We are losers because our talent evaluation sucks....period

[mykcuz]

Cry babies huh, that's pretty funny! Love you analogy but here's what I think you, other fans may be missing and so is the Jets CS, scouting team and management. There are players that need to develop (most players in fact) and we all know that. There are coaches that need to also but the problem is the Jets just can't seem to ever hit on those players or coaches who don't need that time to develop. Let's just stick to the players for now, the players we draft pretty much always seem to flame out or are average at best. How is any franchise suppose to win when they continuously draft this way?

Yeah, we struck platinum with Revis, Mangold and Dbrick but name another player since then or before then in the 90's that they struck platinum on? Pennington would have been that but injuries wrecked it for him. All the other players IMHO were average to very good players but not powerhouses. We just don't seem to draft a Ray Lewis (1st rounder) or Drew Breez and Big Ben (2nd rounder), Tony Romo (undrafted) or Tom Brady (6th rounder) for example. Get the point??? Teams like the Patriots seem to strike gold to platinum on most of their draft picks, no matter what round they draft them in. Same with teams like the Steelers, Dallas, Green Bay and Seahawks.

This all comes from the scouting teams, CS and management doing exceptional jobs and striking platinum to at least gold on most of their picks. Where as teams like us and the Browns draft players that within 3-4 years, they are not even on the team anymore because they stink. Will that happen with the CS and their draft picks, I don't know of course but Petty and Hack need time to develop and learn. Hopefully it works out and one of them is our guy. While teams like the Cowboys draft Dak (4th round), Colts draft Luck (1st round) and the Seahawks draft R. Wilson (3rd round) and they're playing game 1 in their rookie year (and doing it well).

Maybe it's just the Jets fate I guess but I have a hard time believing that. If other teams can draft these gems whether they are 1st or 6th rounders or sign these undrafted gems, then why can't we do it? I don't think it's just blind luck or all about the scheme of the team helping develop these players. I think it's because these other teams always hire MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER scouting staff, CS and GMs and they seem to be able to find players that have supreme talent. All the schemes or oline or whatever else, helps the players even more ofcourse. That's strictly on Woody and his management team I guess hiring the wrong people.

Note: All I'm saying is, it would be nice for the Jets to hire people that can draft us year one gems to HOFers in whatever round that may be. Or sign us some undrafted gems. Obviously its not impossible to do because quite a few other teams seem to be able to do it. Were just not one of them!!!

If anyone had the answer to your question, there would be more than a handful of teams,out of 32, that could stay so well. The Packers almost exclusively draft their players,very few if any free agents. Patriots,bill is probably the best gm of my lifetime. Pittsburgh,a historic franchise with ownership that knows football. Seattle,well we tried hiring idzik away,and some mediocre players.
Here's the thing,almost every team that wins the super bowl, built their team differently. And every year the league tries to copy the champions blue print.

Yes we have a bad track record,and an owner who was never involved in football before. Some of these owners were conceived at Super bowls, and grew up in football.
My opinion, you need a super bowl capable qb, a line to protect him, a defense that can compliment your offensive style, and some play makers wherever they may play.

Hindsight is 20/20 the whole nfl passed on Wilson,including the Seahawks. Do you think if they really knew how good he would be,that they would have let him hang for 2 rounds and risk someone else picking him? So even they didn't know for sure what kind of player he was. They liked him in the 3rd, and he was available. Same with Brady in the 7th.

This current administration,and any administration,can't be handcuffed because their predecessor sucked.you can't say,hey mac you got 3 years to give me a super bowl or you're fired, because idzik stunk it up, you're on a short leash.

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[BlindsideD'Brick]

This team has missed badly on some high picks, but so have most teams in the NFL. The Jets have had some success in the middle rounds in recent years. Names like Kerley, Winters, Enunwa, Bilal Powell, Slausen, and Leon Washington come to mind. The second round has been probably our worst round. David Harris was a great pick, but beyond that...Kellen Clemens, Vladimir Duccasse, Stephen Hill, Justin Miller, Jace Amaro. Yuck!

 

[soj]

Do Jets fans ever consider it might be a bit premature to judge this current regime's drafts less than two years into their tenure?

QBs can never develop for this franchise because fans expect them to be great right away. Coaches can't develop into legit winners because they are expected to win day one, and even that often isn't enough. GMs have about five minutes with this fan base to build a foundation.

It just seems like the Jets' biggest problems in the most important positions in the organization are all derailed by fans who never let consistency and continuity develop.

Sack, don't be logical ... I mean really the prior two GM are the reason this club has limited talent.... Irrespective of what some posters say, the drafts haven't been terrible... but he better fix the OL proto or like Bowles he will be on the hot seat too.

 

[jets82]

This team has missed badly on some high picks, but so have most teams in the NFL. The Jets have had some success in the middle rounds in recent years. Names like Kerley, Winters, Enunwa, Bilal Powell, Slausen, and Leon Washington come to mind. The second round has been probably our worst round. David Harris was a great pick, but beyond that...Kellen Clemens, Vladimir Duccasse, Stephen Hill, Justin Miller, Jace Amaro. Yuck!

That's just the point. The Jets and other teams seems to always draft players that are alright (average) to good at best. Never really the difference makers and powerhouses. So instead of drafting a player like David Harris, why not draft a player like Khalil Mack, Ray Lewis or Von Miller. Instead of drafting a player like Jeremy Kerley or Bilal Powell. Why not draft a player like Randy Moss, Beckham Jr or A. Brown or L. Bell or B. Sanders. Instead of drafting a Slausen, why not draft a L. Allen or J. Ogden. See the difference? Now I know (trust me I know) we can't draft players like that all the time. They come a dime a dozen but we never seem to. That's the problem here and that's on the scouting team, GM and CS.

 

[Mainejet]

Quite frankly I think Mangini SUCKED as a talent evaluator. What happened to a very good Jets team in 2008? I'll tell you what happened....We had two injuries at important positions and we were immediately finished. Kris Jenkins suffered a back injury and Favre messed up his throwing arm. Mangini could not figure out how to overcome that obstacle. Meanwhile, the very next season Rex came into town and we lost Jenkins after only 3 games for the season. Rex coached up Mike DeVito and Sione Pouha and the defense never lost step. The year prior Mangini still had both DeVito and Pouha on the team and he was unable to fill the void of Jenkins going down.

As far as I am concerned, Mangini sucks.

With that said, I also slightly disagree with your rant about this current front office. Mac has fucked up some stuff for sure, no denying that. Ignoring the OL in the last draft was a dumb shit move. However, he also drafted Leonard Williams and that is a pick that is damn near impossible to argue with. He also took a notoriously bad WR spot and made it one of the most talented areas of the team in two seasons.

So all in all, I think Mac has been OK. Todd Bowles I agree is HORRIBLE. He's the worst HC I have seen in a very long time. Mac giving Bowles a vote of support on Jets nation the other night pissed me off to no end and it makes me think Mac is just as much of a moron as Bowles is.

But my hope is that was just media talk. Mac and Woody CANNOT be so stupid as to not see that Bowles is in way over his head. The product this season is such shit and players are turning on the HC???? Woody and Mac have to realize that change is necessary this offseason. I hope they realize they need to fire Bowles and his entire staff.

From there Woody and Mac should conduct an exhaustive search for the new HC. My hope is that the search ends with them hiring Mike Westhoff as HC...........

 

[McJet]

Here is the reason the Jets aren't any good, plain and simple, first and second round only;
2008 1st rd-Gholston DE D. Keller TE
2009 1st rd-Sanchez QB 2nd- no pick
2010 1st rd-Wilson cb 2nd- Ducasse OL
2011 1st rd-Wilkerson DE 2nd- No pick
2012 1st rd-Coples DE 2nd- Hill WR
2013 1st rd-Miliner CB Richardson DE 2nd rd- Smith QB
2014 1st rd-Pryor S 2nd rd- Amaro TE
2015 1st rd-Williams DE 2nd rd- Smith WR

 

[jets82]

That's just the point. The Jets and other teams seems to always draft players that are alright (average) to good at best. Never really the difference makers and powerhouses. So instead of drafting a player like David Harris, why not draft a player like Khalil Mack, Ray Lewis or Von Miller. Instead of drafting a player like Jeremy Kerley or Bilal Powell. Why not draft a player like Randy Moss, Beckham Jr or A. Brown or L. Bell or B. Sanders. Instead of drafting a Slausen, why not draft a L. Allen or J. Ogden. See the difference? Now I know (trust me I know) we can't draft players like that all the time. They come a dime a dozen but we never seem to. That's the problem here and that's on the scouting team, GM and CS.

Here is the reason the Jets aren't any good, plain and simple, first and second round only;
2008 1st rd-Gholston DE D. Keller TE
2009 1st rd-Sanchez QB 2nd- no pick
2010 1st rd-Wilson cb 2nd- Ducasse OL
2011 1st rd-Wilkerson DE 2nd- No pick
2012 1st rd-Coples DE 2nd- Hill WR
2013 1st rd-Miliner CB Richardson DE 2nd rd- Smith QB
2014 1st rd-Pryor S 2nd rd- Amaro TE
2015 1st rd-Williams DE 2nd rd- Smith WR

Sounds and looks about right. While other teams in those same years drafted players like R. Wilson, D. Prescott, J. Houston, P. Peterson, A. Brown and D. Carr. Notice not all of them are even 1st or 2nd rounders.

 

[TebowCan'tThrow]

They need to follow the Cowboys plan. Draft OL for next three years and then worry about the rest of the team. This team has no leadership which is why a starting QB was punched in the face. I know Geno is at fault but these guys knew what was coming and nobody could stop it. This team is so far away from competing for a SB. They building another dynasty here in Dallas.

 

[NCgreen12]

They need to follow the Cowboys plan. Draft OL for next three years and then worry about the rest of the team. This team has no leadership which is why a starting QB was punched in the face. I know Geno is at fault but these guys knew what was coming and nobody could stop it. This team is so far away from competing for a SB. They building another dynasty here in Dallas.

Couldn't agree more with this strategy and never understood why more GM's don't understand the importance of this. Who knows how many QB's careers and successes were ruined because they got hit so much. Simple stuff in my books. Unfortunately, not one of the better/deeper drafts for top end offensive lineman.

 

[lounap23]

Couldn't agree more with this strategy and never understood why more GM's don't understand the importance of this. Who knows how many QB's careers and successes were ruined because they got hit so much. Simple stuff in my books. Unfortunately, not one of the better/deeper drafts for top end offensive lineman.

We took Mangold and DBrick in the 1st round same year... We built a good OL around a QB. I believe we even drafted the right QB in Sanchez but there is a 3rd ingredient to this formula... the right coaches with the right system.... Sanchez went wrong when we 1. Kept Schotty 2. Let Braylon and Cotchery leave and kept Santonio and signed Mason.. 3. Gotta away from the running game in year 3.... In this order is how you build a team....

1. Right Coaches Right System
2. Build the OL and the DL
3. Find the QB


Remember Jason Garrett looked like toast for several years... the Cowboys stuck to their plan and built to it. and they had Romo...Garrett went 8-8 3 straight years. had a 4-12 year with all the injuries to Romo and Dak last year... I think Stephen Jones knows the improtance of patience with the right coaching staff.... Something a NY team very very rarely has. We did see it with the Giants and Coughlin But I am not sure Woody has the patience to follow this formula.

 

[BlindsideD'Brick]

That's just the point. The Jets and other teams seems to always draft players that are alright (average) to good at best. Never really the difference makers and powerhouses. So instead of drafting a player like David Harris, why not draft a player like Khalil Mack, Ray Lewis or Von Miller. Instead of drafting a player like Jeremy Kerley or Bilal Powell. Why not draft a player like Randy Moss, Beckham Jr or A. Brown or L. Bell or B. Sanders. Instead of drafting a Slausen, why not draft a L. Allen or J. Ogden. See the difference? Now I know (trust me I know) we can't draft players like that all the time. They come a dime a dozen but we never seem to. That's the problem here and that's on the scouting team, GM and CS.

I believe some teams like Pittsburgh and New England just know where to find players who fit their system. Of course it helps to have a franchise QB, and both of these teams gambled and won with two guys who were anything but sure things.

Luck is a big factor, too. And the Jets haven't had much.

 

[lounap23]

I believe some teams like Pittsburgh and New England just know where to find players who fit their system. Of course it helps to have a franchise QB, and both of these teams gambled and won with two guys who were anything but sure things.

Luck is a big factor, too. And the Jets haven't had much.

I think those are the keys... have system and build to it.... and have little luck in finding the Franchise QB for that system

 

[mykcuz]

I think those are the keys... have system and build to it.... and have little luck in finding the Franchise QB for that system

If dak doesn't go to Dallas, he might not look so great. He might not have the ability to improve himself if he's just trying to stay alive. Much like Sanchez when the team decided to move to a high passing offense and neglect the run. They acted like they had Marino on the field. You need to know your players,their limits, their strengths.

I'm all for building a strong o and d line, that looks attractive to possible QB's.

It is complicated in today's world. The Cowboys had Romo and built this line around him. If we build a super line this year,but can't find a good qb fir 3 years, those contracts will start expiring, and they will want big money. Look at Seattle's battle of attrition every year.

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