New quarterback trade possibility

[Green Jets & Ham]

I keep reading the whoa would be us if we had him as we forget who he has been throwing to...what great WRs has he led to the super bowl? Doug Baldwin? Seriously?

Who is that other QB making run after run after run to the SB with no WRs (Wilson has never had WRs, so having no cap room to sign them won't be new to him)...oh yeah...that Brady guy...

Thats true, he's done this without a legit # 1 WR. What he's had is more like a collection of 2's and 3's. Pretty Good WR's, but nobody who would even get a sniff of the Pro Bowl. It is Brady'esque in that regard.

 

[Superman55]

Which is why I don't want the Jets doing it. If the Jets are going to have the highest paid QB, I want one of the best QBs. I don't want the Jets to pay great money for good players.

But I also don't go around saying how I'm right about everything, and people who have a different opinion than mine are stupid. Standing up to your faux intellectual bullying is a far cry from name-calling.

You have every right to argue that Wilson is worth the money. I disagree, but I don't call you stupid for having your opinion. But when you belittle people for holding a different opinion than you, I have no issue calling you out on it. That is my right. And it's my right to point out when you misquote people and put words in their mouths, like you frequently do here.

Honest question, as Romo, Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Big Ben, and Eli sun set out of the NFL...you don't have Wilson amongst the young QBs after Luck to replace those names...you don't see him top 5? Would you want Wilson, Mariota, or Winston leading your organization?

I'm sure we both agree we'd take Wilson over Kaepernick, DAlton, and Tannehill...but how many under 27 QBs not named Luck would you take ahead of Wilson?

I have a hard time not seeing him top 2-5 by 28...like most of those names were not top 5 until 26-28...

 

[SackExchange]

We will never get a shot at him. No team will (because every NFL GM knows he's worth every cent, he'll, would you even be worried about him playing in NYC vs the media or the super high expectations? No. Because his character and family and religious and military background is so impressive). If not for height, he'd be considered amongst the best QBs in the league.

In 3 years if we looked back on this thread we'd say, we thought 25 mill/year was too much for a 26 year old Brady/Montana type? As we all watch the 29 year okd sure hall of famer in the playoffs again, and again, and again.

I keep reading the whoa would be usif we had him as we forget who he has been throwing to...what great WRs has he led to the super bowl? Doug Baldwin? Seriously?

Who is that other QB making run after run after run to the SB with no WRs (Wilson has never had WRs, so having no cap room to sign them won't be new to him)...oh yeah...that Brady guy...

Woe.

And I would be very surprised if Wilson is the next Brady or Montana, which is what you alluded to here. What if Bryce Petty was, and the Jets dealt him away for a pretty good Russell Wilson?

 

[mykcuz]

Where did you get this rumor? Is there any link?

Radio interview with their beat reporter, could be posturing as is common, but Seattle has 7 starters on the year of their deals. This is always the hardest part of sustaining a championship team.
The Seahawks have to decide to pay a bunch of role players or keep their qb.
Wilson is not elite, but it's hard to find a qb who can do everything you need consistently without talking about the high Paid guys.

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[mykcuz]

Did I understand right?

Mo Wilkerson; Ryan Fitapatrick; Bryce Petty & next year's # 1 pick for Wilson? Is this correct?

No, that's my guess at what we would need to give based on the rumors.
Estimates put a Wilson trade at the level of the rg3 trade.

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[Superman55]

Woe.

And I would be very surprised if Wilson is the next Brady or Montana, which is what you alluded to here. What if Bryce Petty was, and the Jets dealt him away for a pretty good Russell Wilson?

Wilson emerged as a starter at his rookie camp and led Seattle as a rookie to the playoffs (including a road play off win and rookie playoff QBR of 104). I hope petty is the next Wilson since we won't be getting him.

 

[SackExchange]

Honest question, as Romo, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, and Eli sun set out of the NFL...you don't have Wilson amongst the young QBs after Luck to replace those names...you don't see him top 5? Would you want Wilson, Mariota, or Winston leading your organization?

I'm sure we both agree we'd take Wilson over Kaepernick, DAlton, and Tannehill...but how many under 27 QBs not named Luck would you take ahead of Wilson?

I have a hard time not seeing him top 2-5 by 28...like most of those names were not top 5 until 26-28...

I'd take Wilson over those other guys, Dalton, CK, and Tannehill. But I also think not every guy you mentioned is at the same point in his career. Ben and Rivers are only 33. It's not like they're P. Manning, entering their last year or two.

And you don't know what you have yet in Winston or Mariota, so I can't answer that question. Maybe you have clairvoyance, but I do not. Wilson could be a top 3-5 in a few years. Or he might not be.

 

[Superman55]

No, that's my guess at what we would need to give based on the rumors.
Estimates put a Wilson trade at the level of the rg3 trade.

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Whoa, Fitzpatrick and Petty = 1st rd pick value?

Rg3 was traded for 3 1s and 2 2nd rd picks...you'd have to throw in another 1 and 2 to make it = to the RG3 trade.

If we could trade Fitz and Petty for a 1st rd pick, get that deal done.

 

[Jetsfanatic]

No, that's my guess at what we would need to give based on the rumors.
Estimates put a Wilson trade at the level of the rg3 trade.

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Ok, thanks for the clarification.

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[Green Jets & Ham]

Honest question, as Romo, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, and Eli sun set out of the NFL...you don't have Wilson amongst the young QBs after Luck to replace those names...you don't see him top 5?

Would you want Wilson, Mariota, or Winston leading your organization?

I'm sure we both agree we'd take Wilson over Kaepernick, Dalton, and Tannehill...but how many under 27 QBs not named Luck would you take ahead of Wilson?

I would take Wilson over all of those guys and Cam Newton too.

Now there may be some QB's in next years draft who I would take ahead of Wilson. I'm still not sure, but its possible that by the end of the college season we could be talking about this as one of the best QB classes in decades, but of the 27 & UNDER QB's who are in the league right now, I only have Luck and Stafford ahead of Wilson, and Stafford is a close call, you can go Wilson on that one and get no argument from me.

 

[SackExchange]

Wilson emerged as a starter at his rookie camp and led Seattle as a rookie to the playoffs (including a road play off win and rookie playoff QBR of 104). I hope petty is the next Wilson since we won't be getting him.

I hope he is, too. It is MUCH easier to draft a franchise QB, develop him, and THEN figure out how to pay him than it is to trade a mint for a franchise QB, and still pay him a ton. That's why such trades are so rare.

If Wilson is the next Brady or Montana, it doesn't matter, because a team like Seattle isn't dealing him. If he's dealt, it's because they don't think he is the next Brady or Montana. So I'm not sure it matters either way.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

i would take wilson over romo and stafford, and possibly even rivers.

wilson is a winner. romo and stafford haven't won squat. romo is 35 years old and has 2 career playoff wins. stafford is 27 years old and has only played in 2 playoff games (both losses)

they may put up better fantasy football numbers, but if i'm building a team, i'm taking wilson over them. i understand wilson has been on a better team, but if those guys are so good, they should have been able to elevate their teams at least once in all these years.

as to rivers, his age would be a factor. for the short-term, i think it's a toss-up, and probably lean towards rivers. but if we are talking about building the jets for the future (hyopthetically of course, as i don't think either are realistically available), i'm taking wilson.

I can't argue with that. Too me all of the guys you discussed are in that next tier, right below the elites, but they're all in that next tier together, so anyway someone ranks that group would get no argument from me. You want to put Wilson ahead of Romo and Stafford, I'm fine with that and you might be right.

 

[Superman55]

I hope he is, too. It is MUCH easier to draft a franchise QB, develop him, and THEN figure out how to pay him than it is to trade a mint for a franchise QB, and still pay him a ton. That's why such trades are so rare.

If Wilson is the next Brady or Montana, it doesn't matter, because a team like Seattle isn't dealing him. If he's dealt, it's because they don't think he is the next Brady or Montana. So I'm not sure it matters either way.

It doesn't...and they won't move him. Just like the rivers conversation 3 months ago. Once you even think you have a franchise QB, you lock them up. Every team does. I don't even remember the last free agent franchise QB...Manning coming off spinal surgery or Brees off his second shoulder surgery? Maybe I'm forgetting someone...but there's a reason it is so rare.

 

[mykcuz]

Whoa, Fitzpatrick and Petty = 1st rd pick value?

Rg3 was traded for 3 1s and 2 2nd rd picks...you'd have to throw in another 1 and 2 to make it = to the RG3 trade.

If we could trade Fitz and Petty for a 1st rd pick, get that deal done.

Not what I said, that's what they'd be looking for, my proposal meets both teams needs and is middle ground.
Seattle isn't giving up this season, so t they would want a serviceable qb,which they may or may not view ftz as. Maybe they feel their d is good enough with him. If they like Bryce, that gives them a future. We can't afford mo and a qb, so we send him to an elite d where he instantly gets a sb run, and Seattle gets him for 7 mill as a rental and can franchise him next year. And we have to give up at least 1 1st rounder. I don't see this management team giving up the farm.

We accept that mo is gone if we don't pay him, and we can't pay him and a top qb at the same time, and we accept that we can't win a super bowl without a top qb.
The trade gives us a young experienced talented qb that can win. We get more balance, and I think Wilson to our receivers works very well.
We basically trade mo and his salary for Williams and transfer that money to a rare opportunity.

Further, Wilson comes to a team that is no threat to Seattle, and has a similar makeup to Seattle.

Also to complicate Seattle's decision, the rumor on an LA team is for 2016. And the league office rumors suggest an Oakland move would include switching leagues with Seattle. So they can't risk a trade to the nfc or afc east.
Further eliminate teams that can't make the numbers work or have a qb they like, and it's basically a5 team competition, if Seattle were to seriously entertain the idea.

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[SackExchange]

It doesn't...and they won't move him. Just like the rivers conversation 3 months ago. Once you even think you have a franchise QB, you lock them up. Every team does. I don't even remember the last free agent franchise QB...Manning coming off spinal surgery or Brees off his second shoulder surgery? Maybe I'm forgetting someone...but there's a reason it is so rare.

You're right, young fella.

And despite the attack which it seems you deleted, it is far more safe to project someone will be top 5 when they are already there, than it is to presume that they will become top five. Hence, Aaron Rodgers is a more likely bet to be a top 5 QB in three years than Russell Wilson is.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

I hope he is, too. It is MUCH easier to draft a franchise QB, develop him, and THEN figure out how to pay him than it is to trade a mint for a franchise QB, and still pay him a ton. That's why such trades are so rare.

If Wilson is the next Brady or Montana, it doesn't matter, because a team like Seattle isn't dealing him. If he's dealt, it's because they don't think he is the next Brady or Montana. So I'm not sure it matters either way.

I don't think these trades are rare because teams are unwilling to pay the exorbitant price to trade for a FQB, and then cough up the mega contract too. Most any team that doesn't have a FQB would bite the bullet and pay thru the wazoo to get one. The reason these trades so rarely happen is the second part of your equation, when a team gets that caliber QB you ordinarily have to put a loaded pistol to that GM's head to pry that QB away, provided they see him as a FQB too.

As for it being easier to draft and develop a FQB, thats a tough sell to Jets fans, because we've basically been looking for another Namath since Namath, and thats over forty years of looking and drafting and developing.

You'd have a much easier time convincing those busted-ass Colts fans who just went from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck.

I'm sure they see this thing as a breeze, and frankly it makes me hate them.

 

[SackExchange]

Not what I said, that's what they'd be looking for, my proposal meets both teams needs and is middle ground.
Seattle isn't giving up this season, so t they would want a serviceable qb,which they may or may not view ftz as. Maybe they feel their d is good enough with him. If they like Bryce, that gives them a future. We can't afford mo and a qb, so we send him to an elite d where he instantly gets a sb run, and Seattle gets him for 7 mill as a rental and can franchise him next year. And we have to give up at least 1 1st rounder. I don't see this management team giving up the farm.

We accept that mo is gone if we don't pay him, and we can't pay him and a top qb at the same time, and we accept that we can't win a super bowl without a top qb.
The trade gives us a young experienced talented qb that can win. We get more balance, and I think Wilson to our receivers works very well.
We basically trade mo and his salary for Williams and transfer that money to a rare opportunity.

Further, Wilson comes to a team that is no threat to Seattle, and has a similar makeup to Seattle.

Also to complicate Seattle's decision, the rumor on an LA team is for 2016. And the league office rumors suggest an Oakland move would include switching leagues with Seattle. So they can't risk a trade to the nfc or afc east.
Further eliminate teams that can't make the numbers work or have a qb they like, and it's basically a5 team competition, if Seattle were to seriously entertain the idea.

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Seattle doesn't take that offer. The Rams got more for RG3, and Wilson is a proven commodity with a ring and two SB appearances.

More concerning is the money, though. I am troubled by Wilson wanting top QB money, and I think it just perpetuates the current cycle of QBs being so important in the market than good (not great) QBs merit top dollar. Flacco for one, but Alex Smith and Tannehill also point to that problem. Flacco's better than those guys, but I would not say he's great. He gets great money, though.

 

[Superman55]

You're right, young fella.

And despite the attack which it seems you deleted, it is far more safe to project someone will be top 5 when they are already there, than it is to presume that they will become top five. Hence, Aaron Rodgers is a more likely bet to be a top 5 QB in three years than Russell Wilson is.

I was worried you may confirm firmness and ruin my day.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

It doesn't...and they won't move him. Just like the rivers conversation 3 months ago. Once you even think you have a franchise QB, you lock them up. Every team does. I don't even remember the last free agent franchise QB...Manning coming off spinal surgery or Brees off his second shoulder surgery? Maybe I'm forgetting someone...but there's a reason it is so rare.

The most egregious was Atlanta trading a young Brett Favre to Green Bay, and why, because they already have an established QB (name escapes me) who was pretty good at the time, but nowhere's near elite, and because Favre was an uber-talented knucklehead who liked to party too much, probably not unlike Manziel.

The part about that that really pisses me off is we loved Brett Favre in that draft class. Ron Wolf, who later traded for Favre as the Packers GM, worked for the Jets at the time and Favre was the # 1 player in the entire draft on his board, and all of our decision-makers felt likewise. Unfortunately we didn't have a first round pick in that draft. We spent it in the supplemental draft on WR Rob Moore. So we thought we had no shot at Favre. When he fell to the second round the Jets were salivating, and word has it they tried to trade up but to no avail, then they watched in horror as Atlanta traded directly ahead of them in RD 2 and took Favre ... then we settled for the immortal Browning Nagle instead.

Why that pisses me off, besides the obvious, is the SOB Falcons leap us for Favre, then trade him away to Green Bay?

Thats the part that really pissed me off.

 

[SackExchange]

I was worried you may confirm firmness and ruin my day.

No. I'm not one of those people who is convinced I'm always right.

I hate that.