough talent to reach the SB if they had squeezed in. I really do. Maccagnan needs to have another good offseason with the draft and FA, and the Jets will be poised for another shot next season.

If you remember the last 3 weeks of the season, the Jets could have knocked Denver completely out of the playoffs.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[isired]

Maccagnan needs to have another good offseason with the draft and FA, and the Jets will be poised for another shot next season.

i think he'll do a good job filling in the holes. My biggest concern is, yet again, QB. I don't think we can count on Fitz staying healthy enough to play 16 games... And I don't have too much faith that Petty will be ready to guide our offense for a significant part of the season and/or playoffs. And I think I may have even less faith in Geno, even if he's still here.