Does the rationale for Fitz make sense?

[Green Jets & Ham]

So what is the rationale?

Fitz gives us the best chance to win games, therefore he won't be pulled until we are mathematically eliminated.

True or False?

It depends on who the veteran is and who the neophyte is.

If the veteran is a good player, then yeah, he gives you a better chance to win. But if the veteran sucks and the neophyte has more talent, however raw, you don't automatically assume he gives you the best chance to win.

I just watched the Yankees piss their season away based on the same false premise. For months Yankee fans on the board where I post were begging the Yankees to cut bait with the aging veterans (Arod, Tex, et al.) and bring up the baby bombers, and for months Yankees management insisted we have to ride with the veterans because they give us the best chance to win, and we are not ready to concede the season. Finally the veterans dug such a deep hole that it all seemed lost, so management made the transition to a youth movement, and guess what happened?

THEY STARTED WINNING!!!

I mean they actually dug themselves out of that hole and put the team in the race in September and October. Ultimately they fell short because the hole was too deep, but if they had made the transition a month or so sooner, when Yankee fans were begging them to make the transition, the Yankees might have made the playoffs this year.

So in short, the Yankees operated on the false premise that veterans give you a better chance to win, but the opposite was true, the neophytes gave them a better chance to win, because the veterans were over the hill and the neophytes were simply more talented, especially Gary Sanchez who was a beast. Sanchez alone could have put them in the playoffs if he was called up in April or May instead of August. So the conventional wisdom is nonsense, it all depends on the players, its not always one or the other.

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Fitz gives us the best chance to beat shit teams. We are losing to the Pats twice and we can do that with either Hack or Petty.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Fitz gives us the best chance to beat shit teams.

Thats fair to say, his track record verses tomato cans is pretty good, but he can't beat good teams. Thats why he's been good enough to play in the league for over a decade, even start in a few places, but he's never led a team to the post season and he never sticks in one place very long. Eventually teams figure out he can only take you so far, but he can never compete with the big boys and get you to the next level. So basically if Fitz is your QB, you are just spinning your wheels.

Last year was his career year, and still with the post season on the line, verses an eliminated team, he spit the bit.

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Fitz just has no arm strength. He is one of the most limited QB's to play the game.

 

[lounap23]

Fitz just has no arm strength. He is one of the most limited QB's to play the game.

He missed about 4 throws in the first half because he doesn't have the are to throw outside the numbers past 10 yds down field

 

[jets82]

Fitz is FUCKING HORRIBLE and needs to be benched AT ALL COST. Your analogy of this thread is right on point. Fitz is the veteran but he is not more talented then the younger QBs (including Geno). I'm not even quite sure he's smarter then the other QBs (including Geno). He's washed up and was never really good to began with. He's average at best and we should be able to at least get that out of our other QBs (including Geno).

So now that Geno is hurt for the rest of the year and he wasn't going to be our future anyway, it's time to move on to Petty or Hack. Fitz stats were somewhere in the area of 18-33 for bearly 200 yards against the Browns. Hack or Petty could have done that. When the Jets lose to the Pats both times this year and Fitz stinks it up, the Jets could lose to them with Petty or Hack also. When the Jets lose about 3-4 more games coming up with the horrible ass Fitzgarbage, the Jets could do that with Petty or Hack also.

So what's the point of playing Fitz and how does he give us the best chance to win? I just don't see how some Jets fans and this CS thinks he's the best option for us and he's not. If the Jets aren't going to win no more then 6-7 games this year with Fitz, then how is Fitz the best option for us? We can lose 9-10 games with anyone of the other QBs. Truth be told, if any of our other QBs can't do at least what F-ints-Patrick is doing this year, then we have a real big problem.

Yes Fitz had a career year last year but look how long it took him to have that year. Look at how many teams he's played for. Fitz isn't more talented then any QB we have, he's more experienced but his experience doesn't make him better or the best option for this team to win. Look at it this way, last year Fitz was the scheduled back-up and Geno was the starter until jawbreak gate. Fitz only got the job because of Geno's injury or he must likely would have sitting all damn year last year.

This year he loses the job because of his performance and gets it back, only because of injury to Geno once again. This tells me that Fitz isn't the best option for the team and wouldn't be playing period if Geno could just stay healthy. I feel like Fitz is holding our team hostage now because he is not the best option for our team. The CS doesn't want to see it that way because their either idiots, they want to justify the money or Petty and Hack really aren't better the Fitz and if that's the case, we are in REAL HUGE TROUBLE!!!

 

[mykcuz]

Fitz is FUCKING HORRIBLE and needs to be benched AT ALL COST. Your analogy of this thread is right on point. Fitz is the veteran but he is not more talented then the younger QBs (including Geno). I'm not eve quite sure he's smarter then the other QBs (including Geno). He's washed up and was never really good to began with. He's average at best and we should be able to at least get that out of our other QBs (including Geno).

So now that Geno is hurt for the rest of the year and he wasn't going to be our future anyway, it's time to move on to Petty or Hack. Fitz stats were somewhere in the area of 18-33 for bearly 200 yards against the Browns. Hack or Petty could have done that. When the Jets lose to the Pats both times this year and Fitz stinks it up, the Jets could lose to them with Petty or Hack also. When the Jets lose about 3-4 more games coming up with the horrible ass Fitzgarbage, the Jets could do that with Petty or Hack also.

So what's the point of playing Fitz and how does he give us the best chance to win? I just don't see how some Jets fans and this CS thinks he's the best option for us and he's not. If the Jets aren't going to win no more then 6-7 games this year with Fitz, then how is Fitz the best option for us? We can lose 9-10 games with anyone of the other QBs. Truth be told, if any of our other QBs can't do at least what F-ints-Patrick is doing this year, then we have a real big problem.

Yes Fitz had a career year last year but look how long it took him to have that year. Look at how many teams he's played for. Fitz isn't more talented then any QB we have, he's more experienced but his experience doesn't make him better or the best option for this team to win. Look at it this way, last year Fitz was the scheduled back-up and Geno was the starter until jawbreak gate. Fitz only got the job because of Geno's injury or he must likely would have sitting all damn year last year.

This year he loses the job because of his performance and gets it back, only because of injury to Geno once again. This tells me that Fitz isn't the best option for the team and wouldn't be playing period if Geno could just stay healthy. I feel like Fitz is holding our team hostage now because he is not the best option for our team. The CS doesn't want to see it that way because their either idiots, they want to justify the money or Petty and Hack really aren't better the Fitz and if that's the case, we are in REAL HUGE TROUBLE!!!

This line of thinking looks like it makes sense, but it's over simplified and incorrect.
Fitz can be terrible, and can deserve to be benched, but that doesn't mean that's the right choice.

There's a second world that may intersect but is separate, and that's pettys world. Fitz performance doesn't make petty ready to play, and that's what you and others assume. The thought that seeing game reps are always the best option,is flawed.

Bowles, from the Parcells school, most likely is protecting his young QB's by standing strong until they are ready to see the field.

Sanchez had the most prolific start to a career in history,I believe. Do you expect that to continue forever?

What if Sanchez entered the season earlier,struggled, and hit a slump and was labeled a bust? Just because he was ready late,doesn't mean he was ready earlier, or that the results would have been identical.

I think if the kids aren't ready, Fitz will continue to start. If they belive petty is ready in 2 weeks,and Fitz is sucking, Bowles will make the switch. But bad play from Fitz does not equate to good play from petty.

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[Fudbutter]

Guess no one heard Rich Gannon say that Gailey told him that Petty is not ready to play yet and that the NFL game is still way too fast for him

Here's why Fitzpatrick is the least of the evils right now:
Some of us have thousands of dollars of (unsaleable) tickets left this year and want to see wins, no matter how meaningless

 

[mykcuz]

Guess no one heard Rich Gannon say that Gailey told him that Petty is not ready to play yet and that the NFL game is still way too fast for him

Here's why Fitzpatrick is the least of the evils right now:
Some of us have thousands of dollars of (unsaleable) tickets left this year and want to see wins, no matter how meaningless

Did not see that interview, but that's exactly why petty didn't start. He almost saw his first snap yesterday.

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[Green Jets & Ham]

Bowles, from the Parcells school, most likely is protecting his young QB's by standing strong until they are ready to see the field.

Its funny you should say that ...

Paecells has said that one of his biggest regrets as a coach was going to Rick Mirer (the veteran) when Vinny got hurt in 99 and not pulling the trigger on Ray Lucas (the neophyte) until it was too late and Mirer had essentially pissed the season away. Now Lucas was hardly the long term answer to anything, but even Parcells acknowledged that he was a better option in 99 than the veteran, Mirer, and he regrets not having seen it sooner.

IOW's he fell into the 'conventional wisdom' trap that the veteran gives you the better chance to win.

 

[mykcuz]

Its funny you should say that ...

Paecells has said that one of his biggest regrets as a coach was going to Rick Mirer (the veteran) when Vinny got hurt in 99 and not pulling the trigger on Ray Lucas (the neophyte) until it was too late and Mirer had essentially pissed the season away. Now Lucas was hardly the long term answer to anything, but even Parcells acknowledged that he was a better option in 99 than the veteran, Mirer, and he regrets not having seen it sooner.

IOW's he fell into the 'conventional wisdom' trap that the veteran gives you the better chance to win.

Yes, no theory is without limitations. But miss judging Ray Lucas was a judgement error, not a fault with the theory of protecting prospects until they are ready.

I can say driving fast is dangerous, and think I'm driving at a safe speed,and still have an accident. It doesn't invalidate the statement that driving fast is dangerous.

I'm just saying I agree playing a guy too early is a concern, when is too soon requires an informed decision. Something fans aren't capable of since these things are behind closed doors.

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[Green Jets & Ham]

Yes, no theory is without limitations. But miss judging Ray Lucas was a judgement error, not a fault with the theory of protecting prospects until they are ready.

I can say driving fast is dangerous, and think I'm driving at a safe speed,and still have an accident. It doesn't invalidate the statement that driving fast is dangerous.

I'm just saying I agree playing a guy too early is a concern, when is too soon requires an informed decision. Something fans aren't capable of since these things are behind closed doors.

I hear you, the exception to the rule doesn't nullify the rule, I totally agree with that premise, but thats assuming I think the rule makes sense to begin with, and honestly, I don't. I think it used too, back in the days when Todd Bowles was a player and DB's could mug WR's, and pass rushers could take more liberties with QB's (i.e. what are now called late hits and roughing the passer), but in today's NFL which is simply a higher level of arena football with superior athletes, where average QB's are posting the kind of numbers that were reserved only for the elite QB's back in the day, where there are multiple examples of young QB's being thrown into the fire and succeeding, I think the OLD RULES in regards to grooming QB's are a bit antiquated.

I still think growing pains are inevitable for young QB's, just not to the same degree that they once were. Now, if a young QB has any talent, he can have a measure of success early on, his confidence is not going to be destroyed. But of course if he sucks, then he was going to suck if you waited one year or five.

 

[mykcuz]

I hear you, the exception to the rule doesn't nullify the rule, I totally agree with that premise, but thats assuming I think the rule makes sense to begin with, and honestly, I don't. I think it used too, back in the days when Todd Bowles was a player and DB's could mug WR's, and pass rushers could take more liberties with QB's (i.e. what are now called late hits and roughing the passer), but in today's NFL which is simply a higher level of arena football with superior athletes, where average QB's are posting the kind of numbers that were reserved only for the elite QB's back in the day, where there are multiple examples of young QB's being thrown into the fire and succeeding, I think the OLD RULES in regards to grooming QB's are a bit antiquated.

I still think growing pains are inevitable for young QB's, just not to the same degree that they once were. Now, if a young QB has any talent, he can have a measure of success early on, his confidence is not going to be destroyed. But of course if he sucks, then he was going to suck if you waited one year or five.

The Jets chose to draft project QB's, these guys require change to acclimate to the Jets system. I don't know where in that process these guys are. Petty had to make 1 read in college, hack was a complete mess of mechanics which this staff has said they think he needs a full season just to learn proper mechanics.

If petty comes in unprepared and gets destroyed and embarrasses himself, what do we do? Do you think other players in contract years, or who are older, will risk injury for a sinking ship?
You could lose this team and plunge quickly. That could also rob youngsters at other positions of vital learning moments. It's a domino effect, and that can't be overlooked just because we are impatient.

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[Green Jets & Ham]

If petty comes in unprepared and gets destroyed and embarrasses himself, what do we do?

Do you think other players in contract years, or who are older, will risk injury for a sinking ship?

You could lose this team and plunge quickly.

Sometimes you just gotta say, WTF :global (49):

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Joe Namath ‏@RealJoeNamath
Who thinks we should see Bryce Petty start the 2nd half? I know I do.
It hurts to say this, but we're not goin' anywhere with Fitzpatrick.

==

Yeah I know, sometimes Joe says stupid things, like last week when he criticized Geno for not getting back into the game, and it turned out he had a torn ACL, and you can even say he was wrong about YESTERDAY, because we came back and won the game, but if you think he's wrong about that last part, we are not goin' anywhere with Fitzpatrick, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[mykcuz]

Joe Namath ‏@RealJoeNamath
Who thinks we should see Bryce Petty start the 2nd half? I know I do.
It hurts to say this, but we're not goin' anywhere with Fitzpatrick.

==

Yeah I know, sometimes Joe says stupid things, like last week when he criticized Geno for not getting back into the game, and it turned out he had a torn ACL, and you can even say he was wrong about YESTERDAY, because we came back and won the game, but if you think he's wrong about that last part, we are not goin' anywhere with Fitzpatrick, you are sadly mistaken.

The fan base is hungry for a breakout performance and some pride. I agree we need a spark, I just don't blame the staff of petty isn't ready. Risking him longterm just to satisfy the mob is not good policy.
Look at Jay cutler, he has every trait you want, and will be released after this year. You can't ask these guys to do too much, not having the name fitzpatrick isn't the most important thing.

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[jetgreen13]

good, bad, right or wrong, bowles has hitched his wagon on to fitzpatrick..

my guess is nothing short of "7 loses" will be the magic number before we get a chance to see what petty & perhaps hackenberg as well can do..

 

[lounap23]

good, bad, right or wrong, bowles has hitched his wagon on to fitzpatrick..

my guess is nothing short of "7 loses" will be the magic number before we get a chance to see what petty & perhaps hackenberg as well can do..

It's pretty much always been a lock for Petty to play once the team is eliminated from the Playoffs and 7 is for sure the magic number

 

[isired]

Guess no one heard Rich Gannon say that Gailey told him that Petty is not ready to play yet and that the NFL game is still way too fast for him

Charlie Casserly said the same thing on Pat Kirwan's show Friday.

 

[soj]

Charlie Casserly said the same thing on Pat Kirwan's show Friday.

I don't know he looked pretty dam good in pre-season when he outplayed all the QBs on this team! THis is BS, as the other posters have expressed, they believe they still have a chance... but really the way this team plays, I don't see how they realistically believe that....