QB question for Jets fans ...

[jetfrantik]

Your remarks on the 2 Heisman QB's in this year's draft are a breath of fresh air.

Here are some more remarks of fresh air on the "other quarterback," on 1-30-15 by Ham. " Also, this has to be said because we're talking
about the 6th pick here." "Nothing can be left unsaid." "Winston sounds like a functional illiterate when he speaks, it's scary." "I don't know
very many dumb QB's who excel in the NFL. Which makes this whole mock draft silly.

 

[Superman55]

I hope both are taken before #6 . I'm just not sold on either of them. I would love to get a top WR.

Bruce Arians and Mike Mayock said it best yesterday, spread quarterbacks arent true quarterbacks. Bruce Arians said yesterday he wouldn't draft a spread QB to become a franchise QB...and Mayock agreed with him.

 

[Superman55]

Your right on the money. It's obvious those who have bought into the smear campaign of Winston.

Winston is going #1 . Lovie and Tampa have said nothing but glowing things about him for a reason. There is no mystery they are head over heels in love with Winston, for better or worse...

 

[Superman55]

I agree that Mariota is a risky proposition. Winston is going to be big time player, period

Winston is as much of a sure thing as RG3...both love themselves more than the game. I like football players that love football. Winston loves himself, then football. Same problem rg3 has.

 

[jetgreen13]

Here are some more remarks of fresh air on the "other quarterback," on 1-30-15 by Ham. " Also, this has to be said because we're talking
about the 6th pick here." "Nothing can be left unsaid." "Winston sounds like a functional illiterate when he speaks, it's scary." "I don't know
very many dumb QB's who excel in the NFL. Which makes this whole mock draft silly.

maybe so but the kid had i believe a 4.0 GPA in high school & a 3.5 at florida state.. oh & recruited by stanford as well.. speach patterns notwithstanding..

 

[Jet Fan RI]

Here are some more remarks of fresh air on the "other quarterback," on 1-30-15 by Ham. " Also, this has to be said because we're talking
about the 6th pick here." "Nothing can be left unsaid." "Winston sounds like a functional illiterate when he speaks, it's scary." "I don't know
very many dumb QB's who excel in the NFL. Which makes this whole mock draft silly.

i don't know if you are just trying to be sarcastic, but for the very reason that dumb QB's are unlikely to succeed in the NFL, Winston may very well drop to the Jets at 6. In that case, the mock draft shows that the Jets very well may have an opportunity to draft him, or to pass on him. So why do you say the mock draft is silly?

 

[jetfrantik]

maybe so but the kid had i believe a 4.0 GPA in high school & a 3.5 at florida state.. oh & recruited by stanford as well.. speach patterns notwithstanding..

I feel Winston is a blue chip top prospect in any draft. I was simply pointing out how silly Hams mock draft is by
some of the statements he has made about Winston.

 

[jetfrantik]

i don't know if you are just trying to be sarcastic, but for the very reason that dumb QB's are unlikely to succeed in the NFL, Winston may very well drop to the Jets at 6. In that case, the mock draft shows that the Jets very well may have an opportunity to draft him, or to pass on him. So why do you say the mock draft is silly?

I quoted some of the remarks Ham made above already about Winston in a thread made 1-30-15 by Ham. Are you saying you feel Winston is to dumb to play in the NFL as well?
Not sure by your post.

 

[jetgreen13]

I feel Winston is a blue chip top prospect in any draft. I was simply pointing out how silly Hams mock draft is by
some of the statements he has made about Winston.

understood.. winston is a good example of a person being quite book smart without being articulate..

 

[Jet Fan RI]

I quoted some of the remarks Ham made above already about Winston in a thread made 1-30-15 by Ham. Are you saying you feel Winston is to dumb to play in the NFL as well?
Not sure by your post.

I really have no opinion about Winston's mental capabilities. I was just responding to your statement that the mock draft was silly. Based on the Ham quote you cited, the mock draft is consistent with it. Perhaps you meant the statement you quoted was silly. And you also feel his mock draft is silly. But the silliness of the mock, if that is what you think it is, does not follow from what you quoted.

Now, even though I have no opinion on Winston's smarts, my opinion is that the Jets shouldn't take either him or Mariota. In my judgment, the nearly 100% failure rate of Heisman QB's in the NFL is too much to ignore.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

Let me ask you guys a question ...

If Mariota and/or Winston were viewed as "elite" QB prospects, would either one of them get past Tennessee with the second pick?

I happen to like Zach Mettenberger, I wanted the Jets to draft him, but would Mettenberger preclude me from drafting, oh say, Andrew Luck when he came out of Stanford?

HELL. NO.

If you agree with that, assuming Tampa takes one of the QB's at #1 as expected, then you must agree that Tennessee will take the other guy at #2 , or we're not talking about a truly elite QB prospect here.

My point is, I think these guys, BOTH OF THEM, are getting pushed up the board due exclusively to their positional value, because teams need franchise QB's in this league and they will naturally over-rank anyone who has a chance, JUST A CHANCE, to be a franchise QB ... if they don't already have one.

IMO thats whats happening here with both QB's who have flaws out the wazoo, and thats why I think it would be a colossal mistake to take either one of them at #6 , cause that will mean passing on a truly elite prospect at WR or edge rusher; Kevin White, Amari Cooper, Dante Fowler, Randy Gregory, Shane Ray, one or more of these guys WILL be on the board for the Jets, at least one or two who are legit elite prospects in any draft and by anyones measure, so if you can't say the same about the QB's, IMO its a mistake to leave these guys on the board and reach for an overrated QB prospect out of desperation. This is the same mistake we made with Mark Sanchez, over-ranked him based on positional value and over-drafted him (4, 5 or 6?) because we were acting out of desperation.

Thoughts?

You nailed it. It's QB hype. I think both Winston and Mariota are good prospects, and both could be franchise QB's in the right system. But yes, they're projected so high because of the premium put on that position.

Every draft pick carries some risk. It's just that a select few carry minimal risk. Andrew Luck was a slam dunk in my mind. I thought that back when he was at Stanford. But those players are few and far between.

Regarding Mariota or Winston, I'd be ok taking either one. But I acknowledge they're both overvalued because of the desperation that 2/3 of all teams have in finding their Saviour.

 

[Savage69]

Winston is as much of a sure thing as RG3...both love themselves more than the game. I like football players that love football. Winston loves himself, then football. Same problem rg3 has.

You didn't like cuddly Cumar??

 

[jetgreen13]

You didn't like cuddly Cumar??

one doesn't have to "love" their job/career to excel at it..

martin is a perfect example..

LOLz it does help though!!

 

[Christa]

I hope both are taken before #6 . I'm just not sold on either of them. I would love to get a top WR.

Same here! I'm with you on that! Would love to have that dynamic game changer at WR.

 

[NYJETSDAN16]

Why do you think Petty is a "perfect fit" for Gailey's offense?

Petty ran a spread offense at Baylor. The guy is as gritty as they come. He processes information fast and has an excellent completion percentage. Doesn't turn the ball often, something Coach Bowles has stressed about especially during the combine presser:

[video]http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/Todd-Bowles-Combine-Press-Conference/8da1abb1-6e73-40da-b462-5b08ffbfe89e[/video]

 

[hobson54]

Let me ask you guys a question ...

If Mariota and/or Winston were viewed as "elite" QB prospects, would either one of them get past Tennessee with the second pick?

I happen to like Zach Mettenberger, I wanted the Jets to draft him, but would Mettenberger preclude me from drafting, oh say, Andrew Luck when he came out of Stanford?

HELL. NO.

If you agree with that, assuming Tampa takes one of the QB's at #1 as expected, then you must agree that Tennessee will take the other guy at #2 , or we're not talking about a truly elite QB prospect here.

My point is, I think these guys, BOTH OF THEM, are getting pushed up the board due exclusively to their positional value, because teams need franchise QB's in this league and they will naturally over-rank anyone who has a chance, JUST A CHANCE, to be a franchise QB ... if they don't already have one.

IMO thats whats happening here with both QB's who have flaws out the wazoo, and thats why I think it would be a colossal mistake to take either one of them at #6 , cause that will mean passing on a truly elite prospect at WR or edge rusher; Kevin White, Amari Cooper, Dante Fowler, Randy Gregory, Shane Ray, one or more of these guys WILL be on the board for the Jets, at least one or two who are legit elite prospects in any draft and by anyones measure, so if you can't say the same about the QB's, IMO its a mistake to leave these guys on the board and reach for an overrated QB prospect out of desperation. This is the same mistake we made with Mark Sanchez, over-ranked him based on positional value and over-drafted him (4, 5 or 6?) because we were acting out of desperation.

Thoughts?

would you not take matt ryan because the dolphins (with chad henne, john beck and josh mccown) and rams (with marc bulger and trent green) passed on him to take jake and chris long, respectively?

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Here are some more remarks of fresh air on the "other quarterback," on 1-30-15 by Ham. " Also, this has to be said because we're talking
about the 6th pick here." "Nothing can be left unsaid." "Winston sounds like a functional illiterate when he speaks, it's scary." "I don't know
very many dumb QB's who excel in the NFL. Which makes this whole mock draft silly.

If you create the impression that you're stupid with the way you speak, then most people are going to assume you are stupid. Call it unfair and say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but the image you portray to the world matters. If you're articulate and make an effort to improve your vocabulary, people will assume you are smart. If you speak like the V-Jay on Sucka Free TV, people will assume you are dumb. Neither has to be true and Winston is clearly a lot smarter than he lets on, but IMO he does a heck of a job at impersonating an illiterate and thats on him, not me.

Its like if you walk into a job interview tat'ed up, don't be surprised if the interviewer assumes you're a shady character and gives someone else the job, even if you're a choirboy in your real life. The image you portray to people matters.

Oh and if you are going to paste my prior posts, why didn't you paste this one too, which came after the quotes you posted, as in, just last night. Because it didn't fit the narrative you're trying to create?

I have to admit that white-board segment on NFLN with Mooch was pretty darn impressive.

There's no way I could have remembered all that and played it back to Mooch with such ease.

Don't you think that would have added a little more context?

Don't you think that suggests I have an open mind and my opinion of his intelligence may have changed?

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Bruce Arians and Mike Mayock said it best yesterday, spread quarterbacks arent true quarterbacks. Bruce Arians said yesterday he wouldn't draft a spread QB to become a franchise QB...and Mayock agreed with him.

And that's what scares me about Mariota. We already have a spread QB.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

would you not take matt ryan because the dolphins (with chad henne, john beck and josh mccown) and rams (with marc bulger and trent green) passed on him to take jake and chris long, respectively?

Good point, hobson, and I think its fair to suggest Winston and/or Mariota are the equals of Matt Ryan as a QB prospect when he was coming out of BC, but I honestly didn't view Ryan as an elite QB prospect either. I felt he was good, but not elite, and thats the only point I'm making here, if he's elite there's no way those teams pass on him, they only passed on him because they felt he was a good QB prospect, but not an elite QB prospect. Of course you can make mistakes too, I mean look at all the teams that passed on Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, and yes, Tom Brady (ugh!), but those were miss evaluations in the opposite direction, I'm talking about QB's who get pushed up the board due to positional value, those guys are not sliding past anyone because they were under-appreciated. They are sliding by teams (if they do), because they are viewed as good QB prospects, like Ryan which is a good example and a good argument for taking Winston or Mariota if one slides to the Jets, but not elite QB prospects. Thats why I have a hard time getting excited about either one of them for the Jets. I wouldn't hate the pick, but I wouldn't be over the moon about it either.

 

[hobson54]

Good point, hobson, and I think its fair to suggest Winston and/or Mariota are the equals of Matt Ryan as a QB prospect when he was coming out of BC, but I honestly didn't view Ryan as an elite QB prospect either. I felt he was good, but not elite, and thats the only point I'm making here, if he's elite there's no way those teams pass on him, they only passed on him because they felt he was a good QB prospect, but not an elite QB prospect. Of course you can make mistakes too, I mean look at all the teams that passed on Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, and yes, Tom Brady (ugh!), but those were miss evaluations in the opposite direction, I'm talking about QB's who get pushed up the board due to positional value, those guys are not sliding past anyone because they were under-appreciated. They are sliding by teams (if they do), because they are viewed as good QB prospects, like Ryan which is a good example and a good argument to taking Winston or Mariota if one slides to the Jets, but not elite QB prospects. Thats why I have a hard time getting excited about either one of them for the Jets. I wouldn't hate the pick, but I wouldn't be over the moon about it either.

but how many elite QB prospects have there been in the last few years? or the last decade? an andrew luck or peyton manning comes around once every blue moon.

you can't just wait for an elite QB to come out, and hope you really suck the year before to grab him (suck for luck worked out great for the colts, but is hardly a game plan a team can rely on).

personally i'm not sold on either QB, so i won't be lighting the torches if they do pass on one or both. but if macc and his scouts think either can be a franchise (call it top 10 QB), then they should take him.