Most of you may not agree!

skop

The Green Knight
Jet Fanatics
Zach looked bad...No Doubt...No Excuses. But to say he didn't have three strikes against him needs to get called out! 1- Oline Blocking Schemes 2.) Personnel Packages are dramatically different & 3.) better calls for coverages.

a.) if anything, LaFleur is burning the tape of Zach's games bc he was calling plays that were doomed to fail; this offense is a throw it where they ain't offense, and ML couldn't see that he was actually telling Zach (figuratively) to throw it where they are...all levels all receivers all checkdowns were F'd on most occasions. Dont' be fooled by "the" someone who was open "at the end" of a Zach Fire Drill at The Expense of Oline.

b.) McG & GVR are both POS for throwing Zach under the bus. They didn't have enough courage to take their veteran @$$e$ up to ML's office and say "tone it down on us with the blocking schemes; we're underwater, and can't get up for air". The Oline coach and ML finally figured that out over the last couple of games. Zach was trying to execute doomed plays while trying to stay calm under constant fire. Mike has a cohesive unit executing simpler blocking details.

c.) for the first time in a long time, we actually have a decent WR Core. but in addition to asking the Oline to digest the kitchen sink, ML ran a "12 set" 32% of the time...know why? because the line got indigestion on the kitchen sink, and didn't digest it; they needed the TE's for blocking. Now. ML is running more "10 Sets and 11 Sets" which are getting more WR's in the game and less TE's in the game. Mike and Joe ran more jet sweeps in two games than Zach did in 6. Mike and Joe ran more gadget plays in 2 games than Zach did in 6. Go Figure...more success with better personnel? Who'da thunk it?

Zach's Games = more players playing w/o a shot to get open.
Mike's Game = more players playing who are open.

Zach's Games = Oline not being able to do their jobs because of too much complexity too soon.
Mike's Game = ML & Oline Coach simplifying the scheme so they have an easier time working together.

Zach's Games = ML calling the wrong the plays for the coverages.
Mike's Game = ML calling plays to throw it where they ain't.


boy...I wonder if White Benefitted From That?... SARCASM ALERT!!!
 

skop

The Green Knight
Jet Fanatics
I am a big Wilson supporter, but I admit that this is turning into a better situation for him. The team and coaching staff, offense that is, is growing up before our eyes. That and Wilson being witness to it can only benefit the kid. If he figures out to be patient and take what the defense is giving him, and to speed up his clock, the sky's the limit. We still need some pieces on the offense (OL, RB and TE), but things are progressing and there is no need to rush the rookie QB. The defense is another thing altogether...

totally agree... If White is performing at a decent to high level, much can be gleaned from White, the way that White gleaned a ton from Zach's time on the field.

here's where the rubber meets the road: Zach is fearless, and has the confidence to take what the defense gives him when they don't think they are giving it... i.e., timing routes, outside the number routes, and routes over 15 yards in the air. Nope, many times they aren't "Chad Pennington Dink and Dunk Gimmee's" to pad the completion %, but they are available.

Full Disclosure...I loved Chad as my QB!!

We finally have a QB who can grow into the type of QB that we were treated to at the end of their careers like Vinny & Fitz, so we can see many years of it.
 

Tinstar

Mr. Know it All
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I once knew of a really tall guy who sucked at basketball even though someone faced him a huge contract . Just because a QB can throw a football a country mile doesn’t guarantee that he will have success. He had that same arm at BYU.
Maybe I missed it but when did BYU last won their conference?
 

skop

The Green Knight
Jet Fanatics
Not really certain where to go with the story about shitty hoops player that financially made out like a bandit, but the BYU Cougars are Independents. Zach would have had a tough winning the ole independent conference (that doesn't exist), even if he did carry them to 11-1; which he did.

the arm is only aspect. being willing to release it before a receiver breaks is another.
watch as many games as you can this weekend, and notice the special ones do it, and the game managers check down.
 

gmf1369

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Here is the questions that you guys can debate on?

Would Zach Wilson performed better with Mike LaFleur up in the booth from the start of the season?
LaFleur wanted to be up there but knew he needed to be on the sideline to communicate with the rookie...
If he was up in the booth like he is now, would the offense produced like they are now?

We don't know... But we also know the offense looks miles a part from when Wilson was under center...
The OL is finally coming together, The Run game is producing and the receivers are making plays...

So if Mike LaFleur started the season in the booth would this offense be where they are the last couple weeks?
 

Tinstar

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Is being up in the booth going to stop Wilson from bailing out of the pocket instead of orchestrating within it and going through his reads .
He built his reputation as a QB who is best at off schedule plays . Conventional offenses are ran inside the pocket with the ability to make the occasional play off scheduled . Opie is upside down and in this offense that’s a problem.
What might be an even bigger problem is he’s not athletic enough to do what he’s best at on the NFL level.
If Mike White can continue his stellar execution of this offense the Jets would be wise to attempt an fleece someone by trading Wilson .
 

gmf1369

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Is being up in the booth going to stop Wilson from bailing out of the pocket instead of orchestrating within it and going through his reads .
He built his reputation as a QB who is best at off schedule plays . Conventional offenses are ran inside the pocket with the ability to make the occasional play off scheduled . Opie is upside down and in this offense that’s a problem.
What might be an even bigger problem is he’s not athletic enough to do what he’s best at on the NFL level.
If Mike White can continue his stellar execution of this offense the Jets would be wise to attempt an fleece someone by trading Wilson .
dunno after one game of him balling out like he did in first game with LaFleur in the booth can jot down notes of what he saw from above and make those corrections...

who knows?
 

Tinstar

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dunno after one game of him balling out like he did in first game with LaFleur in the booth can jot down notes of what he saw from above and make those corrections...

who knows?
And this is why I wanted Wilson to be back under center. The problem is that if he continues to stink up the joint his value will diminish.
Best case is Wilson balls out and we either keep White on a decent contract or cash in on his new found value.
 

skop

The Green Knight
Jet Fanatics
Here is the questions that you guys can debate on?

Would Zach Wilson performed better with Mike LaFleur up in the booth from the start of the season?
LaFleur wanted to be up there but knew he needed to be on the sideline to communicate with the rookie...
If he was up in the booth like he is now, would the offense produced like they are now?

We don't know... But we also know the offense looks miles a part from when Wilson was under center...
The OL is finally coming together, The Run game is producing and the receivers are making plays...

So if Mike LaFleur started the season in the booth would this offense be where they are the last couple weeks?

IMO, the simple answer is yes, but that would mean that Knapp was still alive and the QB Coach/passing Coordinator.
TBH, i didn't realize that it was Zach who asked ML to be on the sidelines without Knapp's presence...he wound up shooting himself in the foot.
 

gmf1369

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Knapp was hired to be the QB Coach after his death they hired Matt Cavanaugh to be the offensive assistant to LaFleur not the QB coach that is why when Zach approached the front office about Beck they didn't just hire him two weeks later he was brought in then hired not just for Wilson but the entire QB room...

But, yes LaFleur shot himself in the foot by not doing what he wanted was be in the booth...

Could of things been different, yes but it is what it is and now we go from here...

Mike White is the QB until Zach in practice can prove he is ready to take the reigns... BUT if Mike continues his hot performance then the smart move is stay with the Hot QB otherwise risk of losing the locker room./roster...
 

skop

The Green Knight
Jet Fanatics
Is being up in the booth going to stop Wilson from bailing out of the pocket instead of orchestrating within it and going through his reads .
He built his reputation as a QB who is best at off schedule plays . Conventional offenses are ran inside the pocket with the ability to make the occasional play off scheduled . Opie is upside down and in this offense that’s a problem.
What might be an even bigger problem is he’s not athletic enough to do what he’s best at on the NFL level.
If Mike White can continue his stellar execution of this offense the Jets would be wise to attempt an fleece someone by trading Wilson .

Zach is nimble in the pocket, and athletic enough to scramble for a first every now and again. But he is a pocket passer "who can" deliver with different arm angles and on the run. When did he become a Vick wannabe? When was he ever?

If you look at most of his completions, he is in the pocket...and not looking to go anywhere.

Yes, he has moved outside of the pocket for self preservation and to extend plays that would otherwise be blown up, but the Oline corrections/simplifications didn't occur until his injury. The Oline is more competent now in both the passing game and the running game since his injury, and ML is calling a different game, and the numbers prove it...

1.) before Zach went down, 32% of the time, they ran a "12" set ( 1RB 2TE),
since Mike became the starter, the 12 has only been run 18% of the plays called.

2.) before Zach went down, they ran a "10" set (1RB 0TE) set 1% of the time, now it's up to 13%.

I am as happy as a lark for White, and if he's the man, i am loving the story!!! but you mentioned his "stellar execution" of the offense, and i caution all to be wise to ditching a QB who isn't afraid to throw receivers open, throw outside the numbers, and throw timing routes in favor of one who is more willing to only take the gimmees...those lanes lead to traffic jams.

there are the Tom Brady's and Roethlisberger's of the league who did the latter and grew into the former.
But there are way more McNair's and Cousins out there whose aperture of the field grow more myopic the more they play.
 
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skop

The Green Knight
Jet Fanatics
Knapp was hired to be the QB Coach after his death they hired Matt Cavanaugh to be the offensive assistant to LaFleur not the QB coach that is why when Zach approached the front office about Beck they didn't just hire him two weeks later he was brought in then hired not just for Wilson but the entire QB room...

But, yes LaFleur shot himself in the foot by not doing what he wanted was be in the booth...

Could of things been different, yes but it is what it is and now we go from here...

Mike White is the QB until Zach in practice can prove he is ready to take the reigns... BUT if Mike continues his hot performance then the smart move is stay with the Hot QB otherwise risk of losing the locker room./roster...

I think bringing in Beck is fantastic for all involved.
ML wasn't the only one who shot himself in the foot by not being in the booth; Zach did too for asking him to remain on the sidelines. .

If Mike stays hot then Zach can learn, and i have no issues with #5 riding out the season as the starter. But i have a feeling, we are seeing "the ole back-up saw what the starter didn't" scenario in conjunction with the rookie OC making small in nature, but monumental in efficacy changes.

if this gets to be a practice duel, I think Zach beats him like a drum and never looks back... ala' Aikman and Walsh.
 
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gmf1369

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Go away boy you bothering me ,Now listen here son , I say are you listening to me here boy
chicken-jokes-puns.gif
 

Tinstar

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Here’s what I know for certain. With 1 QB we couldn’t move the ball consistently. With 2 others, the ball is being spread out all over the field and the offense looks like an NFL. Offense .
I find it interesting that the two guys who are moving the ball up and down the field have been in the league multiple years and been around good offenses and the other is a rookie learning as he goes .
I’m not bashing Wilson, just stating the obvious .
 

gmf1369

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Here’s what I know for certain. With 1 QB we couldn’t move the ball consistently. With 2 others, the ball is being spread out all over the field and the offense looks like an NFL. Offense .
I find it interesting that the two guys who are moving the ball up and down the field have been in the league multiple years and been around good offenses and the other is a rookie learning as he goes .
I’m not bashing Wilson, just stating the obvious .
Wilson's press conference today he stated he needs to be more like Mike White...

Using the entire field was never his idea he was out there looking to extend the play to hit the homerun or strike out that was his mentality...

Could blame the coaches for allowing it to go on as long as it did...

Could blame the kid for not utilizing all the potential weapons at his disposal...

Can he overcome this, sure but he will first have to prove he can complete the short passes with proper touch or zip...

Repetition in practice, understanding his time will come but for now the best thing for the team is to run with Mike White...
 
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