Ah Oh----Wilkerson no show for OTA's

[hobson54]

Used the [URL=http://nyjetsfanatics.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=6]#6 [/URL] pick as a negotiation tactic rather than improving our overall football roster...

do you really think that the drafted williams as a negotiating tactic? could it not be that as macc said before the draft, they will take the best player available at #6 ?

if the drafted kevin white, would you be supportive of brandon marshall if he skipped mini-camp by wanting more guaranteed money? i mean they would clearly be drafting white as a negotiating tactic, wouldn't they? getting marshall's replacement just weeks after trading for the guy.

 

[Oraelo]

Used the #6 pick as a negotiation tactic rather than improving our overall football roster...

How can taking the consensus non QB best player in the draft not improve the overall roster?

 

[Superman55]

How can taking the consensus non QB best player in the draft not improve the overall roster?

when you already have equivalent talent at that same position who then walks out the door due to the addition...that leads to 0 improvement to the roster...and that's if Williams is as good as Wilkerson...that's TBD.

If you have 26 year old jerry rice, then draft 22 year old Michael Irvin, then you trade Jerry Rice because you added Michael Irvin in the draft...are you really any better now that you have Irvin instead of Rice?

 

[hobson54]

How can taking the consensus non QB best player in the draft not improve the overall roster?

that's easy...because it's not who 55 wanted, ergo it was the wrong move

 

[hobson54]

when you already have equivalent talent at that same position who then walks out the door due to the addition...that leads to 0 improvement to the roster...and that's if Williams is as good as Wilkerson...that's TBD.

wasn't mo skipping voluntary workouts BEFORE the draft? i'm not sure how drafting williams changed mo's tactics and made him "walk out the door" when he was already sitting out the OTAs.

 

[Superman55]

do you really think that the drafted williams as a negotiating tactic? could it not be that as macc said before the draft, they will take the best player available at #6 ?

if the drafted kevin white, would you be supportive of brandon marshall if he skipped mini-camp by wanting more guaranteed money? i mean they would clearly be drafting white as a negotiating tactic, wouldn't they? getting marshall's replacement just weeks after trading for the guy.

Does it matter what Mac says to the media? Did you expect him to say, "We drafted Williams in case we lose Wilkerson." Any chance he would say that even if true?

As for Marshall vs White...Marshall is 33 and Wilkerson is 26...drafting White to eventually replace Marshall makes sense...Marshall is 33. Drafting Williams to replace a 26 year old....seems like a negotiation tactic...

I said the second we drafted Williams this increases the likelihood of losing one of the stud DEs we already had and everyone was up in arms, no way, no way...well, it could happen sooner than later at this rate. I thought we'd get 1 season with all 3...hope we do...

 

[Superman55]

wasn't mo skipping voluntary workouts BEFORE the draft? i'm not sure how drafting williams changed mo's tactics and made him "walk out the door" when he was already sitting out the OTAs.

was he? I honestly dont know. That is a fair point. Can someone confirm? I really dont know.

 

[Superman55]

that's easy...because it's not who 55 wanted, ergo it was the wrong move

hahahaha, yes, because I was so wrong last year at this time...

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

If ford was where they needed him to be, Hali would be on another team right now.

Thats a good point, I didn't consider that, but its a good point, they probably wouldn't have re-signed Hali for 18 million if they felt they could have filled his spot with Ford and saved a ton of cap space.

In that case scrap the Ford idea and focus on Denver and Shane Ray

 

[hobson54]

was he? I honestly dont know. That is a fair point. Can someone confirm? I really dont know.

the draft started april 30. this article is from april 28:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...jets-attracting-trade-interest-multiple-teams


Although standout defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson has been a no-show at the Jets' voluntary offseason workouts, he is very much on the mind of other teams.

At least two teams, and possibly more, have approached the Jets about trading for Wilkerson, a league source told ESPN.

{snip}

When he recently was asked about Wilkerson's situation, new Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan did not sound overly concerned.

"I don't really want to comment on if I'd like him to be here or not be here," Maccagnan said at a news conference. "I'm sure Mo is doing a good job, wherever he is, working out. But again, these are all voluntary, so he's not required to be here for them."

Wilkerson again wasn't at the Jets' workouts Tuesday.

"I haven't spoken to him. Again, [these workouts] are voluntary. I just know that Mo's working out, and I'm sure he's gonna be fine," Bowles said.

 

[Superman55]

Thats a good point, I didn't consider that, but its a good point, they probably wouldn't have re-signed Hali for 18 million if they felt they could have filled his spot with Ford and saved a ton of cap space.

In that case scrap the Ford idea and focus on Denver and Shane Ray

if we got Shane Ray and a 1...I'd think about it. It would be essentially 2 1s for Wilkerson. I'd start there and see if we can pull a 3rd also.

 

[hobson54]

hahahaha, yes, because I was so wrong last year at this time...

you mean when you told us how great pryor was and how amaro was the next witten and even praised mcdougle (although i will note you wanted montcrief in the 3rd)

 

[Superman55]

the draft started april 30. this article is from april 28:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...jets-attracting-trade-interest-multiple-teams


Although standout defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson has been a no-show at the Jets' voluntary offseason workouts, he is very much on the mind of other teams.

At least two teams, and possibly more, have approached the Jets about trading for Wilkerson, a league source told ESPN.

{snip}

When he recently was asked about Wilkerson's situation, new Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan did not sound overly concerned.

"I don't really want to comment on if I'd like him to be here or not be here," Maccagnan said at a news conference. "I'm sure Mo is doing a good job, wherever he is, working out. But again, these are all voluntary, so he's not required to be here for them."

Wilkerson again wasn't at the Jets' workouts Tuesday.

"I haven't spoken to him. Again, [these workouts] are voluntary. I just know that Mo's working out, and I'm sure he's gonna be fine," Bowles said.

you win.

Penn State 35
Michigan 1

 

[Superman55]

you mean when you told us how great pryor was and how amaro was the next witten and even praised mcdougle (although i will note you wanted montcrief in the 3rd)

im going to cry about Moncreif for a long time, BTW. It took me a long time to get over Ed Reed when we took Bryan Thomas too.

 

[hobson54]

you win.

Penn State 35
Michigan 1

actually, that would be

michigan - 915-328-36 (.729 win %)
penn st - 849 - 376-42 (.687 win %)

but thanks for trying

 

[Football51]

Some video footage of Mo training on his own(at least he's wearing a Jets shirt)


http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/05/watch_muhammad_wilkerson_working_out_away_from_jet.html

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

People aren't trading a young starting 10-15 sack a year OLB in May and June. That shipped has sailed.

Super, if you ran the Broncos, why wouldn't you deal Shane Ray for Mo Wilkerson if you had that opportunity?

As I already pointed out, its a nice luxury to have drafted D-Ware's eventual replacement, but here's the problem with that, there's no guarantee Peyton Manning will be suiting up beyond this year, so this may be your last shot to make another run at the Super Bowl with Payton, and in the meantime you have a first round pick who will have a hard time even getting on the field barring injuries. Its similar to KC drafting Dee Ford last year when they already had Houston and Hali. Neither of the two got hurt and missed any games, so Ford played less than 10% of the defensive snaps last year, thats all they got from their first round pick, and the same figures to be true for Shane Ray.

Meanwhile the Broncos can desperately use an upgrade on their D-line and Wilkerson would instantly be the best player they have on the D-line, a borderline all-pro in his prime, who would make life that much easier on Von Miller and Ware. He's a perfect fit for what Denver needs and puts them in a much better position to make a run at the SB in what might be Peyton Manning's final season, but he's only 26 so its also a wise long term solution.

If Wilkerson is going to remain unreasonable (i.e. holdout for JJ Watt money), I think Ray can be had from Denver.

 

[Superman55]

Super, if you ran the Broncos, why wouldn't you deal Shane Ray for Mo Wilkerson if you had that opportunity?

As I already pointed out, its a nice luxury to have drafted D-Ware's eventual replacement, but here's the problem with that, there's no guarantee Peyton Manning will be suiting up beyond this year, so this may be your last shot to make another run at the Super Bowl with Payton, and in the meantime you have a first round pick who will have a hard time even getting on the field barring injuries. Its similar to KC drafting Dee Ford last year when they already had Houston and Hali. Neither of the two got hurt and missed any games, so Ford played less than 10% of the defensive snaps last year, thats all they got from their first round pick, and the same figures to be true for Shane Ray.

Meanwhile the Broncos can desperately use an upgrade on their D-line and Wilkerson would instantly be the best player they have on the D-line, a borderline all-pro in his prime, who would make life that much easier on Von Miller and Ware. He's a perfect fit for what Denver needs and puts them in a much better position to make a run at the SB in what might be Peyton Manning's final season, but he's only 26 so its also a wise long term solution.

The Jets are asking for 2 1s, reportedly, for Wilkerson. It would cost more than Ray...it would be Ray and a future 1. That's steep for a roster that did not make the super bowl and got worse losing most of their oline in free agency.

I wouldnt do the deal because Manning likely retires after this year and they will be in rebuilding mode at this time next year. Cant deal the future picks and they dont have enough on the roster to get the deal done without future picks...unless they move D. Thomas for Wilkerson, im not overly interested...but that's me and im not a Mac...im an OG.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

The Jets are asking for 2 1s, reportedly, for Wilkerson. It would cost more than Ray...it would be Ray and a future 1. That's steep for a roster that did not make the super bowl and got worse losing most of their oline in free agency.

I wouldnt do the deal because Manning likely retires after this year and they will be in rebuilding mode at this time next year. Cant deal the future picks and they dont have enough on the roster to get the deal done without future picks...unless they move D. Thomas for Wilkerson, im not overly interested...but that's me and im not a Mac...im an OG.

See if I'm Elway I would make the trade for Ray and a 2 and I suspect the Jets would make it as well, though I'm all for asking for Ray and a 1 and pretending to hold a hard line on that demand, while secretly knowing I would eventually settle on Ray and a 2 if push comes to shove.

Now here's why I make the trade if I'm Denver:

1. Wilkerson fills a much bigger need.

2. Ray plays a position where it will be hard to even find him defensive snaps this year barring injuries.

3. This may be my last chance to make a SB run with a first ballot HOF QB.

4. Wilkerson is only 25, so its not like I'm trading youth for age, its not just about this year, Wilkerson can also be a foundational player on my D-line.

5. Wilkerson is a proven all-pro caliber player, you never know if the same is true of a draft pick.

6. Ray enters the league under the watchful eye of the drug testing program, one screw up and we're screwed.

That's six good reasons why Denver should make the deal for Ray and a 2

As for why the Jets should do it ...

1. They shouldn't if Wilkerson is prepared to be reasonable and come off his ridiculous JJ Watt demands, and cut the crap with the holdout.

2. That said, if he insists on being unreasonable and having his own agenda, while we have a new HC who is trying to implement his system and get everyone on the same page, then its better to get something of value at a position of need.

3. That said, a stud edge rusher might be the final piece to an absurdly dominant defense that turns Sunday afternoons into hell week for QB's

4. If you think Shane Ray has a chance to be that kind of player, and I do, its a good addition if we can also add another 2nd RD Pick to compensate for the risks we are taking, first because he's unproven, second because of the weed issue. If you make that a 1st RD Pick, even better!

 

[hobson54]

1. They shouldn't if Wilkerson is prepared to be reasonable and come off his ridiculous JJ Watt demands, and cut the crap with the holdout.

i see this repeated over and over that is seems to be taken as gospel, but can you point to where it says mo is asking for jj watt money? while your at it, can you tell me where skipping VOLUNTARY OTAs is considered holding out. when he misses something mandatory, then perhaps we can call it a holdout.