The Jets select Christian Hackenberg with the 51st pick
- Thread starter gmf1369
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tough call...
Petty has to get out of his own way be fearless in the pocket...
Hackenberg has to get back to the basics, before he can take the next step forward...
Both have potential, whereas Petty has the advantage working in a system in college similar to what Gailey runs here... Then again, Hackenberg has better pocket awareness to build upon...
Either way it is up to them on who wants and who takes it...
All I remember last year was "he needs 2-3 years to adjust to the pro game" whereas with this kid its "he needs 2-3 years to get his game back".
While I'll gladly take success from either/both, my amateur opinion puts greater odds on the latter . . .
To some degree, Gailey's system is one of the closest to what is run so often in college. Hackenberg has a more traditional pro skill set, whereas Petty may have a bit more of an advantage because Gailey's system is somewhat spread-friendly. If anything, I'd say Gailey's system is in the gray area between college spread sets and standard pro sets.
watched the gruden show with him - I'm starting to believe that the problem was coach, scheme and team in SO and JR years. Showed lots of skills and tools and performance freshman year
if nothing else, should do a great job of running scout team in prep for Pats!
if nothing else, should do a great job of running scout team in prep for Pats!
I got the same feeling from watching that show. Honestly, Gruden looked pissed off "AT FRANKLIN" for what he did to this kids mechanics. One coach is never going to directly attack another coach, it violates the unsigned agreement of the coaching fraternity, but IMO that whole segment about Hack's mechanics regressing was an indirect shot at Franklin, BY GRUDEN, who seemed personally offended by the mess he created, almost like a good, ethical surgeon would be personally offended by some butcher who needlessly harmed one of his patients.
You gotta remember, Gruden was a bit of a QB Guru himself back in the day, when he was coming thru the ranks as an assistant, he had a reputation for working with QB's even if he wasn't officially the QB Coach in title, so he understands mechanics and he knew, BECAUSE HE HAS A TRAINED EYE, that Hack's mechanics got screwed up by an incompetent coach, it didn't just happen organically, thats the point Gruden was getting at and it was like he wouldn't get off the point until Hack admitted he was "doing what he was told", i.e. just following orders, but IMO Gruden knew that already from looking at the tape, from looking at the regression, and that was his way of calling Franklin out. Also, Franklin did nothing to protect the kid, if the O-line was that bad he should have used more max protections, not get the kid killed with 103 SACKS!!! IMO thats on Franklin too. If your son is a QB you'd be crazy to send him to PSU.
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I'm with you 100% here. You can tell Hack didn't want to throw his college HC under the bus but Gruden kept asking so he said what he could without being to direct. Seemed to me like Gruden wanted Hack to express how he felt about Obrien leaving and he kept it simply aswell with that answer. The kid is smart and a team player. A leader and seems tough as nails. I like his pocket presence and pause. Even his second and third year you could see he wasn't all out of sorts and panicking out there. He still was hanging in there and taking his licks while trying to throw his passes.
They say he was sacked 80 times and hit I think 105 more, if I'm correct his 2nd and 3rd. Could you fucking imagine what that must feel like. DAMN! I would be seeing ghost and throwing shit out of bounds left and right also. Even in that he didn't throw his teammates under the bus, he kept his answer short and sweet there also. This kid has got moxie and may just have that it factor quality which we haven't had since Chad Pennington. May not have even had it this much in Chad because Chad couldn't throw like this kid can. So we may have to go all the way back to Broadway Joe. Would be real nice if this kid turns out for us. We need a franchise QB bad. Only time will tell.
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Mac is doing the right thing. He's building the O-Line for one of these two young studs to be properly bring their skill set to the forefront. 2013, Hack had a "Good" line. He demonstrated what he can become. From 2014-2015, his o-Line allowed 103 sacks. Then some wonder why his production dropped. Poor kid was the Ken O'brien of those years. Being a good player, people destroyed him while over looking what the true issues were.
Inside Christian Hackenberg's Exhaustive NFL Prep: "He's a Slam Dunk"
From January through mid-March, Christian Hackenberg’s introduction to the NFL would begin every morning at 5:30 at Jordan Palmer’s Southern California home.
Palmer, an eight-year NFL veteran, spent 2 ½ months preparing Hackenberg for life in the pros, which Palmer says the 21-year-old the Jets selected in the second round on Friday is ready for.
“He’s going to be confident enough to be the face of the franchise for the Jets when that time comes for him,” Palmer said. “In the meantime, he’s going to be a guy that’s going to get in line and learn and be humble. I think it’s a great fit.”
Palmer met Hackenberg at an Elite 11 camp when Hackenberg was in high school. He watched his college career at Penn State, where Hackenberg was a star under Bill O’Brien as a freshman then struggled as NCAA sanctions took their toll on the Nittany Lions’ roster and the transition from O’Brien to James Franklin stunted Hackenberg’s growth.
Palmer worked with Hackenberg last year before his junior year then took on a more official role after Hackenberg left college in January to prepare for the NFL. They started by watching every college snap Hackenberg took and dissected what went right and wrong.
“There’s a franchise player in there,” Palmer said. “He showed it his freshman year and he was put in a very difficult situation the last two years. The first thing is pulling that out.”
The Jets took North Carolina State cornerback Juston Burris in the fourth round Saturday and tackle Brandon Shell from South Carolina in the fifth round, a pick they traded for with Washington. All of the attention still was on their second-round pick, though, because of how polarizing the Hackenberg pick is.
Hackenberg’s mechanics suffered at Penn State as he played behind a porous offensive line that got him sacked 103 times. He began to look at the pass rush instead of downfield and had trouble setting his feet without getting hit.
There were plenty of reasons for his struggles, but Hackenberg had to sit back and listen to the critics pick him apart in the pre-draft process. He could not blame the offensive line or Franklin without sounding like he was making excuses and shifting the blame.
All he could do was take it.
“He’s just been a dartboard for three months,” Palmer said. “Now, all of that is irrelevant. He’s a Jet.”
Hackenberg rented a house down the street from Palmer and they began to work a week after his college career ended. They would do classroom work in the morning, then go to the field after breakfast. After lunch, Hackenberg would work with a personal trainer, then he would have 3-5 hours of film study at night.
Palmer had Hackenberg watch film like NFL quarterbacks do. They adopted the Cardinals, where Palmer’s brother Carson is the quarterback. As the Cardinals prepared for playoff games with the Packers and Panthers, Hackenberg watched each team’s last five games on Monday, their base pressures on Tuesday, sub-package pressures on Wednesday, third-down calls on Thursday and red-zone situations on Friday. Before the game, Hackenberg would compare notes with Carson.
“We literally knew more about the game than anybody watching it,” Jordan said.
After the Cardinals lost in the NFC Championship game, they broke down the Broncos before the Super Bowl. Then they studied the 2015 seasons of Carson and Jacksonville’s Blake Bortles and the rookie season of the Colts’ Andrew Luck. Hackenberg would have to give Jordan Palmer a report every morning off his film study, and Palmer would try to teach him about the coverages he did not recognize.
“He’s just obsessed with football,” Palmer said. “He loves it. I think it’s a slam dunk. For me, all this negative stuff is hysterical to me because so many people are so wrong.”
Palmer said all of the issues Hackenberg has dealt with in college makes him ready for New York.
“To have to deal with the amount of adversity he dealt with, he is well-equipped to take on you and your colleagues and the fan base and AFC East, too,” Palmer said. “He is in a good position to do that.”
From January through mid-March, Christian Hackenberg’s introduction to the NFL would begin every morning at 5:30 at Jordan Palmer’s Southern California home.
Palmer, an eight-year NFL veteran, spent 2 ½ months preparing Hackenberg for life in the pros, which Palmer says the 21-year-old the Jets selected in the second round on Friday is ready for.
“He’s going to be confident enough to be the face of the franchise for the Jets when that time comes for him,” Palmer said. “In the meantime, he’s going to be a guy that’s going to get in line and learn and be humble. I think it’s a great fit.”
Palmer met Hackenberg at an Elite 11 camp when Hackenberg was in high school. He watched his college career at Penn State, where Hackenberg was a star under Bill O’Brien as a freshman then struggled as NCAA sanctions took their toll on the Nittany Lions’ roster and the transition from O’Brien to James Franklin stunted Hackenberg’s growth.
Palmer worked with Hackenberg last year before his junior year then took on a more official role after Hackenberg left college in January to prepare for the NFL. They started by watching every college snap Hackenberg took and dissected what went right and wrong.
“There’s a franchise player in there,” Palmer said. “He showed it his freshman year and he was put in a very difficult situation the last two years. The first thing is pulling that out.”
The Jets took North Carolina State cornerback Juston Burris in the fourth round Saturday and tackle Brandon Shell from South Carolina in the fifth round, a pick they traded for with Washington. All of the attention still was on their second-round pick, though, because of how polarizing the Hackenberg pick is.
Hackenberg’s mechanics suffered at Penn State as he played behind a porous offensive line that got him sacked 103 times. He began to look at the pass rush instead of downfield and had trouble setting his feet without getting hit.
There were plenty of reasons for his struggles, but Hackenberg had to sit back and listen to the critics pick him apart in the pre-draft process. He could not blame the offensive line or Franklin without sounding like he was making excuses and shifting the blame.
All he could do was take it.
“He’s just been a dartboard for three months,” Palmer said. “Now, all of that is irrelevant. He’s a Jet.”
Hackenberg rented a house down the street from Palmer and they began to work a week after his college career ended. They would do classroom work in the morning, then go to the field after breakfast. After lunch, Hackenberg would work with a personal trainer, then he would have 3-5 hours of film study at night.
Palmer had Hackenberg watch film like NFL quarterbacks do. They adopted the Cardinals, where Palmer’s brother Carson is the quarterback. As the Cardinals prepared for playoff games with the Packers and Panthers, Hackenberg watched each team’s last five games on Monday, their base pressures on Tuesday, sub-package pressures on Wednesday, third-down calls on Thursday and red-zone situations on Friday. Before the game, Hackenberg would compare notes with Carson.
“We literally knew more about the game than anybody watching it,” Jordan said.
After the Cardinals lost in the NFC Championship game, they broke down the Broncos before the Super Bowl. Then they studied the 2015 seasons of Carson and Jacksonville’s Blake Bortles and the rookie season of the Colts’ Andrew Luck. Hackenberg would have to give Jordan Palmer a report every morning off his film study, and Palmer would try to teach him about the coverages he did not recognize.
“He’s just obsessed with football,” Palmer said. “He loves it. I think it’s a slam dunk. For me, all this negative stuff is hysterical to me because so many people are so wrong.”
Palmer said all of the issues Hackenberg has dealt with in college makes him ready for New York.
“To have to deal with the amount of adversity he dealt with, he is well-equipped to take on you and your colleagues and the fan base and AFC East, too,” Palmer said. “He is in a good position to do that.”
I don't want to argue with you, but isn't the common complaint that Macc ISN'T doing enough to rebuild the line?
Of course Clady's growth is integral, but Mangold is on the downward curve, Winters is serviceable but DEFINITELY upgradeable, and Breno should have one foot out the door already.
I think we have enough to get through this year, and perhaps next January we're commenting on how much our depth players have improved. Otherwise I'm hoping for a HEAVY influx of OL talent (draft or otherwise) to truly put either kid in the best position to succeed . . .
Mangold is getting up there, but he's still got another solid 5-6 years left.
Winters upped his game tremendously from year one.
Clady is 100% at full strength
Carpenter is a Mauler and an excellent overall LG
Breno i agree with you. Though thats why Shell was drafted. Obviously Mac sees something special in him to trade away next years 4rth. So far Mike has been very good at addressing our needs. If Mac is right on Shell, then our O-line is set for our Future QB to slide right in and get the adequate protection for years to come.
I hope you're right -- we saw what a mediocre Sanchez could do when surrounded with talent. Do you feel the following front 5 are comparable?
(young) Ferguson -- Clady
Faneca -- Carpenter
(young) Mangold -- (old) Mangold
Moore -- Winters
Woody -- Breno
I'm not saying our OL is "porous", but I am a big believer in strengthening the trenches so unless/until our future OL rivals the one we had in the AAFCCGs, I want to see it considered a priority under this regime . . .
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Absolutley. I feel like this regime is slowley addressing the O-Line. I like the fact that Mac didn't wait until the draft to replace D'Brick.
Think of it, most of Fitz's success came from the time allotted for him to throw to his targets.
This year i feel during training camp we will know who can be solid in possibly making a name for themselves on the O-Line:
Dakota Dozier
Brent Qvale
Jarvis Harrison
Wesley Johnson
Ben Iljana
I'll even place Shell in the mix, but of course he might get a pass his rookie year.
Check out who the guy "Idolizes"
I won't pretend to know what it's like to get clobbered 100+ times over a 24 month period, but there were things that came "naturally" to him as an 18 yo (how else would you explain his ability to successfully run a pro-style offense after barely graduating high school?) Do we really think it should take YEARS to get that stuff back? It's not like we need Gailey to teach him something he doesn't already know (like Petty) -- we just need to resurrect ability he already has -- ability many QBs NEVER acquire no matter how hard they try.
Am I being optimistic? Of course -- why not?! But I still think there's objective logic in there somewhere . . .
Am I being optimistic? Of course -- why not?! But I still think there's objective logic in there somewhere . . .
You're right, he's way more advanced than Petty was when we drafted him. He has a very high football IQ and he basically ran the Patriots offense his freshman year for O'Brien, so he's already been in a pro set offense and he excelled at it, thats when he was being called a potential #1 Overall Pick, then the decline took place under Franklin and he should be arrested for what he did to this kid, not only in messing up his mechanics, but any coach who allows his QB to get sacked a hundred times and hit a hundred more should never get within a hundred miles of another head coaching job at any level. If your O-line isn't good enough to NOT get your QB killed, then you go to max protections, you do what you have to do, but you DO NOT let your QB get hit that much, what he did to this kid is criminal.
My fear for Hack is not the mechanics, I KNOW Gailey can fix that, like you said, its not like he has to learn the proper mechanics from scratch, he already had solid mechanics before Franklin changed his mechanics and had him playing CHUCK & DUCK football, my fear is that he hasn't taken such an enormous beating that his confidence needs to be rebuilt and he's already shell-shocked. Thats my only fear, if he can bounce back from the beating he has taken, he has all the tools to be a franchise QB as a traditional pocket passer.
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Success breeds confidence.
If we can put Hack in a position like we did for Sanchez, there's no reason he can't enjoy similar success (not necessarily AFCCG, but in relation to where Sanchez was as a starter). Things fell apart for Mark once we asked him to take the reins, but it sounds like this kid has a bit more talent (and backbone), so maybe we'll get it right this time . . .
:69_g:
Physically Hack is way superior to Mark Sanchez.
Taller, thicker, stronger and has a much stronger arm.
If you simply judge their measurables, its no contest, but your larger point (early success) has real merit, this is a TOP 5 defense so he doesn't have to carry the load. We have a nice stable of RB's too, but the O-line is suspect. We'll see how it goes, but I wouldn't rule out Hackenberg starting at some point this year, even if its not at the start of the season.